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Nov. 9, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

cal50 those are great questions. It's actually passing thru a fielder. What this means is in the umpires judgement--that being the key--if said fielder made what the ump deems an attempt to make a play on the ball and missed it--it could be thru the 5 hole or hopped over--went under his glove on either side of the fielder. This leads in to your second question--the answer is yes. Your third question most times applies to pitchers. Let's say I'm pitching, your batting and there's a runner on second. You hit a beebee by me where I don't have time to react (undoubtedly using the GSC bat!!) and that ball hits the runner going from second to third the ump should call a dead ball-that runner is out and your on first base.
Nov. 9, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Garocket after consulting with some others I'm going to correct myself in your second scenario. I won't call anything-live ball. I overlooked the runner was in foul territory--a baserunner cannot be out if a batted ball hits that runner standing in foul territory--regardless if it carroms off ther base or not.
Another situation: bases loaded, no outs. For whatever reason the batter in the box is batting out of order. This batter hits a grounder to third. Third baseman steps on third for 1, throws to second for 2, throw to first is late--safe. Next batter comes up the defense appeals the team batted out of order.
What is the call?

Nov. 8, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Garocket I am a USSSA umpire!! I also play 50 major plus with OKI.
Your answer is partially right. This is strictly a judgement call. If the umpire deems the pitcher made a legitimate attempt to field the ball it's a live ball--meaning it passed thru a fielder. Or as you imply it would be live if it touched the pitcher first before hitting the runner. If the ball was hit so hard the pitcher could not make an attempt to field it then the runner would be out--again this is strictly umpire judgement.
Your first question I would answer live ball.
Your second question answer is I would have the runner at third out unless the third-baseman tried to make a play if he was playing in front the bag.
Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken!!
Nov. 8, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Here's one: Man on second 1 out. Batter hits a grounder up the middle. The pitcher tries to field it but misses. The ball hits the runner going from second to third. What's the call?
Nov. 7, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Paul some rules are a bit puzzling but like you said a rule is a rule. One rule in SSUSA that seems weird to me is when you hit a home run everyone must touch the next base. AFAIC it should be hit and sit.
Nov. 7, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Vinny LV you were actually on 2nd base on that play!! lol
In USSSA the answer to your question is once that batter is in the box he is officially in the game. The hit he got counts. There is no out and no penalty.
SSUSA and other associations may have a different rule
Nov. 6, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Paul here is the USSSA rule as it reads from the 2013 rulebook: "if the mistake is discovered after the incorrect batter has completed their turn at bat and before a pitch has been made to a succeeding batter, the batter who should have batted is called out. All baserunners, if they advanced, must return to the base occupied at the time the incorrect batter took a position in the batters box. The next batter is the player whose name follows that of the batter called out for failure to bat. This may even be carried over to the first batter of the next inning, if the appealed out was the thrid out"
Example: let's say stick is batting 3rd, paul is batting 4th and Wayne is batting 5th. For some strange reason I went braindead and you batted when I was supposed to--thus we batted out of order. Runners are on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. You get a base hit and both runners score. Wayne comes up to hit and before a pitch is thrown the defense appeals that we batted out of order. A check of the scorebook confirms it. Per rule, I'm called out for failure to bat and the runners go back to 2nd and 3rd. There are now 2 outs and whoever followed me in the order is up to bat, which would be you.
Nov. 5, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Paul in some cases your correct. We had a guy make a foul ball call on a ball that hit the foul pole--he said it hit the foul side of the pole!!
Nov. 5, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Wayne37, going by USSSA rules (baseball and other associations may be different)
First scenario: An out is called on the 1st batter and the batter who follows the proper batter is up. All base-runners that may have advanced go back to the base they occupied when the incorrect batter was up.
Second scenario: An out is called on the #3 batter and the batter who follows him is up. Any baserunners who advanced on the hit go back to the bases they occupied when the incorrect batter was up.
Follow up, what constitutes a proper appeal compared to an improper appeal?

Nov. 4, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Vinny LV sometimes you can't see everything but a national hof umpire told me once that there isn't a call you can't make walking out in the middle of the field--in a one man. And I believe he is spot on. But your scenario illustrates a good reason for having two umps in competitive games. But unfortunately the economics won't allow it. So we do the best we can.
To answer your question I must disagree about a do-over. I've never heard of a do-over!! I understand and am all about the integrity thing but I view Wayne's scenario as being akin to missing a base or leaving early. It may be blatant but if the next batter executes his turn at bat it's too late to appeal.
Nov. 4, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

It's not something that happens with regularity! Technically, you lose the appeal on the batter who went to second since the following batter went to first--that's considered throwing a pitch to the next batter. Let's say it was the 4th and 5th batter that were walked. The #6 batter is at the plate--you cannot appeal something that 2 batters before did--you can only do that if the next batter is up--5th batter.
That being said most umpires (including myself) wouldn't allow the batter to go directly to second, they'd make them touch first then go to second. Some umpires might declare that it's ok for the batter to go directly to second.
Some might consider this a correctable situation.
Nov. 4, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Vegas Umpires

