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Discussion: Eastern National Championships 2013 updates

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Aug. 4, 2013
rlspls1974
Men's 60
54 posts
Eastern National Championships 2013 updates
Nice job updating the brackets folks!
Aug. 4, 2013
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Fran and Dave and all of the staff great job at the Eastern National, great weather ( no rain) good fields, did a great job working with the teams. Look forward to see you in Vegas.
Don Ward
Superior Softball 60
Crystal Pharmacy 55
Aug. 4, 2013
rlspls1974
Men's 60
54 posts
Do we have the final results?
I know Dave controls the weather as well :)
Aug. 4, 2013
rlspls1974
Men's 60
54 posts
Jah#4 congrats on your Eastern National Championship!
Aug. 4, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
335 posts
Carolina A's won 50 Major.
Aug. 4, 2013
Sunshine1949
Men's 60
47 posts
Congradulations to the Syracuse Merchants for winning the 60 Major, we took them to the if game but they dominated us and deserved the win, best of luck in Vegas representing the East.

Sonny J.
Virginia Vilers # 12
Aug. 5, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Congratulations to all the teams that won and played in Raleigh.

After saying that something needs to be done about the balls used here in the south. We have high temps and high humidity and the balls used were like rolled up socks all weekend. I played in the 60 division and we hit 4 homeruns all weekend. Even the 50 major plus teams were not able to consistently hit it out. Every team that i talked to complained about the balls.

Please SSUSA staff consider other options than the trump stote ball for tourneys here in the south. No fun to hit a rolled up sock. 95 degrees and 100% humidity makes for no fun with the stote balls. I know i am not the first one to say this about those balls. If it is an expense thing i guarantee that teams will pay the diffence for a better ball as most tourneys are hit your own now.

I'm just saying.

PattyMac
Aug. 5, 2013
rtm
5 posts
Just to add my 2 cents on the balls used in Raleigh this past weekend....It was fun to play softball again. No cheap Home Runs. The guys that should be hitting them did, and the others had to play the game. Line drives still came off the bats hard. Fly balls were often tracked down and caught. Also, the games stayed on schedule. Once again, just my 2 cents.
Aug. 5, 2013
Perl
107 posts
We had the same situation in Gadsden a couple weeks ago. The ball was horrible. It seems the guys that just poke it around don't mind hitting socks while guys that hit it hard prefer hitting a good ball.

I bet if all the organizations went to hit your own ball you wouldn't see many socks being hit.

RTM, when teams like Hollis hit four HRs in five games your statement about the guys that should be hitting HRs were hitting them is definitely not correct.
Aug. 5, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
you guys should tell Mad dog and Tattoo ball about hitting socks! LOL
Aug. 5, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
again 95 degrees-trump stote ball = crap...use the 52 and you'll have a ball that plays well with the heat...we do here in texas from may till sept with that type heat and humidity no problem....

again sftf has no clue.......
Aug. 5, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
I have a clue your AAA at best!
Aug. 5, 2013
the wood
1086 posts
Swing,
If your only two choices were a 52/300 and a 44/285, which ball would you prefer to hit?
Obviously, we are speaking hypothetically here. Therefore, brands are not important.
So which would you prefer?
BW
Aug. 5, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
BW I never hit the 44 285 so I couldn't tell you.. I can only go by what I have hit in league! I have never hit the 52/300 with a senior bat. I also can say we did hit it on a 90 degree day with an ASA bat and it was so so.. There are only a handful that want a ball change so I'm not going to talk about it anymore. waste of time.
Aug. 5, 2013
the wood
1086 posts
Swing, when a Stote 44/375 is used in 90 degree heat it is really a 44/285. We played in the Cal Cup last month when it was 95 so we were using a 44/260 ball (in essence).
I'm not a ball salesman but, given a choice, I'd prefer a 52/300 over a down graded Stote.
But a Rock is a better choice yet.
BW
Aug. 5, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
I will take your word for it BW... when it's that hot they should use a heat friendly ball for sure.. We could still hit homers with the stote ball but you had to get it pretty good!
Aug. 5, 2013
the wood
1086 posts
There were zero HRs hit in our division
Aug. 5, 2013
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Omen 65 Major Plus did not come close to hitting a home run in 6 games. However, I saw Ruth hit several in the Major class. The ball did not appear to be carrying much so line drives were imperative.
Aug. 5, 2013
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Bob, who did you play with?
Aug. 5, 2013
the wood
1086 posts
LL, I was referring to the CalCup last month. We/I weren't @ the West natls. BW
Aug. 5, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
mmm bobw i guess sftf doesn't want a clue....the only reason the balls in vegas go,are that they are the old MCT type balls....44's that have an outer portion of the ball that when tested,tests to 375...it is the reason MCT's feel soft....trump had found a way around the compression test with a soft outer part of the ball......that is why it was banned by the assoc's....


