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Online now: 3 members: Bob Downs, TABLE SETTER 11, dblade00; 90 anonymousDiscussion: Platooning. Yes or No
| Posted | Discussion |
| Aug. 24, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Platooning. Yes or No We've been discussing platooning (or patooning as it is spelled on one thread) or "free defensive substitution, a lot. It has the potential to change the game we play significantly and some of us think for the better. Take a vote, yes or no. Comment if you like and ask if you want more info. |
| Aug. 24, 2006 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | No |
| Aug. 24, 2006 Hit the gap Men's 70 154 posts | NO |
| Aug. 24, 2006 Pudge Men's 65 47 posts | NO |
| Aug. 24, 2006 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | NO It could change the dynamics of the game over the course of a few years resulting in depleted skill levels if a defensive team were mostly to field and an offensive team only to hit. The result could be a lot more one dimensional players. The important intangible of intra squad comradarie could be damaged. Also to be considered is our age (or any age bracket or level of play up to the MLB) is the fact that most injuries occur on the defensive side of the ball. Conservatively 85% or higher defensively to (maybe as high as) 15% hitting given the fact runners are easily available. Probably closer to 95% on the D side to 5% to the O side. Even though some players feel better about one part of their game or the other most players have a tremendous amount of pride in both. |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | NEGATIVE!!!! I don't think we need any more info. |
| Aug. 25, 2006 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | 100% NEGATORY |
| Aug. 25, 2006 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | 100% NEGATORY |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Senior11 9 posts | NO ! |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Robert Men's 50 64 posts | No |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Lecak Men's 60 1026 posts | YES |
| Aug. 25, 2006 JOHN BOB Men's 60 76 posts | No! our 55 aaa team looks for players who can hit & play defence that's the way it's been for year's why are we always trying to change the game?Hey is you have a great defence player but he a weak hitter he bat's in the bottom of order same as major league baseball or little league.There is always great hitter's that are not able to play defence a lot time its not their fault bad knee or knee's , torn rotator etc. |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Steinbrenner Men's 60 75 posts | NO.................... |
| Aug. 25, 2006 salio2k Men's 60 547 posts | NO! |
| Aug. 25, 2006 TotallyRec Men's 50 33 posts | NO |
| Aug. 25, 2006 TexasTransplant Men's 70 516 posts | NO!! |
| Aug. 25, 2006 RedEye Men's 65 96 posts | No |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Older Than Dirt Men's 50 28 posts | NO |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Dudley Men's 60 23 posts | HELL NO! Play the game like it's always meant to be played |
| Aug. 25, 2006 Bob50 Men's 60 242 posts | No |
| Aug. 25, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Merely flesh wounds, Gary. Ideas of merit often enounter resistance at first, The fact that people are thinking and discussing and voting is a good thing. Good exercise. Fran, if you're watching and listening, I think having a regular part of the website devoted to debate and vote on important topics like platooning might be a good idea. HTG, Einstein turning into Frankeinstein is a gem I was too engaged to appreciate at the time. Touché. Now, let's see. The exit polls are projecting a landslide victory for the forces of evil. Hmmmmm. If I decided to invade SSUSA headquarters I might secure the edge I need snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. |
| Aug. 26, 2006 bashbro1 Men's 70 267 posts | A respectful NO! |
| Aug. 26, 2006 bogie Men's 65 448 posts | YES...Joe, I could see your head slipping under the water and as a buddy I wanted to help you get a gulpful of air. Seeing how I only DH anyway, I can see in limited circumstances that it would be of benefit...cut down the need for batting 14 or more in some tournies, yet getting all involved in the game with their best skills utilized. |
| Aug. 26, 2006 bashbro1 Men's 70 267 posts | Voting complied by bashbro 1 as of Saturday morning August 26th 5:18am! Votes for Platooning: 2 Votes against Platooning: 18 1. Aug. 24 DMac Division: Mens' 55 Votesā No 2. Aug. 24 Hit the gap Division: Mens' 60 VotesāNO 3. Aug. 24 Pudge Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNO 4. Aug. 24 Pete D Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNO 5. Aug. 25 Dbax Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNEGATIVE!!!! 6. Aug. 25 BruceinGa Division: Votesā100% NEGATORY 7. Aug. 25 Senior11 Division: VotesāNO ! 8. Aug. 25 Robert Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNo 9. Aug. 25 Lecak Division: VotesāYES 10. Aug. 25 JOHN BOB Division: Mens' 55 VotesāNo! 11. Aug. 25 Steinbrenner Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNO 12. Aug. 25 salio2k Division: Mens' 55 VotesāNO! 13. Aug. 25 TotallyRec Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNO 14. Aug. 25 TexasTransplant Division: Mens' 60 VotesāNO!! 15. Aug. 25 RedEye Division: Mens' 55 VotesāNo 16. Aug. 25 Older Than Dirt Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNO 17. Aug. 25 Dudley Division: Mens' 60 VotesāHELL NO! 18. Aug. 25 Bob50 Division: Mens' 50 VotesāNo 19. Aug. 26 bashbro1 Division: Mens' 60 Votesā A respectful NO! 20. Aug. 26 bogie Division: VotesāYes |
