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Discussion: Why Not Have A Players Committee Of Real Players To Over See The Rules

Posted Discussion
Dec. 11, 2013
BiggDan
Men's 50
9 posts
Why Not Have A Players Committee Of Real Players To Over See The Rules
We as players and coaches pay our fee's every year. Why not the players have a voice. They need real players input, not someone that sit's at a desk and make rule's. You have played all these years you should know. Let's form a Players Board Of Director's. What is your thought's on this subject.
Dec. 11, 2013
curveball
Men's 65
408 posts
I know 2 of the guys who were at the latest rule meeting and BOTH are players.
Dec. 11, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1320 posts
The 2013 SSUSA Rules Committee had 12 members present for the Annual Meetings this month. The chairman of the committee (SSUSA President Bill Ruth) exercised great care in developing and recruiting a balanced and representative committee membership.

Of those 12 voting members ...

ē Eight are currently active players (3 Major+, 1 Major and 4 AAA);
ē Seven are National Tournament Directors;
ē Three manage the teams they play with; and
ē Two are SSUSA National rated umpires

Of those five public members participating in the discussion ...

ē Four are SSUSA Tournament Directors (1 National and 3 Regional)
ē Three are National rated umpires; and
ē Two are currently active players (1 Major and 1 AAA)

Four Rules Committee members were unable to attend, but contributed written and verbal input prior to the meetings.

Of those four non-attending members ...

ē Two are currently active players (1 Major+ and 1 AAA)
ē One manages the team he plays with;
ē One is the SSUSA Vice President of Umpires; and
ē One is a National Tournament Director

Dec. 11, 2013
BiggDan
Men's 50
9 posts
Well with all the professional people that you have on your panel. Why could'nt you come up with a better rule than taking away the HR's as walk's , or even one up rule in Major and Major Plus. On the East Coast there are not enough teams to play Major Plus. You need to move more teams up to Major Plus or combine Major with them. Those two divisions should be allowed to swing their bats. Let the other classes use the DBO rule. As teams we pay a lot of money to travel to these tournaments, and pay the entry fee's. And then pay your fee's to join your association and have no say in the rules. These mask or helmets that you are not giving the players an option of wearing a mask or not. Plus they are having to pay $65.00-$75.00 for a mask. If you are making it mandatory you should pay for each teams pitchers equipment. If you want to shorten the game by HR's then go down on the prices of your tournaments.
Dec. 11, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Will SSUSA please break down how everyone voted in the DBO rule?

Since we live in America this should be an open discussion.

I for one can't believe that any of the players on the committee voted for this DBO change. Players votes should have more weight than tourney directors and others who are not playing anymore.

Please SSUSA respond.

PattyMac



Dec. 11, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1320 posts
11-0 (Chairman only votes to break a tie)
Dec. 11, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
I would like the names of the major and major plus players who are on the committee who voted for the new rule.

I will believe you on the vote but I can't believe that any major or major plus player on the committee would vote on a DBO rule.

PattyMac



Dec. 11, 2013
olie04
Men's 50
47 posts
SSUSA lets 11 people, (12 if a tie) who are affiliated with SSUSA, make rule changes that appear to only benefit the needs of SSUSA umpires,tournament directors, (who are the majority of voting persons). Sounds like changes are made with SSUSA and their needs being the priority rather than the thousands of players that comprise the customers of SSUSA.

How can 12 people possibly know what the majority wants? The decision to change the HR rule to DBO's is an economic choice made by the dictators for selfish reasons. Any other attempt to justify it is a flat out unethical lie. Thanks for the great customer service you special 12 have meted out.

