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Discussion: All the hate on DBO with senior bats...how about this?

Posted Discussion
Dec. 26, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
All the hate on DBO with senior bats...how about this?
So there has been 100s of comments on the dbo rule and the "fear" of pitchers getting hurt.

How about this answer.....if reduced risk of injury to all players IS REALLY the fear.

Instead of crying about the rule, how about teams saying ok...the rule is the rule....to reduce any perceived risk of injury, our team volunteers to SHARE/swing aluminum bats ONLY , in any dbo game as long as the other team agrees.

You see...when the rubber really hits the road...this will show who really wants to reduce the risk of injury and who really..wants to pretend while swinging a composite.

The real sad part of this thread is....I believe to many seniors have become "composite dependent" for many teams to man up to the challenge.

If I am wrong...and the mens division actually agreed to such a thing???

Home runs would once again mean something.

Defense would once again mean something and......

Defensive players would have very little risk of serious injury,

So...to the turbos, Adiktiv, and all the other vocal guys hammering the new rule how about it.
Dec. 26, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
115 posts
Tim you know they are not going to do this. It was expose their manhood. They could not go back to the Motel at night and tell the young wife how many homeruns they hit.

They had rather loss the bottle of Viagra then the composite bats. The thunder sticks makes them feel like real men
Dec. 26, 2013
tg69
294 posts
How about this.When homerun limit is met in the game any ball hit up the middle that either hits the pitcher or the pitcher gets a glove on it is a DBO unless he turns a double play on it.
Dec. 26, 2013
neck10
476 posts
that's not enough maybe the guy is out every time he comes up for the rest of the game like in usssa on the hr but if you sub for the guy the sub can bat at least another way to get more guys playin time.
Dec. 26, 2013
Perl
86 posts
Tim

Come on bro, Greg Connell, Scott Kirby, Brian Wegman, Jeff Hall, Bubba Mac, etc. These are the absolute best softball players on the planet and they swing composite bats. You know the players models they swing are close to our senior bats. Why should guys 50, 60 and 70 swing aluminum. Makes no sense.

Fighting technology is not the answer. Give us something better to consider.

The pitcher touching the ball rule being an out has been tried and failed miserably.

Why not have the DBO in AA, AAA and Major to keep teams from sandbagging and just let the M+ guys swing away.
Dec. 26, 2013
Hammer22
12 posts
I don't know why people keep saying DBO for every level but major plus. That doesn't make any sense at all. The best players in the country have to adjust when the HR's are gone why not us?
It really blows my mind how people what to make it a one dimensional game. If you can't adjust your swing you're not a major plus player or don't want to adjust then you are a selfish player. Do what's better for the game!!!!! As for the pitcher put up a screen and let the him decide if he wants to try to field the ball or stay behind the screen. Hit the screen it's an out. SIMPLE and you still have for the most part a real softball game!!
Dec. 26, 2013
Perl
86 posts
Hammer22

You talk about the best players having to adjust to hitting it down. Well right now there are four Major teams in the U-trip conference and only two of those teams, Resmondo and Laservision, really have much of a chance of winning. Many of the top young players will tell you DBO has ruined upper level softball. The young guys have been polled and their favorite tournament is the Smokey Mountain Classic which is unlimited HRs.Should tell you something.

Tim (TM50) you played/coached/sponsored at the top level. You have seen the demise of the upper level game. You know we should not pattern our game after the young guys game.
Dec. 26, 2013
Ho
201 posts
PERL:

Too bad the young guys don't support their opinion by attending the SMOKEY MOUNTAIN CLASSIC.

Two 55 MAJOR and/or PLUS teams attended in 2013 (DOCS and REALITY CHECK). The attendance figure of TWO 55 MAJOR'S ranked that tournament 26th of all other SSUSA, ISSA and SPA tournaments held east of the MISSISSIPPI.

A little better for the 50 PLUS and/or MAJOR as SIX teams showed up (DT EXPRESS, KRYSTAL BALLERS, MID-ATLANTIC, SOUTHERN ELITE, TEAM ARKANSAS and TEAM TENNESSEE). For the 50's attendance at that tournament ranked 11th.

Apparently sometimes when you actually have to vote with entry fee's the polling numbers change.

Ho
Dec. 26, 2013
Perl
86 posts
Ho

I was talking the real young guys not seniors.

This year will be the 46th Smokey Mountain Classic. I believe all 45 previous tournaments have been umlimited HRs. Not only do the players love this enent but the tournament attendance record is 24,500. Now thats real softball, the best players in the game playing with no DBO.
Dec. 26, 2013
Ho
201 posts
Sorry, stand corrected.

Do take exception about your descrpition of "real softball".