oh by the way sftf..i have played in all levels and did ok.....so think whatever you want to,and go back to crying about how you can't hit....
Aug. 5, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
I don't cry Mad Dog! Think what you want to think, I know you are a AAA player at best and you can't carry my jock strap... Keep up the attacks on me, shows everyone what a tool you are!
Aug. 6, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
hey whatever you say...just to let you know,i don't like guys..so your gonna have to get someone else to carry that tiny thing of yours....
Aug. 6, 2013
Mulewhipper
68 posts
Looking forward to Nor Cal Warriors (Western Major Champions) playing the Carolina A's (Eastern Major Champions) in Vegas...should be great fun.

Aug. 6, 2013
tattooball
620 posts
Bob W
It is actually lower than that the math is correct but a .44/375 ball is between 330 and 360 compression new. 375 is max allowable, poly cannot be controlled that closely. So if you do h math based on a 345 lb ball on average you will see they are much lower. The only ball tat is not effected by the heat is a high cor ball.
Aug. 6, 2013
the wood
1086 posts
I stand corrected. Perhaps that is why there were no HRs hit (the lower starting point).
BW
Aug. 7, 2013
Mario
Men's 50
381 posts
In Dalton this year it was 100 degrees on Friday and they were using a 44/375 and it was just fine. 44/375 are affected by the heat , but so are all balls. I think they should always use a 44/375.
Aug. 7, 2013
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Mario, I believe that the balls we used were the Baden Fire #2SB550YS. They have 44 375 in a red circle. A couple of sites like ebay advertise them as maximum 44 core and 375 compression. However, the majority of the sites advertise them as 47 core and 550 compression. The 44 and 375 were advertised as minimums, not maximums. They are to be used in outlaw leagues and home run derbies. Note the 550 in the model number. I bought two dozen last year and they are as hot as any 525 compression ball I had. I really don't know what they really are, but they are much hotter than any other 44 375 balls I'm familiar with. The exception being the 2005 Decker Sharks. LOL
Aug. 8, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
If indeed the Baden Fires are 47/550, there no wonder there were so many hrs hit in Dalton!
Kevin, are you able to comment on these balls?
Aug. 8, 2013
tg69
309 posts
Swing, in an above post you stated that you could still hit HRs with the Stote ball in the heat BUT you had to hit it pretty good.My question is, Just how easy should a HR be to hit??????Should we be able to change balls if the wind is blowing in on the field your game is on also???????? How about if you have played 3/4 games already that day and you just dont have the energy you had that morning can we put in a hotter ball just so we can take a HALF SWING and Still hit a HOME RUN ? Guys, there should be more to this game than just hitting HRs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Aug. 8, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
TG69.. first of all, not every HR ever hit has to be hit on the screws! If you know me, I appreciate great D above even hitting! That being said, do I think half swings should go out of the park? NO! I believe that if I get enough of the ball it should go out and it does for me, most of the time depending on wind and softness of the balls!

