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Discussion: Not Pleased with Rating System

Posted Discussion
March 4, 2013
Renegade12
Men's 60
3 posts
Not Pleased with Rating System
We went from 60AAA to 60Major classification. On what merits I cannot tell you. We have gotten 2nd twice and 3rd and 8th in the last years upper tier tournaments and were fairly competitive. Not been able to get over the hump though. Now the outlook is bleak considering the teams in Major division and I'm not saying that from a "poor us" position. There burning issue here is that I count at least 6 teams that have done as well as us or better and did not move up. There's teams that won top tier tournaments and played in the TOC in this last year and are still 60AAA! What is up with that? Whatever rating system they are using is HOOEY.
March 4, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
Perhaps it is who is on your team rather that win\loss record. The rate players as well for about 2 years past.
I know of many 65 teams in AA and AAA that could easily have been moved* but are probably not going anywhere any time soon. And that is with a w\l record.
* that is for both up and down.
There are options even in KS I'd think.
Good luck this year.
March 4, 2013
chico senior
Men's 60
23 posts
Our team was also moved from 60AAA to Major. I have talked with George at SSUSA about the situation and our team is not happy with their decision. We did not go to any National Tournaments, therefore we didn't win any. We went to only 2 SSUSA tournaments, not the 3 that SSUSA says are needed to be evaluated. We won the CAl Cup and finished 5th in Reno. Our run differential was less then 5 runs in all our SSUSA games - the SSUSA rule is over 5 runs. We hit a total of 35 home runs in 58 total games that we played in 2013. Of those, 16 were hit by one guy. We never hit over 2 homeruns in any one game. One of SSUSA main rules for moving a team up is home run numbers. They are forcing us to pick up power type players and play a game that no one on our team is comfortable playing.

I totally agree with SSUSA when they say they want to protect the lower divisions. I agree that if you can compete at the higher level that that is the level you should play. The problem as I see it is that even AA teams can compete at the Major level and win a few games. We can compete at the Major level and win some games. We might go 3 - 3, 2 - 4, or maybe even 4 - 2 occasionaly. However, we have very little chance of winning tournaments at the Major level. If we were destroying teams at the AAA level I would agree with the move or if I truely felt we were going to win Major tournaments I would have no problem.

By all criteria set up by SSUSA we are a AAA team and should be kept there. I also agree there are many teams that are better then us that for whatever reason have remained at the AAA level. Now we have to play Major ball until we get thumped for God knows how long before being moved back to our proper level.
March 4, 2013
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
382 posts
Hi Renegade12 - have played against your team and also watched you play lots of ball. You guys have a very good club and are fun to play as you always bring a good game. You will do well at M.

Chico - You did not say what the name of your team was but top 5 in Reno is pretty good by any standard considering how many teams were in the 60 AAA division in 2012. I thought that the top 8 teams in Reno including our team could all compete at M and any one of the top 8 in Reno could easily have won that tournament. Same goes for the teams at the Worlds in Vegas.

I also think SSUSA could move a lot more teams up to Major to make it a more interesting division to play in. AAA is a very strong division.

Just my $0.02
March 4, 2013
chico senior
Men's 60
23 posts
Enviro-Vac. Our team is North State Screenprint. You eliminated us in Reno. I agree with you that the top 8 or so teams from Reno could compete at the Major level. That is not the point. If you get moved up without ever achieving SSUSA criteria and can only hope to compete but not have a realistic chance of winning the tournament then it is my feeling that your team should have the right to stay at the lower level until which time that you reach SSUSA set criteria. I am not trying to whine about this as we will compete wherever they put us. Our team is seriously considering only playing NCSSA events. We have access to Major and Major Plus players if we want to go the Major route but that is not our goal. We love playing at the AAA level and belong at that level until we prove differently by SSUSA standards. Every team we play has far more power then we do and per SSUSA standards that is a major factor as to which level you should play. Hitting .6 home runs per game is not the makeup of a Major level team. Again, if your team doesn't reach any of the SSUSA standards then how can you justify a move to a higher rating?
March 5, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2584 posts
I see that Adiktive (C&M)Sports was just bumped to 50 M+ by SPA.
March 5, 2013
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
I wish they would leave the teams alone for the most part. Everytime a team comes close to winning, they move them up. When you get moved from AAA to majors, what happens to your subs that barely got to play in AAA? It messes up the chemistry of the teams and moving teams up should be a rare occurrence. I wonder how many teams have folded because they got moved up to majors? I know of some. If a team is blowing away everybody over a period of a couple of years; of course, move them up. Otherwise, when it comes to Senior Softball management, less is better.
March 5, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2584 posts
BL,in a perfect world it wouldn't be necessary to move teams us. Either when formed they would want to play in the highest class in which they could compete. If, after a few years, they have improved, they should still moved themselves up.
99 times out of 100 this won't happen and then it is the responsibility of the association to move them up.
March 5, 2013
GaCMan
85 posts
What exactly is the criteria for moving teams up????? Winning tournaments doesn't seem to be the reason. I always thought that you had to win the bigger ones like DALTON,VEGAS type of tournaments. To me that is a good judge of what a team is, not the small qualifiers.