Kim R. Oliverson (Ollie)
Dec. 12, 2013
Omar Khayyam
1004 posts
BiggDan, I agree with your opinion that home runs should not be DBOs. But careful with your other arguments. I have been reading for years on this site complaints that Major+ players go through 7, 8, 9 bats a year because of breakage and new models. A guy who is spending $2500 a year on bats is not going to complain about a mask for $60 that will last for years.
Dec. 12, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
The major+ & the AAA player are pitchers if the AAA player is from TX who I'm thinking of and also is a voting member (I'm not sure there), he too is a pitcher, they are only ones I 'know' who actually pitch some or most of the time and would have some idea what it like.
Others are catchers and other 'players'. Most do not play or seldom do if at all.

Another bad 'pitcher protection' decision as well as a HR rule. imo.

Isn't a large part of the game competitiveness on a fairly equal basis as it's been trying to do? At the same time defense as well as offense which is scoring runs. Scoring runs shouldn't mean DBO's especially when you have inning run limits.
Dec. 12, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
76 posts
No disrespect to the members who represent the voting committee (especially since I don't know who they are), but I don't think you represented the desires of the Major/Major Plus with the new rules. I don't really think any Major Plus players (long term - impact players) were really on the committee to express concerns over these rule changes. It sounds like we were represented by tournament directors and coaches - which arenít bad except we need the players swinging the bats to represent us as well!!!
I understand running this association is tougher than most realize but you really need to listen to your customers. You did a survey last year which I thought was a great idea and it was hard to argue with the results. I recommend doing the same thing with this issue.

SLi
Dec. 12, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
This is not a democracy. It is a business. Private business only responds to owners and or board members. If an organization desires to increase profit or market share they employ focus groups. The focus group results may or may not be adopted resulting in change.

At best - a player advisory committee is a focus group. If an organization wanted a representative focus group, they could take a representative from each division, each age group and in each area of the country. Thus 4 reps from the 50,55,60,65, and 70+ divisions, and x number of reps from the women divisions. I am not familiar with the participation rate therefore unsure of the actual number. Hold a conference in each area of the country (4) and come up with a consensus for changes if any. The recommendations would be evaluated by the ownership and determinations made. Slightly cumbersome, but more input on the front end as opposed to the method currently employed.

Bottom line:
Businesses respond to profit and loss, the only true measure of change will be the increase or decrease in participation rate and thus affected profit margin.
Dec. 12, 2013
Paco13
376 posts
Agree with Softball4b additionally if you don't like it play on another organization. ISSA as far as I know don't have that rule and they are not as strict as SSUSA is either. ISSA as I always say "you pay you play" kind of association heck for the most part they don't even check rosters. They don't have a MP rating you don't see anybody complaining about them. Heck in Myrtle Beach a 50M team registered as a Major team, the tourney only had three Major teams and two folded...so the remaining 50M was allowed to play 50AAA without giving any runs...of course thet won the tourney for which they are very proud. You don't here anybody complaining about it. We just go play hard and sometimes we win and sometimes we loose. We are rated 55M in SSUSA and 55AAA in ISSA and that is the case for a lot of team ratings in ISSA...Again no Major PLus team just AA, AAA and M. Great organization in my opinion.

JESUS TE AMA

PR NINJA OUT
Dec. 12, 2013
BoiseBat
Men's 60
5 posts
What would be the benefit to umpires or directors for a DBO?, just want a take on this.
Dec. 12, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Benefits for umpires and directors is shorter games less stress.

Paco13, our team will mostly play another organization this next year.

Just don't think it is right for the minority to control the majority.

Why the changes every year. All the new rules are incorporated to shorten the games, longer bases, DBO, etc.

Maybe we need a senior organization that is for the players by the players. I thought this is how SSUSA was originally formed.

Not a lot of thought was put into these new rules. Wish SSUSA had put out a questionnaire on this site to gauge the response to these rules before they let a 12 person committee make the final decision.

Terry please rethink this and make a move before the next year starts. More players against than for and that should help you change your mind.

PattyMac



Dec. 12, 2013
Tater50
Men's 60
336 posts
I hardly ever post; but why did 12 people decide the rule changes when there are thousands of members that spend thousands of dollars (some have been doing this for more than a decade)every year to play in the SSUSA?