Now TG69 if you were at the Calcup and western nationals.. you would find that HRs were down and runs scores were down and defence was at a premium... I didn't have a problem with that combination of bat/ball and most didn't complain! I would have an issue if it was dumb down to another level which would of been hitting pillows! FYI
Aug. 9, 2013
leftyfalcon
Men's 65
158 posts
I know where ya'll get the info. I hit new 18 fire ball badens and 9 dudley zy's 44/375. The fire ball badens don't hit further than the dudley zy's. I think if the umps keep the balls out of the sun it would be a better tourney. I'm like patty mac and perl give us a few balls and we'll buy the rest when they get mush. When you can't hear the ball when you hit it. It's time to change balls.
Aug. 9, 2013
tattooball
620 posts
I am but I won't. They have been tested, all I will say is that all of our softballs are in compliance with what is marked on the ball.
Aug. 9, 2013
surf88
Men's 60
885 posts
To the Syracuse Merchants: Congratulations!! Do any of you know and/or play ball with Bob Cooper? I played with Bobby (Coop) here in Colorado in the 90's and early 2000's before he moved back east. Would sure appreciate you passing my best wishes to an old and good friend. Miss him. We turned a lot of infield plays together.
Ed
Aug. 9, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
Steve Imlay and I were discussing the ball situation in Sacramento yesterday. To hear that Hollis hit 4 HR's in 5 games, and we hit 17 in 7 games with the personnel on these two teams, is remarkable. In Vegas, I think we hit almost that many in one game, and in Dalton we played games like 45-38, 38-24, etc. compared to 11-6, 15-14, in Sacramento. No doubt it is not all game wind conditions. It has to be the consistency of the balls. I think the keyword here is consistency. We get used to hitting in a hitters environment and when it is not, we get cranky. We work on our hitting expecting certain conditions. Maybe we need a 'fridge' at each field at these hot tourneys with the Stote and the umpires can regulate the temperature of the balls. Since that's not likely to happen-(lol)-maybe we learn to expect these 'sock' tourneys, adjust, and accept it.
tg69-good point about the hr's, but I would be interested to know what percentage of seniors really can hit home runs consistently. A breakdown of 50's, 60's etc. would be an interesting stat to study. We have a reasonably powerful team in 60 M+. For the year we have averaged about 6 hr's a game. We don't have anyone averaging one a game, although Art Tressler is close. Outside of a small percentage of teams, is it really that easy for seniors to hit HR's, even with these bats? Or is it a select few that seem to do it easily that gets this discussion going?
Aug. 9, 2013
put me in coach
5 posts
surf88..I play with Coop in our town league and he's still got it. I'm trying to convince him to play in the Northest
Champioships(probably against the Syracuse merchants).I read this board alot and mention to him about your posts. He talks highly about his times in Colorado. I'll pass along your greetings.
Aug. 9, 2013
gott2play
Men's 55
146 posts
SSUSA,

Having just seen the results of the Eastern National Championships, I noticed that Florida Automated Shade won the 50AAA division. If my memory serves me correctly, they won the TOC for 50AAA in Feb 2012. They were bumped to Major prior to the TOC (Jan 2012) and played the remainder of that year at the Major level.

Prior to the bump, they won the Winter Nationals in Nov 2011 (start of 2012 season) to qualify for the TOC in Feb 2013. My old team, the Desert Dawgs played them at this TOC and found them to be rated properly (we were rated Major also).

So, my question to SSUSA is...what was the rationale for their being re-rated to AAA? Unless they lost all but 3 players, the team and their players should still retain the Major label, that's the general rule isn't it? I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just curious.

Tony Baltazar
So Cal 55's - Major
Aug. 9, 2013
audieh
Men's 60
242 posts
Webbie, here is my take for what it is worth. We built our team on speed and power in order to compete on the east coast. The balls in Raleigh did not perform well in the heat. Basically, our power hitters were struggling and did not adapt to the balls by trying to hit base hits. That was our fault and it sure limited our fun. Riding back home for 8 hours it made me wonder if we should limit our playing in June, July and August when it is miserably hot and the balls are soft. After all we play for the fun and sport of it and if you are not having fun!!!!!!

