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Discussion: Vote on Changing SSWC Format!!!!!!!!

Posted Discussion
Sept. 29, 2006
Terry H
5 posts
Vote on Changing SSWC Format!!!!!!!!
We need your opinion.

After receiving many comments on the 4-day format of the Senior Softball World Championships, we decided to poll players on their preference.

Currently, the SSWC format is six games; 4 Round Robin Seeding Games into a straight double elimination. Thsi format usually takes 4 days because of the large divisions.

What do you think about a 5-game guarantee over three days? The format would be two seeding games into a three-game guarantee bracket (that means all teams would play three games in the bracket and would have to have at least two loses to be eliminated).

Please respond on the message board. We will let you know the results on the board and in the November-December edition of Senior Softball News.

Thanks

Terry Hennessy
Sept. 29, 2006
rabbit
Men's 65
294 posts
HI Terry, I like the three game seeding starting on Friday and playing all seeding games on SAME day, then into DE, starting on Saturdayif you play a 5 game gaurantee. and with a lower price , or better yet, just a 2 game seeding on Friday and then start DE on Saturday with a 4 game guarantee a LOT lower price.
Rabbit, Indiana Classics 50 AAA
Sept. 29, 2006
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
406 posts
I like the 4 game seeding round. With the travel cost and time to get to the tournament, we might as well maximize the playing time and number of games. Most of us only get a couple of chances a year to play teams from remote parts of the country. Why not make the most of it.
Sept. 29, 2006
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I have never seen a DE bracket set-up where 2 losses eliminates you, yet you are guaranteed 3 games. How does that work.
I prefer 3 seeding games (5 game guarantee) on Friday followed by the DE on Saturday-Sunday. The 3 games allows you to play your subs in several of those games. Only a few of the teams play only two DE games. The teams that are gone in two DE games are usually the teams who get a terrible bracket draw or have had some key injuries in which case Miller Time looks pretty good and 5 total games are more than enough. Most will play 6 or more anyway.
Sept. 29, 2006
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
I too would like the 3 seeding games on Friday, with the DE begining on Saturday.
Sept. 30, 2006
armiho211
Men's 70
398 posts
terry, 3 seeding games on friday, 2 DE games on saturday, championship games sunday, thanks
Sept. 30, 2006
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
382 posts
I agree with Texas Trans.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"I like the 4 game seeding round. With the travel cost and time to get to the tournament, we might as well maximize the playing time and number of games. Most of us only get a couple of chances a year to play teams from remote parts of the country. Why not make the most of it."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Leave it the way it is.

Jim Klassen, Manager
Enviro-Vac - AAA
Sept. 30, 2006
Pudge
32 posts
Would prefer 3 seeding games on friday, with DE games starting on Saturday.

Mtn. Mikes Legends - 50 AAA
Sept. 30, 2006
TonyA
Men's 60
2 posts
Hey Terry; My vote is for a 3 day tournament. 3 seeding games on Friday and DE starts Saturday. With travel cost and needing to take the extra day off from work has become a big issue with my team.

Tony A.
Palm Springs Heat
55 AAA
Sept. 30, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2586 posts
I like 3 rr games on Friday, starting the de games on Sat. I also would like to see more games under the lights, at least for 50's and 55's.
Bruce Fairchild
Specialty Tank 50 & Allstate/Miken 55's
Sept. 30, 2006
turn2
484 posts
i like the 3 games on friday w/ de on sat and sun. i woild like to play any games at night, at least for the 55's/.
thanks,
donnie chavis
turn two / rekco
55 major plus
Sept. 30, 2006
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
406 posts
Terry,

You should look at this by age group and classification.

I can why a tem playing in a classification like 50 Major+ wouldn't want to take an extra day off to come play RR games with the same 3 or 4 teams they will see in the DE.

On the other hand, teams playing in the older age groups aren't as concerned about time off (although, some, llike me still work) and have the opportunity to play teams they only see once a year.

Then there are some of us who want to play as many games as possible, whenever possible.