| Aug. 26, 2006 Enviro-Vac Men's 65 489 posts | No |
| Aug. 26, 2006 Donny Men's 55 4 posts | NO, thank you |
| Aug. 27, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | To date, thanks for ALL the responses. Debate and accountability are fundamental aspects of intelligent and civilized life. 2 more no's Bash. That makes 20. Way to go. That's 20 out of maybe 2 Brazillion viewers. Hardly a majority. And we're still waiting for the correct count from Ohio. And you forget me. That makes 3. And just like with the Marines, all you need is few good men. I spoke with one of your no voters today who will not get cheap adverstizing out me who said he'd rather die than platoon, yet, he agreed it was a good idea to get bench players seamlessly into a game. |
| Aug. 28, 2006 softballer Men's 65 594 posts | well i'm against it for this reason you'll have about 20 guys on it this way right? well you win the tournament and only get xxx ampunt of awards who GETS SCREWED? MY 2C. |
| Aug. 28, 2006 bashbro1 Men's 70 267 posts | Well "Softballer", that's kind of a 'Softball Question' youve tossed out to the user community. It's simple: First all of the offensive players are PAID! And what's left over if any will go first to the P, then OF, then IF and last and definitely least, the C. bashbro1 Playing out of Kent's Russell Road Softball Complex. |
| Aug. 28, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey Bash, I could have sworn a couple of pages ago you were trying to be helpful by making list and calling for a vote. Did I missread you thinking you were trying to be helpful? It could be read that you are clowning the situation and shouldn't be taken seriously. What's up? |
| Aug. 29, 2006 bashbro1 Men's 70 267 posts | Hey Einstein: That's how I answer questions like the one posed. No matter what the makeup is of a team when it comes to handing out the accolades someone ALWAYS get's SCREWED in their estimation. Why in the hell would platooning screw more guys than are already getting screwed? You must be able to read 'tongue in cheek' and hyperbole when I write as I am a professional technical writer with a very large aero space company in the Pacific North West. basbbore1 Kent, WA |
| Aug. 29, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | I think it's a good point made if you mean it seriously. More guys less awards. That assumes a full complement of 10 and 10 or 20 players which isn't necessarily the case with the essence of platooning. You can platoon with 11 or 20. It really doesn't matter. It just means that the 11 guy or the one who doesn't bat at the start of the game can play his butt off on defense. |
| Aug. 31, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Looks like we survived the first round of resistance with nothing but a few flesh wounds. There's so many more of you out there and this is an important issue for all of us in Senior ball. Maybe Fran will set up as an arm of the web page an easier way to get a consensus from all the readers on any given topic. But for now, we're it. Platooning or free defensive substitution is a terrific idea that can help us all in senior ball. What do YOU think? |
| Aug. 31, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | Einstein, It apears like you lost to the NO's, go on to newer and BETTER things. PLEASE |
| Aug. 31, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | Einstein, It apears like you lost to the NO's, go on to newer and BETTER things. PLEASE |
| Aug. 31, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Not over till the fat lady sings whoever you are Bill, and the discussion has really just begun. So if you don't like it don't read anymore. There's a lot of people just coming to and through the website who have opinions just like you and me and may want./need to learn about platooning and place THEIR vote. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | We here her singing in the background!!!!!!!!! |
| Sept. 1, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | 60 Bill, The only person I've ever seen use more than one exclamation point in any response to me was Dbax. You wouldn't be Dbax by another name would you? Regardless, I'm about to play 3 away, far away tournaments in the month of September one of which is in Alabama. I'm already wincing at the idea of making it through any/all of them with energy at the end or without being injured. . Free defensive subbing or platooning would be a god-send for me or any of the guys I'm playing with/against so as to avoid serious dehydration or injury going forward. On that argument alone and there are others just as significatant, platooning or free defensive subbing is a powerfully positive idea that would help us, greatly in Senior Softball. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | She's been singing for a month now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Sept. 1, 2006 Lecak Men's 60 1026 posts | Einstein when you go to Alabama if you play the team from New Jersey one of my real close friends plays either LC or RC, he will probably bat cleanup, goes by Snake, someone has got to tell me how this gentlemen hasn't been picked up by a 50 Major plus team, makes you wonder. Fun team to play against they love their beer. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | Nobodys making you go to 3 FAR away touries in one month, stay home for one or two. Rest youself for the fat lady singing. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Snake, eh? Sure, Lecak. I'll look for him and see how he plays. Thanks for your input and support. