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Discussion: SSUSA AND SPA MEETINGS

Posted Discussion
Nov. 30, 2013
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
SSUSA AND SPA MEETINGS
Fellow ballplayers
SSUSA AND SPA are holding their annaul Board of directors meeting in the next few days. I am trying to use this message board to help me and other directors for player imput.
I am on SPA board and we meet in Dallas next week to look and make changes to make senior softball even better. We all have made rules and rules changes sometimes good ones and some not so good. So I am asking for YOU the player help us.
I know Terry, Frannie and even Dave listen and look at this board and use some idea's that sometimes comes up.
So if you have any suggestions let all of us know and I will take them to Dallas next week and we will discuss them.
thanks and HAPPY HOLIDAYS

Don Ward
SPA board of directors
Superior Softball 60's
Nov. 30, 2013
jwo-9
Men's 60
14 posts
Don this for your SPA meeting.It would be nice to see some coordination between associations on team ratings. Went to Dalton this year and found 7 of the 11 teams in our AA bracket were playing AAA in SSUSA and AA in SPA. 6 of the 7 finished in the top 7 places. That should tell SPA something about their ratings for those teams.
Nov. 30, 2013
LP
276 posts
my question is why not move the commitment line farther up the line,the present line is at 20feet from the scoring plate. no one is going to run 50 feet then back fifty feet to third, mske a more realistic commitment line and put it at least half way at 35 feet,forty feet even better then you have a real commitment line.I have been saying this for years,either move it to make a runner do some thinking or do away with it for as it is now there is no need for it.
Nov. 30, 2013
Lefty
Men's 65
465 posts
Don I would like ssusa to be like spa. A major team can pick up 1 player E or W of the Miss. I can play spa outside my boarder line with my friends but can not play ssusa.
joe falcon
panhandle 65 major
Nov. 30, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
LP,
I do do not believe they adjusted the commitment line when they forced the 70's foot bases upon us for the extra 5 feet. Not that 5 is a lot to adjust for other than running the based, but you do have a point.
It's not what the players want, its how to increase profit margin, by hook, crook or rule changes.
Nov. 30, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1125 posts
The commitment line adjustment is on the Rules Committee Agenda for next week. It was set at 20' when the base distance was 60', representing 1/3 of the total base distance. Many of the committee members are mentioning 25' or even 30', but nobody has expressed an interest in leaving it at 20'. Change should be expected on this item. In any event, we do not see an (imaginary) economic impact as a component of this field specification discussion.
Nov. 30, 2013
Duke
Men's 60
697 posts
jwo-9, I have never attended a SPA tournament, but have heard from many others, that playing one level down in SPA is quite common. Unfortunately, if you are a AA team per SSUSA, then there is no lower classification. It appears you only have 2 alternatives: 1) add 3 from a higher level for a SPA tournament, or 2) do not attend a SPA tournament. That is the way they operate from everyone that I have spoke to about this situation.

Andy Smith
Nov. 30, 2013
shortstopchic10
Women's 40
13 posts
Any thoughts to bringing a tourney back to the Nashville area? Once it was moved to Georgia my team stopped going.
Dec. 1, 2013
JohnBob
Men's 60
246 posts
Local league teams all players living within 50 or 75 miles of Mgr should be looked at different when it comes to rating than the teams that have players from all over the USA, especially in M+.
Dec. 1, 2013
Sweet P
Men's 60
168 posts
SPA/SS-USA, can you please publish/share with us the guidelines/procedure for requesting a player re-classification for medical reasons. Example, is an actual doctors letter required. What's the time table for applying, after the injury and before the season starts, during the season and or etc..

Thanks,
Phillip
Dec. 1, 2013
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Thanks guys and gals
good information to have on hand in Dallas for me and others. any more suggestion please send them to me or post them.
Don Ward
Dec. 1, 2013
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
I am surprise there is not any discussion on the Impact Player List for SPA . SSUSA does not have a list.
Dec. 1, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1125 posts
The SSUSA medical exemption/waiver is very simple: The player must convincingly demonstrate/prove that a medical condition has diminished his/her on the field performance to a level clearly below the standard of play that matches the player's rating experience history. NOTE: Simply having had surgery is not presumptive or conclusive, since many times such surgery improves, rather than diminishes, the player's physical condition and performance. Each medical exemption/waiver request is unique and not subject to a clearly defined single set of criteria. Accordingly, please contact the Sacramento Office at (916) 326.5303 and ask for George for insight or guidance on your personal circumstances.

