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Sept. 25, 2012
donll
Topic: Associations
Discussion: future of senior softball

Hey Tim,
I like Jawood's idea too. How about all California teams give runs to non California teams . Maybe you could set an example and spot teams 5 next weekend since you have the advantage Jawood talks about. That is if you are really concerned about the growth of the upper division. So what do you say---are you going to walk the walk and give equalizers to non California teams?
Here's your chance to prove you really care about growth. Come on Tim what's your answer? This growth has to start somewhere, how about with you?
Sept. 25, 2012
donll
Topic: Associations
Discussion: future of senior softball

Tim
Most softball growth is from the lower division up. Why aren’t you fixing the AA division? Trying to soften the landing for your eventual bump up.? We’ve been over this before. You already said if the plus champion were removed from the division YOU STILL WOULD NOT PLAY!!! I know it was only about a month ago when you were exposed. Do you think we forgot? You were told that you couldn’t use the “break up the dynasty” argument anymore and have credibility. You are a sandbagger plain and simple and afraid of playing the best. Just remember that whomever wins the 30 team major division really is only playing for 8th place/-Kind of like being the minor league champs of the world=who cares and who knows. Quit whining and step up man.

Sept. 22, 2012
donll
Topic: Rules of the game
Discussion: pick up a player

Taits and Jawood,
I'm not sure of the effect the out of region pick up has on the major plus division, since this is the first year they have had the rule, and they haven't played the World Series yet. I guess Vegas might give some insight to that.

I would however, argue to let Major teams pick up out of region players (although some would argue they can already do this through the snowbird rule). This would make them stronger and enhance the possibility of them making the move to major plus.

Also, I saw that the Coors team out of Illinois is playing in the 50 major world series. I thought they won that a couple of years ago. Did they ever play in the Major Plus World series after that?
Aug. 2, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Swing,
Your reasons are good but actually, a couple of your reasons are the same- like 1 & 5. 1) so few teams 5) more teams. These are the same thing. Also reasons 3 & 4 are really the same things under the fear category. Travel is the same because you would still go to the worlds. Most plus teams play most of their games locally. And as far as reason #6 breaking up your team to compete - adding a couple key players is less disruptive to the whole team that getting rid of half your team when you try to play down again.

I did think of one more reason- the equalizer- having to give runs instead of getting them in your local tournaments. But again that's based in the fear "we can't compete" category.

But I'm still waiting for Tim to give an answer without contradicting himself.
Aug. 2, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Tim Asks- "Maybe you can tell us why teams are not migrating up to Plus ball.....since you believe I am wrong about the Dynasty's being left intact year after year as the major Plus problem."

Answer- Only you might know why you and your team would not move up to the plus division if the dynasty team was removed. But the fact that you said you wouldn't play up given the dynasty team being removed means you cant keep playing your "dynasty theory" tape over and over again. It's not credible even to you.

So, why don't YOU tell us truthfully why you wouldn't move up and remember you can't play the dynasty card.

Your question has already been answered in another post. Possible answers- 1)fear that you can't win, (even though you are only playing for fun) and 2)lack of teams. But those are only guesses since I've never been on a team that broke up to avoid moving up a level. So you would be better qualified to answer the question but remember.....no using the dynasty teams are ruining softball argument since YOU'VE PROVED that's not what is keeping you from moving up.
Aug. 2, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Tim,
When asked if the dynasty team was moved would you play plus against Longhorns , East Bay, OKI and others and you said "NO, you would just play local and avoid the worlds where you may have to play those teams". You've been screaming about the dynasty teams as the reason teams won't play plus -Even you know that's not the reason. You don't want to play any of the plus teams. Do you pay attention to what you sayand see how you contradict yourself? You really have no basis for the "dynasty keeps me from playing" argument, when even you say you wouldn't play if they were moved. You can't make the dynasty argument anymore.

And if you really play softball "just for fun " as you claim then why should you care who wins the tournament? I mean isn't that why you say you can't play plus-because you wouldn't have as good a chance as other existing plus teams? You shouldn't care if the Longhorns were in the same tournament as you. Do you see how you contradict everything you've been saying?
Aug. 1, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Tim,
So let me get this straight. If you remove the dynasty team you still wouldn't play in the major plus tournament-just play your local schedule and skip the worlds. Hmmm????? That sort of sounds counter to your argument that its the dynasty teams that are keeping teams from moving up. You've been screaming forever that the way to make it more "enticing" to major teams to move up is remove the dynasty team-yet even when given that you would not move up? It kinda makes you sound like even you don't believe your argument. How do you expect anyone else to take your argument seriously?
Aug. 1, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

So Tim- You never answered my question what would you do with your team if the 1 dynasty team was moved down to majors. Would you keep your team there or move them up to plus to play the Longhorns, East Bay Oki etc.? Or stay in majors and take the chance that you may or may not see that team?
July 31, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Tim,
Here's a question for you. Lets say SSUSA wanted to follow your logic and move a dynasty team, and they moved them down to major. Just that 1 team. Would you play major or go up to major plus. You could play a bunch of major teams and then maybe only have to face the dynasty team once if you got through the bracket. Or you could go play all the other plus teams in their tournament without the dynasty team. What would you do? What level would you choose?
July 31, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Why remove teams from a Division?