With the computer: why could you not take a player poll on ALL these rules? At least: thru simplification; poll every coach & get the ruling of the majority of players on their team.

Would save ALL the flying, meals, gas, motel bill & etc for these winter meetings!!!

Just my $.02 worth. I have posted about the Player Poll for some time; maybe others will step up to the plate with me & see this thru.

You cannot fool the man in the mirror!!!
Dec. 12, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Tater50,
I doubt there has been even a handful of polls actually taken since SSUSA inception. I know of one a few years ago but none otherwise I can remember.
I have tried here and on the web site I did you you guys but they was a bust (not many really participated) and web site only had about 130 replies. It covered many subjects. I feel they are a very good tool to get input as well as ideas, but if no one or only a few percent participate, it serves not real purpose, since they are (then) ignored.
Not sure what the numbers were on the one I referd to a few years ago, but it was sent to mgrs only I believe.... not all managers ask their players so results can be skewed like most things if asked certain ways which many polls are...
But yes, they should†use them more often.
Dec. 12, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Forgot, There are around 500 teams or so and I doubt even half of that have players let alone mgrs that read or post on here and I'd bet they would need at least 20% to start posting their feelings about issues or 10 % not show up at events.
money is the trump card, keeps us playing and them in business.
Dec. 12, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
66 posts
ahhhh, these rule changes are such an Obamanation !! lol
Dec. 12, 2013
Rainmans
22 posts
The last survey (2013) was on adopting 1-1 Count which wasn't accepted. There should be more surveys to get the input from the players. As with all methods of data collection, surveys also come with a few drawbacks (i.e., not reaching everyone).
Dec. 12, 2013
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
I forgot about that one I remember some liking it in post the wrote though. I did not. Thanks for the note on it.
Dec. 13, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
76 posts
I would agree it's a business and they have every right to make a profit and I realize it's a tremendous amount of work and time to maintain an organization such as SSUSA. They have great people who are doing tremendous jobs of running a challenging task. They just pulled off an almost 500 team tournament and overall did an exceptional job. However as in any good business organization you should listen to customers and what they want. Profits and losses should reflect how well an organization does this.

As a good friend of mine would say, "Iím just saying."

SLi
Dec. 13, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
My friend Steve,

You know at our age we are looking at the end of softball careers so that is why I am so animate about these changes.

I have been lucky to have played on some really good teams when I was young and now as a senior. The competition and fun is what drives me to continue to play.

It just looks like to me that there was not much thought put into these decisions on the DBO. It would have been nice for Terry and the group to at least done some kind of survey on this. Could have been done at check in at Las Vegas with managers and players.

I still haven't talked to anyone who thinks this a good decision. My 50 team will not play SSUSA this year. Maybe if more teams took a stand like that maybe the powers to be would rethink this decision.

Who or what does it hurt to let major and major plus play with a walk??????

I'm just saying.

PattyMac
Dec. 14, 2013
halmany
19 posts
just my 2 cents, but how on one hand is SSUSA so worried about safety that it is mandatory for pitchers to wear a mask then turn around and declare excess home runs are dead ball outs, knowing that after the last home run anybody in softball will hit up the middle instead of making an out. If safety is first why not let all swing to keep the ball away from the middle.
Dec. 14, 2013
Tater50
Men's 60
336 posts
It does not matter your classification: how great your avg is; your strength; how many times U BP; how many HRs U have hit; there is not a PERSON on the planet that can say I will not hit the pitcher when I go up the middle!!

DBOs cause players to think of the middle!
I think (someone can correct me) that SPA did a survey last year about DBO's in any class & the majority voted against it!!

You cannot fool the man in the mirror.
Dec. 16, 2013
StevenL.Imlay
Men's 60
76 posts
PattyMac,

I didn't think I would have to worry about hitting HR's at the age of 65???