Maybe there isn't a one size fits all answer for this question.
Sept. 30, 2006
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
406 posts
Terry,

You should look at this by age group and classification.

I can why a tem playing in a classification like 50 Major+ wouldn't want to take an extra day off to come play RR games with the same 3 or 4 teams they will see in the DE.

On the other hand, teams playing in the older age groups aren't as concerned about time off (although, some, llike me still work) and have the opportunity to play teams they only see once a year.

Then there are some of us who want to play as many games as possible, whenever possible.

Maybe there isn't a one size fits all answer for this question.
Sept. 30, 2006
the wood
1071 posts
Terry, I appreciate your putting this out to the masses. We prefer 3 days and 3 seeding games. As you know, we reduced our 4 seeding games to 3 before we arrived in Seattle as all of the teams in our division agreed to it. It seemed to me that none of us felt slighted at all.
Maybe Texas Transplant has a good point though as it realtes to the older age groups.
Thanks, Bob Woodroof, GSF
Oct. 1, 2006
DoubleL10
Men's 65
797 posts
Commenting on Donnie's suggestion about night play for the 55's, I think the 60 and higher age groups would prefer day play to night. I know my eyes aren't nearly as good after dark as they used to be and I just don't see the ball as well anymore at night.

I saw a 70+ game in Plano a couple of years ago that was finished under the lights due to prior games running late. It seemed that every fly ball to the outfield was not caught because the guys could not pick them up! The last inning must have seen 10+ runs for each team.

This is another area that should probably be looked at on an age basis.

LL
Oct. 1, 2006
Lefty
Men's 65
452 posts
I prefer 3 days and 3 seeding games and good balls.
Oct. 1, 2006
bogie
Men's 55
141 posts
I don't mind an extra day for the worlds but would prefer the eastern nationals and midwest championships be Friday, Saturday and Sunday...with 3 games RR then the DE. Just the same teams basically here and no need to stretch it out the extra day. As a 50 age group, I still prefer limited nights if possible.
Ken VB
Roberts Construction
Oct. 2, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Terry and the rest,
Hey Bogie, too.

Yes, 3 games beginning on Friday
is a better.
Oct. 2, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
And Terry,
when you get a chance
we need a full and complete accounting
as to what happened in Seattle regarding those 2
illegal and confiscated bats.
Oct. 2, 2006
OREO
Men's 60
88 posts
NOT ALL 60'S FALL ONTO THE CATEGORY THAT
ALLOWS PLAYING ANY TIME. SOME OF US STILL
WORK & HAVE TO TAKE OF WORK FOR TOURNAMENTS STARTING ON THURS OR FRI.
VOTE FOR 3RR ON FRIDAY & START WITH 2DE
ON SATURDAY. NIGHT GAMES ARE OK, MAYBE
THERE WOULD NOT BE AS MANY COMPLAINTS
ABOUT HEAT.
Oct. 2, 2006
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
588 posts
You do have to admit that the 6 game guarantee is a good deal especially for the price compared to other national tournaments. 4 days is fine for nationals only, not reginonal nationals. If we have five games, I prefer 3 seeding games with double elimination over 4 seeding with single elimination. I prefer two days in all other tournaments if enough fields are available. Lansing could have been done in two days if some night games were played. So many three day tournaments this year made it tough for everybody on scheduling with minor things, like work.
Oct. 2, 2006
Dbax
Men's 60
1223 posts
3 seeding games. Then double elimination.
Oct. 3, 2006
RedEye
Men's 55
92 posts
3 Days............Please
RR games on Friday with DE tourney starting Sat.
4 or 5 game gaurantee...........
Oct. 3, 2006
MikeC
Men's 55
38 posts
Once the DE starts most teams cut back to 10-12 players with the 4 pool play games it gives you a chance to play everyone on your squad. So I am in favor of the 4 pool play games at Nationals or Worlds. At the smaller regional tournaments let's try and keep them to 2 days.