Our area had a FAIR AAA division until last week. SPA moved all of the AAA teams except 1 up to MAJOR. None of these teams won in Dalton. The team that won in Dalton got moved up to MAJOR only after winning there and in VEGAS. Then 6 months later the rest of us get moved up!!!! GO FIGURE!!

Then to ad insult to injury SSUSA followed SPA and has also moved all of these teams up. Guess they talk to each other about this.

Most of the tournaments we played in last year 55AAA had less that 4 teams in this division. We only won 1 tournament and it had only 2 teams in 55AAA. I guess that means we are MAJOR now, WOW.

Makes me wonder if someone has an AGENDA in this game???
JOEY AMMONS, COLUMBUS 55s
March 5, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1008 posts
Joey - Take a look at the second message from the top of the Message Board titled: TEAM RATINGS Guidelines & Procedures ... That should help you understand the process and policies.
March 5, 2013
TommyC
16 posts
GaCMan,

SPA actually bumbed up 5 of the 10 teams in 55AAA in Dalton last year 1st, 3rd, 4th(our team), 5th place finishers and your team.

We were an automatic bump in SSUSA for winning the ISA in Columbus, IN and figured SPA would probably move us also. Just can't figure how the team that finished 2nd in Dalton and 2nd to us in Columbus did not get bumped and your team did.

Our problem will be finding tournaments to play in. Most SPA tournaments in our are we played in last year do not offer the Major Division.

Does anyone know if a 55Major team can play in 50AAA tournaments?



March 5, 2013
PattyMac
95 posts
Adiktiv Sports was accidently moved by SPA to Major plus. That mistake was rectified later today by Ridge Hooks.

Adiktiv Sports will be 50 major this year.

March 5, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
314 posts
Hey Tommy.55 major and 50AAA both have a 7 rating. So the assumption would be that you could play 50 AAA. As always defer to the office for confirmation.

I understand the issue about no Major tourneys but,your team (Smith's) can play 55 Major with anyone. You guys have 4 or 5 Major players plus George who was ASA MVP 55 Major.You and 2 or 3 others played 55 Major in the 2011 TOC.
March 5, 2013
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
ssusa staff- col 55 played only 1 tourney lost both pool games by more than 5 runs then lost both brackets games to the same team by 1 run and finished last how can you rate us maj on the one tourney? This year we may play in 2 tourneys so how can you determine our class on this. Thank you Monty 25 Col55's
March 5, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1008 posts
monty25 - Inquiries about specific teams are handled privately by the SSUSA Home Office. Please have your manager send an email stating his concerns and/or questions (assuming they are the same as yours) to George in the SSUSA Office. He is the person to talk to about ratings issues.

Just for the sake of factual accuracy, the Columbus 55's are rated AAA by SSUSA, and have been since June 22, 2010, your first event with us. You have not had a rating change at any time, up or down, in our association.

If you are maybe concerned about SPA raising your rating to Major on 2/25/2013, might it not be a better idea to take that up with them? We do not make their team ratings for them.