Dec. 1, 2013
bullet
Men's 55
130 posts
I aggree with jwo,make the the ratings the same.If you get moved up in one group,it should automaticly move you up in ALL.NOT like you have a different team,in the other organization.
Dec. 1, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
324 posts
jwo-9 I tend to agree with you regarding SPA. Because they hold the Major tourney and the AAA tourney on separate weekends. A team can actually play in their Major tourney then go back the AAA weekend and play that tourney as well. It happened this past season. Not a team with the same name. The SAME team...
Dec. 1, 2013
JRthree
1 posts

This is my first year getting registered with SSUSA & SPA.

It took me 20 min to electronically send all the required info to SSUSA and pay my registration fee. The next day I received an email of confirmation.

I tried the same with SPA and the listen to ths process.

I was told by the SPA office I could send my two forms of ID electronically, but I must mail in my my registration form and my payment. The SPA office said its Ridge's requirement for first year players to send in the form & fee via snail mail. It seemd very outdated to me so I requested Ridge to give me a call.

Ridge called a week later and I couldn't get a word in edgewise.
When I finally got Ridge to listen I told him this is my first year signing up for senior softball ball but this ISNT my first rodeo signing up on line because I coach HIgh School Baseball and youth travel baseball where signing up players or teams on line is business 101 and simp,e for the organization and the customer. The registration process should be as easy & painless as possible saving both of us time & money.
The present SPA registration process is lacking compared to SSUSA, NFHS, USSSA, AAU, Top Gun, or Nations. In fact, simply comparing the SPA website to those organizations reveals an outdated SPA website.

Come on SPA - get with the times and make it easy for players to sign up & pay electronically. Think progressive! View better, & more efficient ways to conduct your business by looking at how others do it. Embrace change.

Dec. 1, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
204 posts
I would like SSUSA to make any division with less than 4 teams enter, to make that tournament a 2-day tourney instead of the current 3-day tourney, it just makes no cent for teams to travel out of town & make them play their games over 3 days!!!
Dec. 1, 2013
crusher
Men's 70
388 posts
rightrj1 - In most cases the org that puts the tour on gets a kickback from hotels that are on the online tour info list.
Nothing wrong with that. Also my experience is most tour's are 2 day except for nationals.
Even a 6 team and may be 8 team should only be a 2 day tournament during non-national play.

C
Dec. 1, 2013
audieh
Men's 60
241 posts
Don, sorry I missed you this week up in Ashville! One thing I would like to see is the SPA dropping the impact player list as it limits the teams that will come to the SPA in the major plus division.
Dec. 2, 2013
garyheifner
349 posts
In senior ball, you don't need a batters box to start the game. Waste of time and $$$ by the local park. By the end of the 1st inning it is gone anyway. All you need is the front line so you can't get closer to the pitcher. Doesn't matter where you stand to start, you have to defend the mat anyway.

Played at a park in Naples, recently. They had roll out/up rubber mats with astro turf type material that became the batters box with one on each side of the plate. Can't tell you how nice it is to actually bat on level surface for 7 innings instead of out of a hole or 5 inches of dust and dirt.

I would like to see the SSUSA and SPA encourage the park districts to look into these. They would save batters box area prep for games. Being selfish as a right handed batter, I would like the same surface the lefties usually get.
Dec. 3, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
Gary H. I disagree for many reasons but it is & has been a part of the game rules. Read rule 1.5 page 1, rule 7.3 and 7.3 (1) on page 39.
Dec. 3, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
204 posts
Crusher, I thought the kickbacks come from total teams entered or staying at a particular hotel in that city, still they are being sanction bye SSUSA...
Dec. 3, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
722 posts
SPA - I agree with Mr. Hollis. Major + is Major +, there should not be a limit to the number of impact players on a roster. If we have 7 this year, I would hate to have to ask one of the players to stay home so we could go.

SSUSA - I agree with rightrj1 - the economy is not back where it was and it might never be. 3 day tourneys are a burden financially and should be limited to high turnout events.

I am looking at playing more NCSSA events because of the 2 day venues.

Mike Adair
GSC 60 Major +
Dec. 3, 2013
miken44
78 posts
if you are ranked aa/aaa/major or major plus ia ssusa you should be ranked the same in spa or issa
Dec. 4, 2013
coop3636
57 posts
Here are a couple of ideas that should be discussed:
** change the age limits to 50-57, 58-65, then every 5 years
The 55 division is very small, and this would make the tournaments have more teams in each divison. (2 instead of 3) It would also let the associations make the tournaments more 2 day events than 3 day events (2 divisions takes less fields and time than 3 divisions)
** Make all the tournaments Sat and Sun only if possible.( it makes no sense for a 6 team divison to play 3 days) If players could save a little money on each tournament, maybe teams would be able to play in more tournaments or travel further.
** If possible, have complexes remove the pitching rubbers and just chalk a line. (I pitch and a raised rubber, or multiple rubbers in front on me bothers me more than anything) It is not that hard to pull up the rubbers and then replace them after the tourney.