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 Dbax Men's 65 2101 posts | Ok, here's what you do for these three tournaments. Play DH, that way you don't have to play the field. If defense is your strong point, after you bat, if you get a hit, get a courtesy runner. It is that simple. I can't imagine traveling all the way to Alabama and playing defense only and not batting. Heck that is half the fun of playing. Einstein, I am being serious now. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | We also play in 3 events over the next five weeks... every other weekend. I have had 3 knee operations, an ankle surgery and various and sundry other orthpaedic issues. But I've been playing baseball/softball for over 50 years and see no reason to change the way it is played. If I'm not able to play my best (or close to it), I'll gladly sit out... whether it be because of inuries or poor performance. As Mango stated two weeks ago, there is a lot to the strategy element of the game and, like him, I'd prefer to leave it as is. Looking forward, they use an 11th defensive fielder in some of the older age brackets. Perhaps this concept would be more appropiate with them. Since this subject has been on the message board for several weeks, I've had the opportunity to discuss it with many teammates. I haven't found one that likes it yet. But we only have 17 guys on our team and some might perceive this as a small cross section. I'm not in the position to say that it is or isn't the ideal group to base an opinion upon. But 100% in one direction speaks loudly to me as we seldom totally agree on anything... about the only other 100% thing would be that winning is better than losing. Bob Woodroof, GSF |
| Sept. 1, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hi Bob, It was fun playing against you guys in Salem, last month. You have some terrific players on your squad and some wonderful guys like Billy Swift. I've polled personally way more than the 17 on GSF and probably 75 per cent of them think free defensive subbing or platooning is a great idea. I respect your opinion and right to disagree and appreciate the serious manner in which you have responded. No one can or should make you change your line up and the way you conduct business on your team yet, would you be opposed to playing against my team, some time, while we free sub on defense and you stick to the traditional way? What do you think the outcome would be and why? |
| Sept. 1, 2006 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | To tell you the truth, I don't really care to hypothesize on the possible outcome of GSF v. Kelly's using your rules. I recall that there was no way the Dodgers should have beaten the '88 A's or the '63 Yankees. The game is best played on the field. I can only take your word for it as it relates to the '75% that favor your line of thinking' because from what I've read it appears to be heavily slanted in the other direction. I initially responded because you asked folks to do so and I offered my input as you requested. Beyond this, I have no interest in this extremely hypothetical matter. The 'beep, beep, beep' that I'm hearing may well be the fat lady backing up to gargle. You apparently cannot hear it from your end. :-) |
| Sept. 1, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Thanks for the smile at the end of your reply, Bob. Again, I think GSF is a terrific team and you added one of the finest players ever to step on a ball field in Steve Callan. He's one of the few players who always scares me when he comes up to the plate. In an earlier comment you said the only thing all your GSF guys agree on is that winning is better than losing. Well, I hazard that free defensive subbing will make you more likely to win than playing traditionally. And furthermore, I think why some of the reaction to platooning is from a relatively small number of intense responders is because it in fact will make a significant change in the game... one that I and many others think for the better. I need not school you on the difficulty in changing anything good or bad that has been going down for a long time but the problem with overcoming inertia doesn't by itself signal the value of making the change. So, respectfully I accept your disagreement but nothing you have said demerits meaningfully, given tradition and the inertia involved, from the value that allowing platooning or free substitution will have in the Senior game. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | In the last sentence above I meant to say free defensive substitution. |
| Sept. 1, 2006 the wood Men's 65 1123 posts | Einstein: I was remiss in failing to acknowledge the compliments for Billy Swift (aka Billy Steele) and Steve Callan. They have both been big additions to our team in every way. You also said some nice things about GSF in general. I thank you for this as well. It's been a long road for us as we were only a quasi-established team 4 1/2 years ago... high major to low major +. The Old A's set a very high standard in the 55s and over the past 12 months it's been Turn Two. We want to achieve the things that they have done. Thanks again for noticing... |