March 5, 2013
monty25
Men's 55
96 posts
Our Manager did recieve an e-mail from george morneo stated that we were moved to maj. Thank you
March 5, 2013
garyheifner
331 posts
R-12

Rating is the hardest thing the Staff has to do. They rate based on scores reported but often don't have knowledge of how that score was achieved.

My team is currently a 65AAA team. We had a decent year (2012)in qualifers (500). However, our winning scores did not reflect several of the opponents batting "18" guys and one very good team we beat batting "17" with their top four power hitters batting last.

Some would say, by the scores above, we are correctly rated. In reality, in the SSUSA ring tournaments, we were 4-5 in prelims and were 2-9 in championship bracket play. In vegas last year (65AAA)there was a huge difference between the top 12 or so teams and the bottom 12 who could easily have been rated AA. Heck, we got blown out by a 70AA team during the year.

Sometimes you gotta make a tough decision. My team is half 70s and most of the rest turning 69 this year. My wife overheard some players watching our game, say in Vegas, these Gray Sox used to be good but now they are playing old. "DAH" When considering the influx of 60s moving up to 65, we have little chance. We voted not to go to Vegas this year, but will hang in there and play 11 events anyway and use it as practice to get ready for 70s next year.

When making the rating changes, I hope the Staff considers what a team looks like now and not what they were 3 years ago. The best Major team in the Midwest got moved down to 65 AAA last year. We were all pretty pissed. Even though they have a really good player (and good guys) at every position they ended up pretty average. I guess it probably evens out in the long run.

The last thing is the opportunity to get rated. Many of you have been playing the 2013 season since January and are constantly being rated/observed. I have "8" inches of new snow in my driveway and we are still 2 months from our 1st adventure.




March 6, 2013
TommyC
16 posts
Thanks for the info on 55major and 50AAA both have a 7 rating and the kind words about our team. I think we can be competitive by moving up.

We would only try that if we can not find enough Major tournaments in our area to play in.

Monty, hopefully SPA will come to their senses. SSUSA only shows our team and Gonzalez being bumped from the teams that played in the tournament at Dalton. Good Luck
March 6, 2013
TommyC
16 posts
Sorry, meant to say "Thanks titanhd"
March 6, 2013
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
There are no 50s major teams in our state, there are no 50s major teams in Arizona(correct me if I'm wrong). There is only one near us.The Spurs from El Paso. That is why I hate the frequency and haste in moving teams around. With one decision, we lost all of our friendly rivalries with the teams from the Phoenix area. These teams beat us for a couple of years and we still had fun. We won some games last year. I'm sure they picked up a player or two and it's a good rivalry. The Bulldawgs picked up a guy or two and were very impressive. That's what makes it fun. Moving teams to Majors seems like a punishment. I would be interested to hear how many teams that got bumped to majors are happy and how many are having the same problems we are.I appreciate the Senior Softball staff. I just disagree with having all this criteria and making it so complicated. This leads to all of the confusion and frustration that we are experiencing. Make it simple. If a team wins the nationals and dominates the competition, move them up. Otherwise, leave them alone.
March 6, 2013
Renegade12
Men's 60
3 posts
Eviro-Vac - Thanks for that. We had some great games that were the best except the part where you guys were always kicking our butts. Those are the kind of games I will pay good money to travel to and play. But being overpowered in upper division, not so much.
March 6, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1936 posts
Bob-while I agree that there are no major teams here, and you know I faced the same problem you do, my realization is that there is very little good competitive softball played in New Mexico because there are very few complexes in the whole state, so you have to travel anyway. I think I spent about the same last year playing out of Phoenix as I did playing for the Desperados. You will still be able to play here when they do hold a tourney, you just might have to spot runs.
March 7, 2013
BobLaser
Men's 50
38 posts
I agree, Webbie. We like to travel to Phoenix or even El Paso but now we're going to have to travel to California and more distant places. I remember going to Prescott last year and feeling sorry for the major team Vatos Viejos because there were only 3 teams in their division. Now, we're in the same boat. I think we're just going to play non SSUSA tournaments like Pinetop and Silver City except for the World Championships.
March 7, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
784 posts
They didn't move up enough top Major teams to Major-plus to make it so the top AAA teams would WANT to move up to Major.
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