Tim Asks "Why does senior softball remove teams from the AA AAA and MAJOR DIVISIONS when they allow dynasty's to stay intact in plus ball?"

You've had this answered several times and you just don't seem to get it. In no division do they "remove" teams-they MOVE them, either up or down. There is nowhere to go up after major plus. There is nowhere to MOVE them to. So they would have to then "remove" them- something they don't do in any division. I know its not the answer you want-but its consistent. I know you've said several times you want to grow the plus division. If you are taken at your word then you must understand that you don't grow a division by REMOVING teams!Do the math.
July 31, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

Tim,
My guess is not too many plus guys post on here for starters and those that read it see you as nothing more than a Don Quixote like character on a fools quest attacking imagined or misinterpreted events.. . in this case "dynasty's killed the plus division". If only we could get rid of the defending champ then we could compete. That's bs. You whine about having to play the Longhorns and they haven't won any worlds.

You also claim there needs to be something to "entice you to move up". Let's face it that's bs. You will NEVER move up on your own. The only way you will move up is kicking and screaming. When asked what you would do if you were moved up you said it depends on whether or not you won the major world series- Why? Your team is your team. Would they become magically better if they win the world? No, we all know what you will do- what you have always done-break up and find a way to play down. Which by the way-its that attitude and behavior that is one of the main contributor to the lesser numbers at the top division. Fear.

In addition to fear the other reason often given is the lack of teams at the plus level. So here’s a real idea- why not move up the top major teams. That addresses that part of the problem (lack of teams). It would also address the other part(fear). You always want someone to go into the dark scary woods with you. It could help sooth the fears of some major teams since they would not have to play the veteran plus teams every game. There would be a mix of teams- sort of like it is in the major division now where some are stronger than others. The only difference is major teams that are used to being at the top would now find themselves occasionally more challenged. The next move is to do the same thing for AAA up to major. AA teams could then join the lower AAA teams.

Here’s something else to think of. Major teams getting bumped up would now have their rosters opened up. No restrictions on the number of plus players they could pick up. So Tim could pick up those 2 players he was trying to add. Or they could adopt Bigon’s idea about regions to add even more players.

Nowhere in here is anyone asked to break up. When you break up a team you don’t magically get 2 more teams-remember the cookie example. What you are doing here is taking all the teams and instead of dividing by 4 you are dividing by 3. This means more teams in all divisions. It’s not magic-its simple math.

Tim these are real ideas that could contribute to the overall growth of all Senior Softball. And nowhere in here are you trying to increase growth by getting rid of teams.

July 31, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

Tim my guess is the major plus guys are sitting back quietly because your idea is ridiculous-doesn't have any data to support it, and you just don't see how ridiculous your idea is unless it is applied somewhere else like the Olympics, college basketball, MLB etc. What's your data? Are there more or less plus teams at the SSUSA worlds than say 6 years ago before the scary Sommerville/Mavericks showed up with their horned helmets and torches ready to burn the villages? I think they had 4 teams in 2006 before thay started their run. Maybe averaging 7 or 8 last couple of years. This despite tougher economic times and increased travel costs. If the dynasty ruined it wouldn't they have fewer teams? Oh sorry, using basic math and logic which are not supportive of your "idea".





July 30, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

Allan 55
"I have a very simple question. How do you move up a team that hasn't reached Sunday in the World Tournament the last two years?"

Answer- there could be a couple of reasons-1)overall strength of team and number of major plus caliber players. 2) Team performance (won/loss, average margin of victory) over the entire year not just the world series. 3) team adds new major plus players to go along with an already borderline team.

Remember winning the worlds is an AUTOMATIC move up not the ONLY move up. That would mean you would only move up 1 team a year. And that wouldn't be in keeping with Tim's desire to grow the major plus division. Especially if you use his ridiculous idea about disbanding whoever wins the major plus worlds. Add 1 team, disband another - you do the math. His lack of logic is amazing.
July 29, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

Swing,
Granted there are fewer plus teams than at most levels. What’s not broken are the teams at the major plus level or their rules. What is broken is the system that allows major teams with 5-7 or more plus quality players like MTC 50’s (and others) to continue to play major. We have a name for this type of behavior-its called sandbagging. Teams that sand bag don’t want to play up at the next level. In a major team’s case that next level would be major plus- the problem with major plus-There is NO SANBAGGING AT MAJOR PLUS.