| Sept. 3, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Thanks, Wood. Good luck to GSF the rest of the year. We'll be in Palm Springs and Vegas at the end of the month and I look forward to seeing you, again. Again, travelling to 3 very away Major plus Nationals in September has got me concerned. I already have a hammy I'm nursing and if I could get some time off the field, like I could easily if there was free defensive subbing, I and my teams would be a lot better off. Again, guys, Platooning or free defensive substitution which would save my butt this month would mean: - higher player and membership enrollment in tournaments, teams and associations - significantly higher caliber of play - less injuries - longer player careers - more fan enjoyment - significantly better team chemistry as it is easier to get all members into a game without sacrificing scoring efficiency and in 5 seconds could be implemented effortlessly without making any team do it that didn't want to. Lastly, I wish it was my idea but it sure is a good one and worth serious consideration by all who care about and play Senior Softball. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | It appears that this "important issue/discussion to senior softball" is ONLY important to one person. The majority has spoken and for all legitimate reasons. Give this thing the dignity of the death it has earned and deserved about 40 or 50 replies ago. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | The FAT LADY is still singing for you, please move on to something else and stay home and heal. PLEASE. Bill |
| Sept. 4, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | Hey guys, If you think you're bored with my arguments and reasons how do you think I feel hearing the same tired, old put down's? Now, we've heard a lot from a couple of you. We get it. You don't like platooning or free defensive substitution and your proud of it. OK. Stop making comments. No one is asking you to. But this ongoing discussion, argument and exposition is meant for the rest of the viewers and players and the new viewers and players who hit the website all the time. You say the majority has spoken? Did you flunk math in high school? We've recorded maybe 25 votes in all. How many would say are out there, looking at and potentially looking at what we're talking about? You guys are in danger of egocentricity on this one. You say you speak for everyone else when all you have is a small group of support. I know there's hundreds of people who read and listen and watch the arguements. We want to expose them to the idea and make it easier to discuss and think about as time goes on. We want to get through the inertia that operates against making any change in the status quo. So, simply. If you don't like hearing about how good platooning would be for senior softball, stop listening, reading and writing on the website. There are others who might want to hear more and think more about it. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | This works both ways, OK everbody please sign in and tell us how loud the fat lady is singing. Its got to be real loud by now. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 DMac Men's 60 207 posts | Joe, We already have defensive platooning. It's called batting fourteen or more batters, something we routinely do in the preliminary rounds. Once the elimination part starts we bat twelve max and are faced with decisions. Do we start the light hitting defensive specialist or do we put in the big hitter and then cross our fingers when we go out in the field. This has been a vital part of strategy since the game was invented and has decided many games. You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too, and that is why I have to respectfully vote no to your proposal. By the way, "prolong careers"? Most of us should have been put out to pasture years ago. :) On that note, Bobby Tucker, WWII POW survivor and a fixture in the Burbank senior league, died last week at age 83. RIP, Bobby, we already miss you. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 4x4 Men's 65 601 posts | The fat lady is deafening....... It's beginning to look like the trumpeting FOR platooning is taking the shape of literary self pleasuring rather than any valid issue. The issue has been discussed and discarded. |
| Sept. 4, 2006 einstein Men's 50 3112 posts | DMac, Batting 14 is batting fourteen and is the deadliest thing you can do to any lethal line up. Everyone knows or should that if you want to REALLY compete you bat the 10 best. Sorry D. When you look at ALL the things taken together that free defensive subbing will bring effortlessly and immediately to senior softball the tired, old single pointed arguments to date pale into whining. Serious, intelligent and concerned players will see through the initial cry-ing out that comes with trying to change anything in the face of tradition and fear and look at platooning or free defensive subbing on it merits and monster upside for the majority of players, administrators, coaches and fans. Pete? Discussed and discarded by whom and how many? Don't you have to know and consider the source when evaluating judgements? Lastly, for now, it's a free country and a free website and I'm getting the idea that there's a couple of clowns out there who think it belongs to them to decide what's important and what should be. To them I say, "Honk, honk." The majority of people in any constituency are silent. They listen, watch, make judgments and seldom speak. They are being well served by the argument for platooning or free defensive substitution and, in the end, they will see who the true clowns are and aren't and they will make their own judgment. |
| Sept. 5, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | You ask on Aug 24 what people though about you idea.You go you anser. NO PLATOONING move on or change your name to Imrightyournot. |
| Sept. 5, 2006 60 Bill 27 posts | This is fun. |