Las Vegas with the Rock ball with DBO's???

If they do a survey and the results states everyone wants DBO's then so be it. I just don't get the idea of not doing a survey.

We will adjust and do fine as will our teams but, just don't agree with the new ruling.

I'm just saying.

SLi
Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Steve,

I am with you on the survey.

Good luck my egomaniac friend. haha

I am with you my brother I guess I am one too.

I'm just saying.

Pat

ps. Still no response or explanation for the rule.

Dec. 17, 2013
Sparky.1
Men's 55
119 posts
Now "IF ONLY" the "POWERS TO BE" will read and consider these quality ideas and formats!!!!! Take it to Vegas they WON'T!!!!!
Dec. 17, 2013
Graphite
22 posts
As a spectator,I vote NO to the rule change....Pattymac,best to you and family through these holidays.
Dec. 17, 2013
LeeLee
86 posts
REALLY, you guys start a new thread to whine about the HR rule changed to DBO's. The best players in the nation play with a HR Limit and DBO rules but no, us senior guys can't.
Majority when did Major Plus teams and players become the majority their were only 11 50 Major Plus teams in LV, so what 15 players per team so a whooping total of 165 players majority LOL. If 33 of those players voted to change to the new rule that would be 20%, do you really think all 165 players would vote to keep the old rule. OH yeah I keep forgetting, ME MONGO, ME HIT BALL HARD, ME LIKE TO HIT HR'S. Really is that what this is all about, what about the other players you know the so called MINORITY they might like the new rule. There has to be more to the game than hitting HR's and not worrying about a guy's safety (AKA PITCHER MASK). Not one of you guys that have whined and complained about the HR rule has talked about anything else, you know like the bases being 70ft, and maybe our middle infielders might need a stronger arm or a little bit more range, since they will most likely be playing deeper. It's just all about me, who hit ball hard. Personally I would like to play more than 4-5 inning games and for the record I really don't care which HR Rule it used, I just like to play and I truly appreciate the opportunity to play with some of the best senior players in the nation, each and everytime. I am like a like kid, I get excited to play, like when I was in Little League and the rules for made to impact all players not just the hard hitting HR guys. It was team, made up of all different types of players and their was some stragety used, you know moving runs over into scoring position, playing fundmental defense, sh*t sometimes even taking a walk to get on by earniing it. No harm intended guys just MHO.
Dec. 17, 2013
titanhd
Men's 50
343 posts
Well said Leelee
I like to drive my Corvette fast. I donít like driving the speed limit. I like driving about 85 in the 50 without getting stopped or getting a ticket. Who cares? Thatís what I do. I did it when I was 16 and drove a Dodge now Iím 60 with this Vette I canít!?!
When I get stopped by the police Iíll just tell them. I donít like driving slow Ė I like driving as fast as this thing will take me. I put all that work in that engine ,change the oil once a month, polish it every day and now someone is telling me I canít drive it fast. I canít believe someone actually created this rule (law) where there is a limit to how fast I drive. This is my car. Itís MY car. I have friends that drive fast too and they donít like the rule either!
When I have my hearing in court, I sure hope there are 3 or 4 more of us speeders in the courtroom so that they can back me up. I hope that the Judge likes to speed too. I canít understand why they donít understand that itís best for me, my other speeder friends and the car that I drive fast.
If they donít understand and they give me a fine, I think that Iíll get the other speeders that were in the court room and my other friends that speed to back me up and see if we can get the Judge to start a survey to see if we can get this rule changed. Or better yet create a committee for us to make sure that I can drive fast. I canít drive slow. ďI donít need no limitĒ. Forget that everyone else has a limit, after all I am the majority and I deserve to drive as fast as I want to.
All tongue in cheek, but you get the picture.
Dec. 17, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
LeeLee I must have missed it, what M+ team do you play on?
Dec. 17, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
He plays on one of the few major teams that were bumped in the last few years and actually tried to compete at Plus.