TD.Tom I'm not certain if this will shed some light on your question or not. From what I understand (and I could be totally mistaken here) whoever scheduled the umpires for Vegas believes in scheduling them for only 3 or 4 games at a time and that's it for the day. Anything more than that they feel umps will get tired on their feet, won't hustle, get mentally tired--not concentrate and many times cop an attitude. Perhaps the last one could answer your question of why some wanted to get games over with quickly?
Nov. 4, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

TexasTransplant and paul0784 are correct!!! Here's another scenario. Runner on third with 2 outs, 4 runs have scored. Pitcher announces that he going to walk the next 2 batters to set up a force at any base. The first batter runs across the field (doesn't touch first) to second base. The next batter, steps in the box and goes to first base. Then after the next batter steps in the box the pitcher appeals that the runner on 2nd missed first. What's the call?
Nov. 3, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Wayne 37 the way you describe the play the next batter executed their turn at bat so there is no call, the play stands.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!!

Nov. 3, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Vinny LV you are correct!! Let's take it even one step further. Suppose the runner at third also left early. After the defense appealed the runner at first leaving early for the 3rd out can they appeal the runner at third base leaving early?

Oct. 31, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Vinny LV unless the Huntsman Games has different rules, I would take issue with what the UIC ruled. Remember in the situation as described all base runners were not forced to move up. The fact that the runner on first didn't tag up is not a factor. The only way a run can score on this play is if a runner crosses the scoring line or touches the scoring plate before the out is recorded at first. Let's take this play a step further. Same situation--bases loaded, 1 out and a fly ball. Outfielder makes the catch--2 outs. Runner at third tags and scores. Runner at second tags and goes to third. The runner at first does the same thing as described above but keeps going to second. The umpire calls time. Next batter comes up, the pitcher appeals the runner on first left early. Umpire calls him out--3 outs. Does the run (who came in from third) count?
Oct. 29, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Rules question. Happened at Huntsman

Vinny LV, it's good that you took it upon yourself to consult with the UIC to make sure you got it right.
I'm curious, did the UIC explain the reason why no runs were counted?
Oct. 25, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Good umpires / bad umpires

Thank you all for your responses!! Very informative. It seems as if umpires who display a pleasant, friendly and courteous attitude while umping is high on the list for being a good umpire--in addition to hustle and rule knowledge.
Does this indicate that old adage to be true that people are treated like they treat others?
Oct. 25, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Good umpires / bad umpires

Neck thanks for your response! As an ump I normally don't say anything like that to a player if they are contesting a call. There was one time I veered from that and what you elluded to reminds me of that story. About 3 years ago i was umping an end of the year loco-yoco mens tourney. In my last game of the day this team was getting beat rather soundly in a losers bracket game. The shortstop (whom I know pretty well and had asked me to play in this tourney) made about 4 errors, hit into 2 double plays and third strike foul-an absolutely brutal game. In the last inning I made a call he apparently didn't like and he lost it. He was cussing me out which naturally caused me to toss him--which he probably wanted. After the game was over I had just got my bag off the fence when he approached me and decided he was going to be "last word lucy". He really let me have it--amongst many other derogatory things he called me the worst umpire in the world. That's where I veered off--I got a bit confrontational and told him "I may be the worst ump in the world but I didn't hit into those double plays, third strike foul and I didn't make all those errors." His exact words to that were "well you not being very professional" To which I replied, "what did you expect? I'm the worst umpire in the world" Then I walked away.
Oct. 24, 2013
stick8
Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Good umpires / bad umpires

As a branch off from the thread "Vegas Umpires" I believe it's safe to say we've all experienced bad umpires and good umpires at various times thru the years. It sounds as if posters on here regard Tommy (from Northern California?) as a model umpire. Here in Michigan we have an umpire who is generally regarded in a similar vein as Tommy and it's definitely not me--lol. I'm sure this is true most everywhere. Players always like to say 'he's terrible" or "we got him??" Or "we got a good ump today"
Anyone remember the show from the 1970's "The Match Game"? When the contestant had to match the last answer from a panel member (to win the $$$)it seems as if the contestants always chose Richard Dawson to match. Why him? Contestants seemed to trust Mr Dawson would likely match their answer. I sense this same feeling with Tommy--players seem to have trust in him to do a good job umpiring their game. (if the show I referenced wasn't the match game, feel free to correct me)
In spite of the fact that umpires do miss calls what are some of the characteristics that, in your estimation, would lead you to believe someone to be a good umpire and someone to be a bad umpire?
Please share your thoughts.

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