Real softball was fast pitch where you had to be good in all aspects of the game not just hitting.

However, that said, the early years of senior softball in the 50's and 55 divisions that was also a great game when home runs were worth bragging about and defense and speed were the top priorities.

I will agree today, the pre-senior softball is the best softball going (unless there are any fast pitch leagues around).

Ho
Dec. 26, 2013
damaged goods
8 posts
What are the pros and cons of a "no arc limit" for pitchers safety and dbo rule??
Dec. 26, 2013
Rainmans
21 posts
Maybe we should eliminate the pitcher and hit off a tee. Or, maybe we could have virtual indoor softball simulators so we can play against any team, at any location, at anytime of the year and nobody gets hurt.
Dec. 26, 2013
Hammer22
12 posts
Perl,
There has been a DBO since the late 80's. The best players have had to adjust since then. It doesn't matter how many teams there are they still have to adjust. I've been playing softball since 1978 at the top levels and believe the HR rule has made for a lot better all around game. The DBO is not what ruined the game at the upper level.
The smokey's was one of my favorite tourney as well but not because of the unlimited HR but because of the atmosphere and the crowds. Do u really think an unlimited HR rule will help these teams beat Resmondo or laservision. Absolutely not!!! Even though they don't stand much of a chance with it they would have no chance without it.
Dec. 27, 2013
Perl
86 posts
Hammer22

You make some great points. Many agree the teams today have better all around athletes because of the DBO. Now defense, speed, basehitting and managing your HRs are instrumental in winning. And I agree, DBO or not Resmondo and Laservision would still dominate upper level softball.

Hopefully you will agree that the true power teams, Steeles, Ritchs Superior, Jerrys Catering, Lighthouse, Bell Corp and the rest were fun to watch and try compete against.
Dec. 27, 2013
LeeLee
86 posts
Perl,

Here is your quote

Tim

Come on bro, Greg Connell, Scott Kirby, Brian Wegman, Jeff Hall, Bubba Mac, etc. These are the absolute best softball players on the planet and they swing composite bats. You know the players models they swing are close to our senior bats. Why should guys 50, 60 and 70 swing aluminum. Makes no sense.

And yes they play with the DBO rule, but no you believe that the FREAKIN MAJOR PLUS 50's and 55's shouldn't. Please read your final sentence. REALLY
Dec. 27, 2013
mad dog
Men's 60
3919 posts
perl the bats they use are what the assoc they are playing in..they no longer get juiced bats...go check an USSSA event...all bats are check (and most times are put in a barrel near their dugout)so they don't get to use anything over the limits set forth by the assoc.....


Dec. 27, 2013
Turbo 34
Men's 50
10 posts
Why not let dudes swing aluminum and their home runs don't count toward the teams total. All aluminum bat homers would always count as home runs. I would be ok with it. Bring back the blue EST baby!!!
Dec. 27, 2013
Awg-dawg
Men's 50
2 posts
If someone has good enough bat control to hit the middle, why is it they don't have the control to hit the holes?
Dec. 27, 2013
tg69
294 posts
Turbo34 ,not a bad idea
Dec. 27, 2013
boston
296 posts
Here we go again. Fellas their is no law or rule that says you have to swing a senior bat in senior ball. Bring your aluminum bats and swing them as you please.
Dec. 27, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
Turbo has it exactly right.

If I could add one rule in seniors it would be any homerun hit with an aluminum bat does NOT count towards the home run total.

What this would do is....reward real home run hitters and...for many of the real powerful senior guys it would get the composites out of their hands much of the time.
Dec. 27, 2013
rightrj1
Men's 55
180 posts
You guys that don't like the rules need to get a life!!! DBO, No DBO, Aluminum bats, no senior bats...Dam when will the crying STOP...Play the game, hit the middle, hit homers, hit with whatever bat you wish...just STOP BITCHING! everyone will NEVER AGREE, so just play the game, try your best to win the game, then come have a beer with me!!!! Enough Bitching guys!!!
Dec. 27, 2013
Duke
Men's 60
678 posts
rightrj1, You are right on, AMEN! Where are we having the beer?

Andy Smith
R & R Strokers
Dec. 27, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
976 posts
yeah RJ, what Duke said! we are a few years overdue! ;-)
Dec. 27, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
From my younger days experience usually that guys that say swing what you want, who cares about the rules were either roid users or altered bat swingers.
And Swing....if you don't care what the rules are.....we can always use another Plus team.....WARRIORS.....COME UP TO PLAY..lol
Dec. 28, 2013
Critter20
Men's 50
1 posts
The Nor CAl Warriors will adjust and play whatever the rules are, and the ranking assigned by said associations.
Dec. 28, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
976 posts
Nice first post Critter! ;-)
Dec. 29, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
57 posts
Mr Tim Millette, I say this with the utmost respect.....You are a Freakin Idiot ! I don't believe you've ever seen me play defense, don't believe you've ever seen me hit the ball down when needed, don't believe you've ever seen me run for myself and some of my older teammates every game of every tournament! Never taking a break, playing every minute of every game! And the same goes for my friend Turbo....he's a great guy, a great player....so,just shut your pie-hole, you know not of what you speak!!