I believe his new rule will help teams that get bumped to try the next level. Why? Because power very often is a big difference from one Division to the next and this GREAT RULE reduces the power advantage.
Dec. 17, 2013
Davy
12 posts
OK Lets try to make everyone happy with a new experiment for MAJOR PLUS teams playing other Major Plus teams.

Associations will poll Major Plus players for all rules except a maximum game time limit and a mandatory requirement that teams must pitch to their own team. If you hit your own pitcher, you are out end of inning. Also you chase your own balls.

That could cover bats, balls, home runs, courtesy runners, unlimited runs per inning, mercy rules, unlimited player eligibility, safety equipment, etc.

The rest of the divisions, Major, AAA, and AA will play with SSUSA adopted rules.

Any Major Plus team playing a Major division team will play by the Major division rules.






Dec. 17, 2013
LeeLee
86 posts
I play on one of the 11 50 M+ teams in LV this year and it was a blast.
Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
TERRIBLE RULE.

Still no explanation.

Make major and major plus one division.

Merry Christmas

PattyMac

Dec. 17, 2013
SSUSA Staff
1320 posts
@PattyMac: The Senior Softball News is about to go to press for the Winter 2013 Edition within the next few days. When it does, we will re-print a fairly comprehensive article addressing the four rules changes that seem to have garnered the most interest. Those include the new pitcher face mask rule, the minor modification to the home run rules for Major and Major+, the roster composition eligibility for underage players phase out for the Men's 75+ and 80+ Divisions and the new provision to govern the occasional matter of trans-gender athletes desiring to participate in the Senior Softball women's divisions.

Dec. 17, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
looking forward to it

thank you.

merry Christmas

PattyMac
Dec. 17, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2733 posts
Patty Mac and Paco, I see that Adictive Sports has been bumped to major plus.
Dec. 17, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
Reads like more then a few on this thread were on the adiktive team that averaged around 15 homeruns per game in their last ssusa event.

Could it be that you guys don't think you will be able to compete in Plus without playing a glorified home run derby?

Don't be scared...

Learning to be more then a one dimensional home run hitter is fun and challenging...

Learning to field...now that's a different story.

Welcome to Plus ball.....

It's very challenging....

As an example.....we/MTC hit 780 as a team in Vegas and went 0-2

It's good to hear you guys screaming about playing unlimited will be playing in the top division next season.

With as vocal as some of you are about top players..I have one question....why didn't you guys volunteer on your own to play up last season;-)

Although...that might explain why patty a few posts up is calling for major and plus to be merged....that Plus sickness didn't take long to come out....."Now that we got bumped....lets get some teams we can beat up merge with our new Division".
Dec. 18, 2013
JDub
Men's 50
152 posts
If you haven't noticed, Major & Major Plus is already combined every weekend we play with the exception of the World Tournament. The Bonus for Major Plus; Spotting Runs or 11th Defensive Player, and now DBO's . . .

As a Pitcher I like the DBO Rule. My Issues are the Rock Ball and having to wear a Mask. My stance on Senior Bats remains unchanged . . . SENIOR BATS ARE STOOOPID ! ! !


Have Fun, Be Safe,
Jeff White #7
AZ Elite 50M+
Dec. 18, 2013
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2733 posts
Jdub, I'm sure you haven't noticed (since you are in the sw) that here in the se most major plus teams aren't allowed in "qualifiers". Their options for playing are now cut in half.
Have a good Chrisrmas!
Dec. 18, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Tim,

For your info I play major plus on the Hollis-Rose 60 team, by the way we won Las Vegas the last 2 years.

The reason my 50 team hasn't volunteered to play major plus is that the tourneys here in the south don't give major plus teams a chance to play if there aren't any other major plus teams in the tourney.

By the way most of our guys can hit it down on the 60 team and my 50 team we just choose not to.

What division do you play in by the way??

There are probably 5 other teams here I the south that could play major plus in the 50 division.