Just my 2 cents worth.

Brett Cooper
Atlanta Monarch #36
Dec. 4, 2013
JohnBob
Men's 60
246 posts
Brett, I have been saying the same thing on changing the age limit for the last 5 years. Mainly in Major and Major+ cause of the low number of teams in those 2 divisions.
I have seen 2 or 3 team Tourney's be for 3 days. Makes no sense something needs to be done.
Dec. 4, 2013
L
31 posts
I do not think that most 65s would like to play a 58 year old team. They may be able to hit with them but the difference is in the defense with the speed and movement of the players. If the players are rated correctly and the tourneys are checked correctly you would probably have more teams. I know most teams don't have a person paying there way so they have to pick and choose closer to home and play a couple or so larger tourneys so that is why there are a lot of small tourneys with not very many teams and the combining of some of the tournaments and why you play each other so many times during the year. Most of us play for the exercise and the competion as we all want to stay healthy and live as long as we can.
Dec. 4, 2013
coop3636
57 posts
Then make the divisons:
50-58
59-65

That only makes the older group with one extra year.

I think most guys that are 55-58 still can play 50 ball
There is such a low number of 55 teams around, it just makes sense to combine the age groups.
Might have to try it in a few tournaments to see how it works.
Have and open roster for a couple of torunaments with these aga divisions and see how it works.
or put the question out to all the teams and players and see how the response is among everyone.
I plan on planning for many years and just would like to play in tournaments with more than 6 teams 9and mostly the same teams)
Cooper #36
Dec. 4, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
722 posts
The number of teams within a division, especially major+ increase and decrease annually.

In the Worlds 60 M+
2010-6
2011-4
2012-9
2013-9

55's
2010-11
2011-11
2012-8
2013-5

50's
2010-9
2011-7
2012-7
2013-11

It has more to due with the classification of teams than the number of teams. M+ will always be between 6 and 11. I have played this division for 11 years.

Mike Adair
GSC 60 M+
Dec. 4, 2013
JohnBob
Men's 60
246 posts
My suggestion years ago was 50-57 and 58-64 the 65 year olds would have the option of staying in the younger age group or going to 65 division. Most don't go to older age group the 1st year they are eligible anyway. The players card could still be the same as it is now, yearly or every 5 years. I don't understand why more teams are not screaming for this to happen. Heck there were NO 55 M+ teams at the winter nationals this year in Fort Meyers and only 4 teams in 60M and 4 in 60M+. Isa World this past July had 3 60M and 2 60M+ teams and NO teams in 55M+. A lot of the Tourneys like Northern and Southern Championships don't get enough teams to have a 55 or 60 M+ division.
Dec. 4, 2013
Airbosn
Men's 65
319 posts
Don,
1. There should be no joining state requrement for 70 year olds and above.

2. No home run limits for 70 and above.

3. Eliminate the impact player list or atleast identify the requirements for being selected to the list.

4. 1 courtesy runner per inning.