That said, we are totally looking forward to playing in Vegas in late September, the Villages in October and the Winter Nationals in November to finish the year. In the meantime I will be practicing a lot more hitting the 5/6 hole, and the middle!!!
Aug. 9, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
if ya wanna still hit them out in the heat,ya need to get rid of the 44-375 trump stote ball....look at what kevin has posted above about this spec ball and heat....we use the 52-300 ball in the heat here in texas(for the last 2 years)and are having no problem with the hr hitters hitting them out in our senior league...the kids in the mens open div's are banging them out also,and in the hi loop they play on a 325' fence,all other's are 300'.....it WILL NOT let mishits be hr's,but that is the way it should be anyways,unlike what we have with our senior combo now,that rewards mishits at times....

also the ball(micro cell technology,aka the MCT BALL) that is used in vegas is NOT allowed in any other assoc b/c of it's make up that was designed to get around the ball testing,which the assoc's finally caught onto...


webbie i'll see ya in st george...good luck and rest that leg......
Aug. 9, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
audieh-wondered if you would say something-it was the same here. We scored 6 and 14 on Sunday-and we were playing well up until then. We built more on the power side too. When 4 hr's in 7 games leads your team, wow.
Mad dog-I won't be in St. George-had to pull out because of my lost job and no new job yet. And I had all the time compensated for at CES. Good luck there.

I also am working on the 5-6 hole-and this nagging disappearing act (offensively) I pull for 4 or 5 at bats in a row this year, and then suddenly get hot the other way with several HR's in a row-go figure that??? Getting old, I guess.
See you in Vegas.
Aug. 9, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3938 posts
sorry to hear that mark....was looking forward to playing on the same team together....good luck with the rest of the season.....
Aug. 10, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
Me too, mad dog-I talked to Jim several times and finally decided I had to make that call early to give him time to replace me. It is unfair to my family to take a week for a tournament when not working. See ya soon.
Aug. 13, 2013
lgoehrig
Men's 50
1 posts
Since someone mentioned about AAA and Major, I have a question. I just turned 50 and am new to this division. I really like it compared to the kids version with all the complaining and shaved bats. So my question is what constitutes a major team versus a AAA team. Is it based on the ability to hit home runs? If you are AAA and win a lot but never hit a home run, should you get bumped up? Thanks.
Aug. 13, 2013
gott2play
Men's 55
146 posts
Lgoehrig,

Since you're new to this division, you'll "learn on the job" about team ratings. Most teams new to senior softball start out as a AAA team and can get moved up or down based on their performance against the competition over a number of major tournaments. Most recently, there has been some re-rating of teams that have left people scratching their heads or asking questions. After Vegas last year, a lot of teams (some that didn't even make it to Sunday) got bumped to Major. FYI, there were alot of HR's hit in Vegas.

Like I said in my earlier post, I don't have a dog in the fight. Was just looking for some clarity from SSUSA (which I got) regarding rationale. Personally, I started out in 50AAA 7 yrs ago, got bumped to Major after 2 years, and currently play both 50 and 55 Major.

Best of luck to you.

Tony
Aug. 13, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
Lgoehrig, the difference between AAA and Major and Major plus is there are simply better teams as you climb the latter. More power as you go up and much better Defense! it's that simple..
Aug. 13, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
lgoehrig, not just power but dangerous hitters throughout the lineup and when Swing says defense, he means defense. As a pitcher, against AAA teams, I find there is often a drop-off in hitting ability after the 6 or 7th man in the lineup. In other words, the bottom of the order are often comparative easy outs. And as far as defense, my team gets on base more than a couple of times in AAA because of an error.

When I pitch against Major, there are usually good hitters in the entire lineup. You have to work for every batter, and it is not unusual to see a power hitter batting 9th or 10th. Also, errors are rare. If an outfielder can reach a ball they almost always catch it. If the shortstop can get in front of a grounder, it is likely going to be an out at first.

When I pitch against Major Plus, there are never easy outs. Even worse, there can be home run power throughout the lineup with maybe a few exceptions. And the defense is quick defense, defense that gets to the hole and makes the play where a Major 3B or SS would not quite get the ball, or if stopping it, be unable to make the throw. And almost all Major Plus players can run for themselves.

One quick example. Our Major team is playing up in a seeding round against a Major Plus team. I am catching this game and they are slamming our pitcher around with a couple over the fence in the first 5-run inning. Not our pitcher's fault, they're just monster hitters. In the second inning, a skinny little guy comes up who is the last batter in the lineup. He is a lefty, and a strong 20-mile wind is blowing in from right field and we are on a 320 foot field. He fouls off the first pitch to his left. "Finally," I think, "a batter we can get out". He takes a ball. Then he hits one, into the wind, that easily clears the fence and goes about 340 before landing. This is a Major Plus team!
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