PattyMac

Dec. 18, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
Patty...so let me understand.....

I was right about your Plus mentality of merging the Major Division. Except that your news didnt just happen...I don't think this is any special insight though...because the only guys that ever cry about merging the two Divisions are ALWAYS PLUS players.

I was right about your 50 team averaging around 15 homeruns per game in a MAJOR tourney.

Now your 50 major team complaining about not going to play ssusa Plus next year (your words not mine) even though that same team will now get 50% more homeruns per game as a Plus team before they reach their limit.

Congrats on the Hollis championships...although if I had my way...after you guys won your first World SSUSA would have only allowed you to return with six players till you reach the next age group.

I am a very limited defensive player on a Plus team.

I hit very few home runs on our team.

Unlike you....I have never won a SSUSA World.

Our MTC team was bumped to Plus in 2012 after comming in third at Vegas. We kept the exact same team/plus one pick up.... And were 2-0 in the round robbin then went 0-2 in the 2013 Vegas World tourney.

This season we again added one player...all of us live in NorCal. 8 of us played on the same city league team last year.

On your limited tourneys to play issue...I understand that could be frustrating...thank heavens in NorCal we have a strong senior program run by the players...NCSSA

I have to admit...I have no idea what this new rule will do in the 60+ age groups but...I believe its a great rule in the younger age groups.
Dec. 18, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Tim,

Not complaining about the move to major plus just the DBO.

If this was what was really good for the game it would have never been changed to a single 2 years ago. Why keep changing the rules??

Our 50 team was not the only team averaging a lot of homeruns. Thus my thoughts on combining the two divisions.

By the way I think our real powerful team finished 16 or there abouts out of 49 teams. Does that mean that all the teams that finished ahead of us in the world tourney should be moved up??

I think our team is just making a personal decision that they don't want to play DBO. This is America and freedom to make such choices is why we love this country.

Do you play with MTC 60's??

And another disagreement with you about only allowing us to have 6 players after our first win. Why not just try to make your team better instead of penalizing our team.

DBO penalizes players who can hit.

Merry Christmas

PattyMac

Dec. 18, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
I play on the MTC50 team and will be a fill in on the 55 team. There is no 60 team.

I believe you have to turn over the top teams to improve the health/numbers of any softball Division.

That's why dominant AA teams get moved to aaa, why aaa teams get moved to Major and why Major teams get moved to Plus... I just believe Plus Champions should be treated the same as all those other Divisions just instead of only allowing three players to come back in the same Division I'd give Plus teams 100% more returning players...SIX

It's my view Plus is so limited for many reasons but the biggest two are...allowing groups of players to win multiple Worlds and unlimited homeruns without them being outs....I'll leave the going back to five runs per inning for another time.

I think having 11 teams at last years 50 Plus World was great....with the new dbo rule I would think its possible that there could be more then 15 teams this year.

As an example...I saw where Sports Center was turned down for reclass to major... That team plays a very good inside the park game...this dbo rule works to their advantage..why? Because it puts value on other then one dinemsional power hitters.

I agree teams can play whatever associations they want...it's to bad a rule rewarding complete hitters is going to run you guys off. Some just might see that as being scared of playing to top level of SSUSA now that you have been placed there.
I know our team was not happy to get bumped last year....but we took the challenge and felt competitive even while going 0-2.
Dec. 18, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Tim,

Ain't no body on my 50 team scared to play any team. WE played a couple of Major plus teams in tourneys last year and we did not follow the rule of taking 5 runs or an extra fielder, we played them straight up. Close games but we lost.

I will say this everyone on our team can hit it down, just choose not to. We have been moved up by SPA also.

Sorry that you think that because we choose not to play that we have a team of incomplete players.

We will be playing the top level this year and will play where we can have the most fun. At my age having fun and competing at the highest level is what is important.

I am not probably what you consider a "complete player" but I try real hard to be.