5. Third strike foul ball should be a live ball where runners can advance.

6. Use the 52 core ball in all associations.

Len
Dec. 4, 2013
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
416 posts
Courtesy runner must be inserted as soon as a batter reaches base, before the next pitch is thrown. Exception for injury occurring while running the bases.
Dec. 5, 2013
JohnBob
Men's 60
246 posts
This past Aug our team traveled over 2 hours to Indy to play in a SPA Tourney. We were the only 60M team and played the only 55M team best 2 out of 3. The sad part of this is the 55M team was from our own local League that we had already played 5 times. We did play the 2 60AAA teams Sat and got the #1 seed.lol Why do senior teams kept doing this ?
There seams to be good numbers in most age 50+ Tourney's, maybe the age group could be 56-62 and 63-69. Don has anything like this ever been brought up at one of your meeting?
Dec. 5, 2013
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
391 posts
Do away with the front of the batters box or change the dimensions. To many batters called out for striding forward. The dimensions work for a strike zone but using the mat reduces the stride forward area by about a foot.
Dec. 5, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
In the past I have suggested a home run derby at each qualifier. The winner(s) would advance to the finals at the nationals.
Details would be worked out, age divisions, rec/comp, entry fee, awards etc.
EV, I agree with the elimination of the front line of the batter's box. The pitchers have all the control as to where the batter will stand.
Dec. 5, 2013
curty
Men's 60
102 posts
i like the home run derby idea but how about the top hr hitters in each age division, @ major tourneys, be invited to the TOC for a Home Run Derby! And, batters box outs should only be called when hitting the middle. Courtesy runners should come from the on field lineup. Age groups are o.k., as I see a big difference between the top 50+ age teams to the bottom of the 60+ group.and even more noticeable @ the 65's. The good 50- 55 players are stronger, faster and fatigue less and slower than a 60 year old. Yet a good 60 can play 55, but there are few 60+ yr olds playing 50's.
Dec. 5, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
why is it the batters always want it their way,but will cry and whine when the pitchers ask for something...get over it batters,the damn ball comes at you at 20 mph max,and you know exactly where the ball has to hit to be a strike..your not at the whim of an umpire calling strikes like in call strike...let the batters box be.......learn to stay in it.....
Dec. 6, 2013
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Let Major+ rules go unlimited in everything, runs, HR's, players outside bordering states, etc. Let other teams that can't compete finacially with teams that have unlimited budgets play Major or below. Make the HR rule 8 in Major, 4 in AAA and 2 in AA. Over the limit would be DBO's in all divisions except Major+.
Dec. 6, 2013
Mario
Men's 50
367 posts
I agree with Jawood on the Major plus rules, but if you just did away with the impact player rule in SPA I could live with the rules the way they are. Why would you ever limit the best players in the top division? I would always go for unlimited HR's runs per inning and no run rule. Just like the old ASA super rules, but I also know the time limit will get in the way. I think there should be no time limit on games for the Plus division. The batters box should be moved forward the length of the plate. When they made the plate a stike they in essence moved the strike zone forward, but did not move the batters box. For some one as tall as I am, this creates more of an issue than for my shorter team mates. If you moved it forward the length of the plate this would resolve this issue. Or as someone stated above do away with the front line. Either one would work.
Dec. 6, 2013
JamesLG
297 posts


When a team plays down a division (Major plays AAA) for instance they are giving the lower team way too much of an advantage by giving runs, AAA HR rules and a defensive player in some cases. If the lower division team is even having a descent game it is hard to the upper team to make up the free runs. Give the lower team the choice. If you take the runs you play the upper team HR rule.

I also agree there is way too much time wasted on inserting courtesy runners. Make it quick or it does not happen. An ump should not wait on a batter to get in the box while he finds his batting gloves or farts around kicking the dirt. A batter should be ready to go or the ump start calling balls and strikes. With time limits the game must keep moving.

Thank You:

James
Dec. 6, 2013
stick8
1261 posts
I've long felt when a team plays someone one level below them there should not be any giving of 5 runs or an extra fielder. The only thing I would advocate is before the game give the lower team their choice of what home run rule they wish to play with.
Dec. 6, 2013
stick8
1261 posts
I've long felt when a team plays a team one level below them there should not be any giving of 5 runs or an extra fielder. The only thing I would advocate is before the game give the lower team their choice of what home run rule they wish to play with.
Dec. 7, 2013
obagain
Men's 50
56 posts
As far as the runner goes, the batter should notify the ump when he gets in the box that he will have a runner so the ump already knows, the coach already knows and the runner already knows and time can be called and the ump notify the scorer as soon as the player reaches base safely.
That way the coach cant milk the clock inserting a runner, if the runner is not on the field in a timely manner a strike will be imposed on the next batter.
Dec. 9, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
ob..i like your idea with one exception....if the runner is not there and waiting,there can be no CR for that runner....he has to go all the way around.......make the CR the base coach and he'll be there instead of having to come out of the dugout......
Dec. 11, 2013
Duke
Men's 60
697 posts
Jawood and Mario,

As some player on my team would like to say, "I concur!" If you want unlimited runs and no time limit, then you will need to pay extra fees. Not sure what amount for tournament fees, but definitely triple in umpire fees, because they will be there for quite a while. I would probably like to get dinner and bring it to one of those games and see how it goes. One game would most likely be enough for me. Good luck to you guys!

JMHO,

Andy Smith
Dec. 11, 2013
Laker24
Men's 50
5 posts
I've been playing SS for 4 years and I don't understand why the winners bracket has a coin flip to determine the home team. They should go by the seedings determined by the round robin games. Better seed gets the choice. It would put more emphasis on the RR games and the seedings. Loser bracket has a coin flip. Home team is a big advantage with the balls and bats that we are using, it shouldn't be decided by a coin flip.

Laker
Phoenix Tube 50's
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