Please nothing under the lights I agree with DoubleL10 my old eyes are BAD under the lights.
Oct. 3, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
no 4 days please. fri 2-3 games all games maj + if possible and start double on sat. no lights please
thanks
hank
Oct. 3, 2006
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
For 60’s: 3 days of actual play only!

o Leave for the tournament location venue on a Thursday;

o Play 3 pool games on Friday to get kinks out, seeding requirements, playing of entire roster etc…;

o Then begin a “Triple” elimination tournament first thing Saturday morning which may demand using your extras during the day instead of them sitting the remainder of games like in double elimination format.

o Play most of the daylight hours but not into the dinner hour; make good use of idle field capacity during Saturday and Sunday.

o TE tournament does require an extra loser bracket… but it’s not that complicated and ensures that it will take more games to win loser’s bracket than winner's bracket;

o Do away with the “IF” game (e.g. College WS) on Sunday to get teams and players on earlier flights back home and makes the (1) Championship game winner take all more of a compelling game.

Bashbro1
Oct. 4, 2006
TotallyRec
Men's 50
32 posts
My vote would be for three seeding games on Friday and double elimination games starting Saturday.

Kevin Evans TOP GUN III 50+
Oct. 4, 2006
JOHN BOB
Men's 60
76 posts
I agree that 3 seeding games are all we need, but as far as playing the double eliminatin in 50-55 & maybe 60's aaa & aa for some world tournament's like sswc-spa or lvssa who have 15 to 30 team a 4th day would be needed.Also I have no problem with nite games as long as fields have VERY GOOD LIGHTING
Oct. 5, 2006
doubleplay10
14 posts
- 5 games guarantee.
- 3 RR Friday - start late for 50/55.
- Under lights ok only if GOOD and on EARLY.
- Sat & Sun (2 days - not Friday) if not enough teams for
a 3 day.
- More discussion with team managers re championship
round play or for finishing Sat vs. Sun.
- If a team leaves tourn early, w/o notifying director of their
expected absence for a Sun. game, there should be
a penalty.
- Please use better balls.
Oct. 5, 2006
LouieHawgs
Men's 55
2 posts
Terry: 3 RR games on Friday, with DE on Sat & Sun. 4 0r 5 game guarantee and few, if any, night games. Please have infields maintained at least every other game to include some WATER! Louie LaRocca - Base Hawgs 50AAA
Oct. 5, 2006
Wes
Men's 65
306 posts
Those Mid week tournaments are bad-bad-bad--Fri.Sat-Sun
are good. Number of guarantee games is second-5 is ok
6 would be better- DE is better than SE.
Louisville Iceman 65AAA
Wes
Oct. 5, 2006
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Terry:
5-game guarantee over three days would be perfect.
Thanks
Mike Kelly
Kelly's Sports/Worth 50 Major Plus
Oct. 6, 2006
lectricman
8 posts
terry coming from the east coast we would much rather play 4 days like it has been in the past . why don't you have it on the east coast occsionally then maybe all your west coast teams would see the logic in this. also the national championshp game should be part of pool play and held on friday rather than thursday to give east coast teams chance to adjust to time change and not have to play 3 games on the day after they arrive
Oct. 9, 2006
QC Softball
Men's 55
19 posts
Terry why don't you come up with two or three possible solutions and let anyone holding a Natinal SSUSA card vote on which one would work better. Give a deadline and if a member doesn't respond then they can't complain.
Oct. 14, 2006
Paul Smit
Men's 55
16 posts
Terry
I'm all for the 3 game seeding beginning on Friday and Double Elimination Play to start Saturday.