Tim has done a great job with his posts pointing his finger everywhere except where it belongs-at teams like his. Here’s a thought …for any team that is bumped up from major to plus..instead of allowing 5 or 6 to return to the same team make it 3. Here’s another idea- make homeruns an out in every division but major plus. In the lowest division make them an out and an inning killer.

If all the major teams that were bumped actually tried playing up there would be more teams at the plus level that were of their caliber. Sure there would be the veteran plus teams in the mix that would be/should be better than the recently bumped up teams but after a couple of years in plus they would be better as well. There would be something wrong with the system if a team recently bumped from major dominated the plus division.


July 27, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

LeeLee
Not sure how Michael Phelps is an individual defeats the argument. Substitute the USA Basketball Team or the William sisters or the Russian gymnast teams of the 70’s and 80’s. Telling them that they won too much and have to break up would seem RIDICULOUS. And as far as major league sports there were plenty of dynasties before free agency, actually more than after free agency. The 47-62 Yankees dwarfed anything that happened after free agency (softball’s version of out of region players that hasn’t been allowed to play out yet). That alone destroys Tim’s argument that free agency ruins the sport. In fact baseball has become way more popular after free agency.

And then you can take his logic to college basketball and UCLA’s tremendous dynasty of the 60’s and early 70’s. They won something like 11 out of 12 years. I can see the headlines “Stanford Says UCLA should not be allowed to play this year-they’ve won too much, NCAA Agrees”. Sounds silly doesn’t it. I repeat no sport has ever made a team “break up” for winning.

And as far as salary caps go they apply to ALL teams and never force an individual team to break up. His logic is counterintuitive to everything we have ever been taught about sports or life in America (sounds a bit like a lefty to me). Ask the Northwest Legends if they were forced to break up how many new plus teams would come out of their area. Or would players age up, retire, and fill in on other teams. The idea that they would split up and form 2 teams isn’t based in fact at all-just his opinion. If Tim’s team is forced up will they break up (as seems to be his style) and form 2 major teams? Or will there be 1 less major team in NORCAL?

July 27, 2012
donll
Topic: Tournaments
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP - Part II

LeeLee,
You say there is a limited number of true impact players and it would be hard for the major teams to find them. Wouldn't allowing out of region players enlarge the pool they could choose from? It sounds like the good plus teams rosters are set and they might be less likely to use the rule. And if the existing plus teams did use the rule wouldn't that free up another plus player from their team?

Also, is SSUSA considering completely combining the 2 divisions. If so wouldn't some of those lower major teams go to AAA. And then you could drop some of the lower AAA teams to AA. And there would be greater participation at all levels.

Again I will say no sport anywhere forces winning teams to break up anywhere that I can think of. And if you apply Tim's logic to any of the sports we know of (like my Olympic example that he has chosen to ignore)it sounds silly.

Can you really imagine what the country would think, no make that the world, if the Olympic Committee used Tim's logic and asked Michael Phelps to cut off his arm (or tie it behind his back) because he's won too much? It's ludicrous logic.He ignores it because its nonsensical when applied elsewhere.
July 26, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP

Tim Says-
"So naturally.... Weakening the dominate plus teams is the only solution."

Turns out Tim was right- the only solution is weakening the dominate team. The International Olympic Organization realizing that this is the ONLY solution reversed itself and said Michael Phelps may now compete in the 2012 Olympics despite 16 previous medals. However they made the stipulation that he must cut off his right arm to allow other swimmers a better chance to win. Sounds kinda silly doesn't it?
July 25, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP

Breaking News- the International Olympic Committee has just declared Michael Phelps ineligible for the 2012 games, seems he has won too many medals at previous Olympics (16). They said its time to give others a chance to win.
July 24, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP

Tim,
Just curious… you said you won the AA got bumped up and never won again. Did you play at the major level or just quit? And if there was a major level then AA was not the top? And if you just quit and did not play the next level up how is that turning over the top? And if you just quit that is the attitude that kills the upper level. Although you would be “living what you’re preaching”.

Mario, Webbie and Mango also seem to be “living what they’re preaching” as well. Playing at the highest level.

Still not sure how you feel softball should force teams to break up is good/ grows softball.
You break up Sommerville and half go to an existing plus team and the other half retires, moves up a division or filters onto a major team. That major team, lets say yours, now moves up and takes their place. You still have the same number of teams. Only small children believe that a cookie broken in half is now 2 cookies.

Nobody is asking your team to break up. And as far as the discussion/debate is going - I think everyone pretty much know it’s always been about your team moving up.

July 24, 2012
donll
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: TOURNAMENT WINNER AUTO MOVEUP

Tim,
I agree with Mango and Webbie. If more people had the same attitude as those guys (Mario and Webbie) there would be more growth at the upper levels. And as Mango says foster growth at all levels as well. It's actually the attitude of the guys who "break up" rather than "play up" that stifle growth and killed the upper division in ASA.
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