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Discussion: Play at first

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Aug. 21, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
Play at first
This is one I could not find in my rule book. It happened in a little league game and I realize with the double base it is unlikely to happen in Senior ball, but I was curious. I was watching in a bar having dinner so I could not hear the commentary.
The runner going to first stepped squarely on the first baseman's foot and it looked like it never actually touched the bag and the throw arrived at about the same time-very, very close play. They apparently reviewed it and reversed the safe call made by the umpire on the field. Was it because they determined the throw beat the runner, or was it because he stepped on the first baseman's foot instead of the bag? Is the foot considered part of the bag at that point? I would think so, but I don't know. The foot was in the middle of the bag so the runner really had no choice. Stick8?
Aug. 21, 2013
stick8
1282 posts
Webbie as far as I'm concerned a runner stepping on the foot of a first baseman who's foot is in the middle of the bag is part of the bag. I'm not familiar with the play you described but it illustrates a good reason to have the two first bases--safety.
Aug. 21, 2013
BruceAZ
Men's 60
89 posts
Not sure about the foot being part of the bag. As a SS I've taken throws from the outfield and had my foot blocking 2nd base, runner slides into my foot, which is touching the bag, but the runners foot never reaches the bag and the runner is called out for not touching the bag, so I don't know how it works for 1st base when the foot is on top of the bag.
Aug. 21, 2013
stick8
1282 posts
Bruce your referring to blocking the bag with your foot. In this case the firstbaseman's foot is planted square in the middle of the bag and the batter-runner plants his foot on top of it.
Aug. 21, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
1st off I do not think any umpire has good enough vision to say that the runner stepped on the foot and at least some part of his cleat or foot did not touch the bag.

And this would be an appeal play anyway. He would have to appeal the runner miseed the base and tag him before he got back to the base.

Rule the runner is assumed to have touched any base once he is beyond that base and has to be appealed
Aug. 21, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
733 posts
Only at the LLWS would this have been possible because:

The original call was safe and overturned on replay that the runner did not touch the base. The reason the call was over ruled was because the foot is not part of the bag. Same scenario if you drop a knee on a slide or block the base with your foot on a pick off. (providing you have the ball)

In the world most of live in, your only opportunity would have been as Garocket stated: Umpire ruled safe, defensive player tagged runner prior to returning to the base and appealed runner never touched first. If umpire agreed the runner only touched his foot then the call could be reversed on a misinterpretation of the rule.
Aug. 21, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Not following you on the last sentence

Adult slowpitch question

Runner beats throw to first but steps completly over first a split second later the ball arrives and the 1st baseman catches the ball
Does the Umpire call the runner out?
Aug. 21, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
733 posts
Because B1 beat the throw, she is " Considered Safe". The Umpire should never POINT OUT a missed base by the offensive team. The defensive team must make a proper appeal that B1 missed first base before she returns to the bag. (NFHS rules 2-1)


Therefore in the thread above runner safe, unless appeal made prior to returning to the base. Because they have instant replay, even though the runner returned, it could be determined that the runner touched only the foot. In my scenario, no instant replay, runner could only be ruled out after regaining the base, if the umpire had interpreted the rule incorrectly and ruling was appealed.
Aug. 21, 2013
BudLeftField
56 posts
I think the first basement who has his foot in the middle of the bag while taking a throw could be called for defensive interference. The batter/runner is entitled to step on first base. Some common sense should prevail,as the first baseman's foot on top of the bag is posing a risk of injury to both players.
Aug. 21, 2013
BudLeftField
56 posts
Sorry-should be baseman, not basement.
Aug. 21, 2013
Webbie25
Men's 60
1972 posts
It was the LLWS-Mike you answered my question as to why they reversed the call. I could not hear the commentary. But I did think the foot on the bag would be considered part of the bag at that point. BudLeftField-I think in the case of 12 and 13 year olds you have to give a little extra consideration to the fact that they are not as accomplished yet at covering the bag from the edge and maybe the runner is not quite as in control when he tries to step on the bag. I guess my biggest surprise was that they were apparently using the instant replay for the LLWS.
Aug. 22, 2013
BudLeftField
56 posts
Hi Webbie25-You make a good point that the players are inexperienced. As stick8 says-this is a good reason to have two first bases.
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