P Smit
Doubleplay
Men's 50+ AAA
Oct. 14, 2006
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Just something to consider about having 3 RR games Friday, then DE. Unless your playing night games, some teams are going to be playing late Sunday. Meaning, you either fly out late Sunday night or Monday. If you depart Monday, your still there 4 nights. Might not affect everyone but will some teams. Flights to some cities might not be available late Sunday. Correct me if this thinking is wrong. Just a thought and just my two cents.
GT
Houston
PS Hey Basbro, you been on vacation?
PSS Night games are nice except we can't see at night anymore in 60's. Some might say I can't see in daytime. Hope something is worked out to the players benefit.
Oct. 14, 2006
KAL
2 posts
Terry, I would like to play only Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
As a 50 Major+ team, we have people that can't take all this time off to play Thursday thru Sunday. In fact
this year, as you are well aware, we finished Saturday night and I had to incur significantly more expense by changing our fligts from 8PM Sunday (since we assumed that we wold be playing into the late afternoon Sunday) to noon on Sunday.
I would also like to find a solution to attracting more Major+ teams to national tournaments and I think cutting down on extra rooms for a night (times 16 to 18 players), an extra day for local transportation and eliminate the need to change flights that are booked months in advance would help.
I also would like to see a venue (maybe your website) where Major+ teams could exchange their season schedules so that we can plan better for attending a national tournament.

Thanks, Ken Lipinski SeaCrest Miken Mavericks
Oct. 16, 2006
DD
Men's 60
71 posts
The World Championships offer the only 4-day tournament that I'm aware of, and thus is a very special event. My vote is to keep it a 4-day event and to explore ways to INCREASE the minimum number of games---giving teams a chance to play up to 8 games before facing the trip home. As a couple of others suggest, this is one of the few times we're given an opportunity to play teams from other parts of the country and I agree we should take advantage of that. When the expense of traveling is considered, doesn't it make sense to play MORE games rather than fewer?
Oct. 17, 2006
SlowLearner
10 posts
I would go with the 3 day format even though it would mean some teams would be eliminated on Sat. if the brackets have 12 or more teams other wise it would probably run late on Sun. I would suspect this would save SSWC money as well as the teams enter fees. Also, saves players on hotel costs, so I think that is the way to go.

Oct. 20, 2006
Bermuda Punch
Men's 65
15 posts
It's obvious to me the 50, 55 and 60s prefer the 3-day tournament probably because in most cases they would only have to miss work one day since they usually play Friday, Saturday and Sunday. As a 65 soon to be 70 I would vote to play 4 days. Some of the reasons include at 65 and over recovery time is slower; usually hotel rates are lower (important because most are on fixed incomes); and the chances of playing under the lights is nil. Perhaps it would be best to have 65 and overs play 4-days and the 50, 55 and 60s 3-days.
Oct. 21, 2006
taits
Men's 65
4253 posts
The way you you worded it, works for me.
Oct. 23, 2006
TOMAR77
Men's 55
188 posts
The concensus of our Team, git-r-done, is that the current format of the World Series remain "AS IS".

The 6 games minimum, 4 days is what distinguishes and makes the Senior World Series special. For our team and the teams many of us played for in the past, our goal was always to try and attend the World's, which we considered the "Main Event".

Why make the World Series the "SAME" as all the "REST"?

Tommy De Rocher
git - r - done
Oct. 23, 2006
the wood
1071 posts
DD & Tomar77
A point of clarification... there are currently two major organizations that offer 4 day events. They are SSWC & SSWS... not counting the Huntsman Games.
This message board is sponsored by SSWC (Senior Softball World Championships) and its director, Terry Hennesey opened this discussion to see what the majority holds... be it 3 day or 4 day events. SSWS (Senior Softball World Series) is a totally separate association and is also known as NASCS.
This point of distinction has been made so that people do not confuse them nor consider them to be one and the same.
Regardless of what Terry Hennesey and SSWC decides on this issue, it is not likely to affect the SSWS events, which will still be 4 days.
Oct. 26, 2006
Diamond Fever
1 posts
We did not attend your World Championship this year, but did play in the two previous years. We like playing 3 or 4 preliminary games. This gives me a chance to give everyone more playing time. We like being able to play the West Coast teams that we do not see at most of the East Coast tournaments we play. We love your current format, but would not be unhappy with playing 3 prelim games on Friday and starting double elimination on Sat. We prefer not to play night games. Chet Young, Murphy's Law 55 Major
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