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Discussion: TOC 55 division

Posted Discussion
Jan. 23, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
208 posts
TOC 55 division
Good luck to my old 55 Fangrabber team in next month's TOC...You guys should bring home the rings, but a 3 day tourney with only 4 teams is a little over kill don't you think SSUSA?
Have fun guys & go travel safe!
Jan. 23, 2013
kbl
Men's 60
528 posts
RIGHTJ1..I WENT TO THE TOC 2 TIMES....IN MY OPINION, ONCE YOUR TEAM DECIDES TO GO THERE, YOU GO THERE TO TAKE IN EVERYTHING SSUSA HAS INSTORE FOR YOU...THAT MEANS ALL THEY HAVE SCHEDULED. I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOUNGER TEAMS TO GET OFF WORK.

THEY HAVE GREAT THINGS TO DO LEADING UP TO THE TOURNAMENT ITSELF...AND THE BANQUET FRIDAY EVENING IS VERY NICE...YOU GET TO MEET ALOT OF NICE PEOPLE...SATURDAY AND SUNDAY YOU GET INTO D/E AND A TEAMS GET TO PLAY "WHOEVER" SHOWED UP. IT IS A GREAT 5 DAYS IF YOU CAN DO IT.

JUST MY 2C...THANKS, KEN SPRINGFORD SOFTBALL
Jan. 23, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
208 posts
KBL,

I hear you LOUD & CLEAR...lol
My point was that this is not a vacation and I'm glad that SSUSA has all the events scheduled for the teams that do take out the time to travel & play in the TOC....but that doesn't leave them off the hook for the # of teams playing in any given division...I just think it should be schedule, so that ALL or MOST of the teams that qualify for the TOC should have an opportunity to play in the TOC & because it's held in February or the off season, to me it's just a waste of time & money traveling 6000 miles (Iím in California) to play 3 teams none of which is in our division over 3 days.....just my 2 cents!
Jan. 23, 2013
canIjack
Men's 60
321 posts
I feel you Ron. I played with the Mavericks back in 2006 and 2007, We went to Virgina and played 3 Teams, Turn 2 and Motown Stars and a 40s team.In fact one of the younger man said I looked like his Daddy. I wasn't ready for that one.
I agree, Its a long a way to go for a 3 Team Tourney.
Jan. 23, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
131 posts
As I stated in a prior TOC message, the TOC has the Appearance of being a more Prestigious Tournament, and seems to have more Emphasis (or Marketing) than the World Championships!? If you have to WIN a TOC to Play in the TOC Championships, then shouldn't there be Funding to get you there, much like the USSSA World Series & ASA Nationals ? ? ?

My point is, RINGS are only GIVEN to the WORLD & TOC Champions! I just don't see the need for two (2) separate Tournaments. Back in the Day, you had to Earn your Berth to the WORLD. There are already several TOC Tournaments throughout the Schedule, so why not use the TOC the way NIT's were used in the past? This way SSUSA offers one (1) True Champion at the end of the Year! To me, the TOC is a FLUFF Tourney, with very low turnout, and having to Combine Divisions just to make up Brackets. IMHO, that just doesn't set very well . . .

I would recommend just going to one (1) year-end World Tournament, moving it East, West, and Central every other year. Just a thought . . .


Regards,
Jeff White #7
Arizona Elite
Jan. 23, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
JDub,
Its sales, marketing & hype. But lack of teams is a problem with few bracket exceptions. The other I can think of is the 3 mont lag between events leading to it. Many teams are snowed in and can't practice, Teams are re working rosters, p[layers are moving up or teams are in all this and finding same players you qualified with are tough.
Financial would be one also.

Needing to plan for 4 days and 3 nights or more is tough but with something that can in the above mentioned case of only 4 teams or so is outrageous.
They say contractual agreements are the reason but this has been the same 'reason' to the argument for years.