Merry Christmas

PattyMac

Dec. 18, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
Patty, it's just that I believe complete players will happily welcome the new dbo rule.

Why? Because it gives those complete players more opportunity to shine/win...and NO...I am not one of those complete players either.

Matter of fact...on the softball field all I was good at as a youngster was hitting homeruns. A value (other then on baseball fields) that has been eliminated with the composite era.
Dec. 18, 2013
softball4b
Men's 60
768 posts
Tim,

We disagree on this one. Your team is now M+, based on your current opinion:

If you win it all this year, you are advocating the disbanding of your team. The same team you have built and played together for years. Some of your teammates have been with you for 30+ years.

The top of the heap is just that, the top. Everyone is always trying to topple you and there should be no requirement to reallocate players when you are playing at the highest level.
Dec. 18, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Tim,

Hope to see you and meet you somewhere on the softball field.

I can't believe that all your teammates want the DBO, on a major plus team.

The guys I know, who I play against in the 60 major plus division don't like it and they are west coast guys.

This is a team sport and any contribution by anyone on the team that helps the team win is the main goal.

Again wish I was a complete player but I'm just an old guy trying to hang on to the game I have played and loved for so long. Playing with a good 50 team at 61 is a real pleasure, which I probably wouldn't have unless most of the team were by best friends.

Just want to play and have some fun.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

PattyMac
Dec. 19, 2013
Tim Millette
521 posts
Mike, I agree we will have to disagree on the kinda break up the plus champion thing
I believe plus struggles every year because on many occasions groups of player are allowed to win multiple rings with the same 10-1-12-13 guys.
Just like every other Division Champion is only allowed to return with a very limited amount of their bumped roster (3players to be exact) I believe the same should apply to the Plus Division except they should be allowed 100% more returners (6 players to be exact).
If we won the Plus World. Would support applying this to our group until if we decided to get together again in the next age group.
Now...maybe this new dbo rule will help incentivize bumped teams to try to play Plus...time will tell...
All we all do know is....how Plus is being run now....isn't working
Dec. 19, 2013
Perl
110 posts
Patty Mac, I really hate this gentler/kinder you. Everybody that knows you is accustomed to the edgy competitor and don't ever change

As for as you not being a complete player, come on bro get real. You are in the NSSHOF and Legends HOF. You have played at the top level for 35+ years.

People will agree and disagree with you, no problem, you only want whats you feel is best for the game.

Forget the politically correct crap, it ain't you.

your friend
Steve Perlman
Dec. 20, 2013
PattyMac
96 posts
Perl,

Thanks for always having my back. haha

I am trying to be kinder and gentler in my old age. haha

DBO was a bad rule a few years ago and is a bad rule now.

I would like to be present when you meet the guy from the other post in south florida. haha

The truth is I have still not talked to one major or major plus player who likes the DBO rule.

Our 50 team got bumped to major plus in SSUSA and SPA. I say good for us even though we won't play SSUSA tourneys this year.

We will see how many east coast and southern teams travel to Las Vegas to play. Probably not many.

Glad to hear our 60 major plus team doesn't have to break up just because won Las Vegas 2 years in a row. SSUSA will probably make that rule too in the future.

Make everyone equal, sounds Communist to me.

Freedom is what makes America great.

Merry Christmas.

Can't wait for the season to begin.

PattyMac
Dec. 20, 2013
Robo2
229 posts
I pitch from time to time in Major division (and have for >10 years). I honestly do not think that any hitter tries to hit close to the pitcher. Not been my experience.

However, if all levels were unlimited HRs, then the games / innings may get over quicker due to reaching the 5 or 7 run per inning sooner.

I do know several tournament directors and they do listen to comments. Sometimes the answer is no.

Wishing everyone a Very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Joe L.
March 13, 2014
RV
8 posts
Isn't this all about making money, by adding 40-45-50 teams to senior softball, who is making the money?
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