Knowing you won a major event I'd think would be good enough given that the chances of actually playing a different team of same age and rating are slim in the TOC. But it does happen.
Viewing teams the played in Reno and are in FL. it kinda makes me wonder about the placements, given I watched some games and played against some others. But thats not my worry.
IMO the deal breaker is the mixed brackets, they suck.
Jan. 23, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
rightrj1, canljack, JDub, and taits:
I agree. I have heard a number of players talk favorably regarding the TOC. However, the number of teams that actually show does not make the TOC much of an attraction. I would play in the tournament if I lived a few hours away, however, how can you talk players into a costly tournament without competition...or playing against different age brackets? It receives hype but can't compete with Reno or the World.
Jan. 23, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
732 posts
I agree that it is an expensive trip, but if I have the time off and the team agreed to go, I would go.

I believe you can equate TOC on the same level as the Pro Bowl. It is more for the recognition and the experience than it is for the actual play.

My brother is playing in the ISSA TOC this weekend. He and his wife are stoked to get out of Ohio in the winter.
Jan. 23, 2013
birdie
Men's 60
680 posts
My feelings on the TOC is that this tourney is the only one in senior softball that you need to qualify for by winning a tourney. I am not sure about the ISSA in Tampa this weekend but I do not think that it is the same.I will agree that the date of this tourney should be look at.We are not going because of a huge roster turn over. Our top 6 or 7 hitters have depart for better things. I wish them luck in their knew endeavor. Well maybe, I really hope they crash and burn.We would have been able to play if this was held in Nov of 2012.The bottom line is you have to win something to play in the TOC and that to me is very very important. Thanks Harry #20 NVFORCE
Jan. 23, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
softball4b,
Expense is one thing...but going across the United States to play in a three team tournament doesn't mean much to me. I would have to agree with your Pro Bowl definition.

birdie,
I also like to play tournaments where you must qualify to play. However, how prestigious is a tournament where of all the teams that qualified, only three or four teams showed up? Would you be happy playing in a bracket that included another age group? What would happen if you were a 55 team and you were mixed with 60 or 50 teams? Would the tournament lose some of its luster? I feel the TOC (like you do) would need to be moved to late Oct. if it had hopes of attracting more teams. I also feel JDub is correct regarding one year-end tournament. I felt the World Tournament was outstanding last year. Maybe the World Tournament will have a tougher qualifying process in the future.
Jan. 23, 2013
GI
Men's 60
161 posts
Good Luck Fangrabbers and Coach John, I believe it is time for you to win this one. Hope you do not run into a little known team that had moved ITSELF up from double A to AAA to play you guys in the TOC. CJS Express lost first 3 games in 2007 TOC but with new format got hot and won all the rest to beat Fangrabbers twice in Championship. Joe's Homerun winning that final game. That may be one for the record Books. Best of luck my friend, Bring it back to AZ.
Jan. 24, 2013
hitnrun5
31 posts
Fangrabbers and Hollis have already won their divisions by being the only teams going in their age/rating division. Neither team needs to win one game and they will still get championship rings and trophy. That in itself says something about this tournament.
Jan. 24, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
hitnrun5,
That is the comical point. With four teams in the bracket, two are automatic winners and the other two teams will probably play a two-out-of-three playoff for the other championship. Four teams are entered in the bracket and three are crowned champions. This is not much of a turnout when three different divisions are represented by four teams. I know it is billed as the big tournament, but it does not compare to the World.
Jan. 25, 2013
Fabe
Men's 50
215 posts
After winning the Worlds (50 AAA), these brackets seem like a small local tourney! We had 49 teams competing...the TOC has maybe 8. Vegas was the tourney to be in...great games n meetn new Bruddahs was the bomb! Aloha, Fabe
Jan. 27, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
208 posts
Allan55 & Hitnrun5,
Is that really true about Hollis & the Fangrabbers already being winners in their respective divisions, therefore receiving Rings for just being there? If that's the case, I would like to receive my ring since I played & also HIT the WALKOFF home RUN that qualified the Fangabbers to be able to attend this yearís TOC!!
George Robinson & Jimmy Ross was also a part of this team and arenít able to attend the TOC, they too should get their Ring! TOC rings should be for Roster Players only!

Johnny Hose feels, if you canít attend the TOC you donít deserve or will get a Ring, but heís allowing 2 ball players that live in North Carolina to play in the TOC with the Fan Grabbers (because they can afford to go) thus giving them Rings just for their participationÖ Thatís BS!!
I have told A&& HOSE just that!
(SSUSA how is this so?) When did North Carolina & AZ become touching States?
Am I pissed??? YEAPÖ.Play bye the rules, everyone else has too! No Exceptions!
Jan. 27, 2013
neck10
492 posts
I bet its a major plus team can have two guys whos state doesnt touch we dont care we'll play'em
Jan. 27, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
208 posts
Neck that rule only applies to teams west of the Mississippi; North Carolina is east of the Mississippi last time I checked? Do those 2 players deserve to get Rings? Especially if the winner has already been decided?
Jan. 27, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
rightrj1,
That is correct. Show up and receive your ring. I don't see why you shouldn't receive a ring if you were on the roster. I believe each champion receives 15 rings. I also agree that is BS. I don't think you should be able to pick up players from anywhere in the U.S. to play. I also think your roster should be frozen. If you don't have your players, you don't go. This another reason I am not a fan of this tournament. A number of teams pick up players to go. The team ends up being a modified version.
Jan. 27, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
On good authority you can plan, as it were, to it being in FL and at least in the month of Feb for about 10 more years.

I agree on the recognition part but I doubt the numbers of teams in most brackets would enter the conversation for many that look at it that way.

For what they do at this one might well make it worth while should you be able to go.

For the approx 2k cost from Ca, I'll never see it but that cost would cover about 2 years of my NCSSA cost and a couple other SSUSA thrown in there, as well. Maybe that's thinking outside the box, but its realistic.
I'd love to make it some time but I don't see it coming.

On the single team bracket win thing you can bet on that puppy. But they still play some games as it were.

As for only one team bracket th onlt rule i found that may be linked is 13.3(2).
but it looks like its basically for qualifiers and I could not find one in the TOC rules area or section for this.
One team bracket, you win.
That would be when to go...lol
Again doesn't say much for the "WIN", does it.
Jan. 28, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
taits,
I agree. I can't justify the cost either. If it was the World, I would go. However, the TOC is not any World. Also...is it me, or does it appear there are a number of players looking for teams? Maybe that is how to pick up a quick ring. Boy...if I only lived in Florida, I would have a chance at a ring every year, even if my team didn't qualify. Some teams would be so desperate (because of last minute drops) that they would be willing to pick up anybody to fill the roster.
Feb. 4, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
Allan55,
The TOC is about quality of teams, not number of teams in any division or age group.
Not my words or what I would 'wish' for.
The setting is fantastic for what is given i believe but to go & spend that kinda money and only play a couple teams in your age ratings I doubt qualifies as a true TOC definition.
Word is there is only room for 115 teams, so the 1st sentence on this will not change not do they want to change it.
Main focus is on Reno, Vegas and PHX, Which are the big ones.

Those are great T's to attend, though even some of those brackets are thin. You never know until you can't get out... w\o loosing your shirt.

Feb. 4, 2013
Allan55
79 posts
taits,
There were 8 teams in our 55M+ World last year. If any five of those teams would have been in the TOC, I would agree with you. However, one team lacks on both quality and quantity. Maybe your age group is well represented...but other age groups (50&55) are not. I played in both age groups this year, and the TOC this year lacks quantity and quality...unless one team representing means that. The Winter Worlds was better, but that isn't saying much. The Winter Worlds drew a few more teams, but only one of the 8 55M+ teams that played in the 2012 Worlds played in the Winter Worlds, and OKI was the only team (I believe) from the 50M+ 2012 Worlds to play.
Feb. 5, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4344 posts
Reality is I think less than half of those who earned an invite, ever show up.
I agree on the lack of teams being a major reason teams choode not to go as well as the cost. As said, they use quality (of teams) over quantity (full brackets) for the event. Setting (FL) will not change for at least a decade. That you can bet on unless it becomes swamp land or the like.
You get lucky if your in a full bracket. Might be easier to have a lottery or flip a coin as to who won in some others. For the single team brackets, its a costly ride for a ring.
Go back over the past results that show the info still and you can see the thick and thin of it all.
Worst thing I see is that the players plan after winning but don't know till its too late to cancel how many will be in the bracket, if any.
Who do you play with?
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