GaRocket, I also play for Triangle Masters 55/over....if we ever have the pleasure of playing whatever team you sit the bench for, please come over and introduce yourself...I can always use the free Viagra! As for my younger wife...I don't need to tell her how many HomeRun I hit....she comes to every one of my tournaments and gives me a loving Kiss everytime I hit'em.....Oh, and I get A LOT of kisses from her!!
Dec. 29, 2013
swing for the fences
Men's 50
976 posts
getting my popcorn out.. this ought to be good... ;-)
Dec. 29, 2013
rdrman66
7 posts
For all those people who want to swing Aluminum go ahead and swing it, nobody is stopping you. However shut your pie-hole about anyone else who doesn't want to do the same as you! If you feel more manlier by swinging those bats then go right ahead-more power to you. We played against Jose Canseco and guess what, we knew that if we were scared we shouldn't be out there playing. Nobody is forcing anyone from playing this game so stop acting like you know what's better for everyone else. Those who are arguing are like the unions out there-out to protect the weakest laziest people instead of promoting excellence.
Dec. 30, 2013
Lefty
Men's 65
451 posts
I agree with you rdman66.
Dec. 30, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
115 posts
Adiktiv6 you are most likely correct with composite bats you more than likely do get a lot of kisses
But without the composites or the Viagra you would not get any of either
Dec. 30, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
Rdrman66....Doug?

Who would be scared to allow aluminum bat homeruns to not count towards the Homerun totals?

It's a win win...

1) Powerful hitters will most often not swing a composite..less danger

2) All the power hitters you all are crying about going middle can play unlimited homeruns.

My guess is...the only guys that would cry about this "aluminum rule" would be those that need composites to hit home runs.
Dec. 30, 2013
Hammer22
12 posts
rdrman66,
Sounds to me like someone ruffled your feathers. Everybody is entitled to their opinion which is why there is a message board. You getting angry and throwing out an absolutely ridiculous comment, like shut your pie hole doesn't help. Most of the comments are to try and make the game better and safer. One question why would anybody be afraid of Jose Canseco anymore than anybody else?
Dec. 30, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
AdicTIV,

I hate to let you in on this secret but.....You would be at the back of a looooong line calling me an idiot...

Now I understand how frustrating and emotional it can be for some guys when their team gets bumped to Plus so I will give you and your mates some slack.

I can really care less about how good or bad of a softball player you are....I just hope your not one of those that place value in how great you are at softball...after all...driven to be a great softball player has destroyed many life's, and families.

I live by the motto...the only ring that matters is the one on my wife's finger.....

You referred to "you know not what you speak" , yet leave me in the dark on the issue i wrote that you "speakith about"??????

Maybe you can more articulately write to what you speakith?

If you do reply to this.....please use as small of words as possible...us idiots need all the help we can get.
Dec. 30, 2013
rdrman66
7 posts
I will put some clarification in this. If someone prefers to use Aluminum then as I said, more power to you. No one is saying you can't use it and if you feel better doing that then go ahead. At the same time, stop trying to change everyone else because you want to change the standards. The game is enjoyable the way it is. If your afraid of your safety then either don't play or do something different. The overwhelming majority of people in senior softball enjoy the game as it is.
Dec. 30, 2013
Perl
86 posts
Garocket

I don't know you brother but I do know Adiktiv6 and believe me he doesn't need a composite bat to hit HRs. You dogging him out about needing a hot bat is laughable. This guy is one of the premier hitters in the game today. He's one of very few that could hit a wood bat 300'

I can't vouch for the need for Viagra though.

You can continue to question his hitting ability but you are way off base.

And no, Adiktiv6 and I are not dating, I just believe in giving credit where it's due and this cat can hit, run, catch, throw and just flat out play.

If you are from Georgia you've probably seen this guy play.
Dec. 30, 2013
Tim Millette
465 posts
Rdrman, so your saing if the rule was.....aluminum homeruns do not count towards the Homerun total you'd gladly play?

Oh...one more thing...Did you ask Jose to autograph your uniform?;-)

I thought I played against Jose once but...alas...it was Ozzy. THANK GOD!!!
Dec. 30, 2013
rdrman66
7 posts
Actually he asked for my autograph and then if I could hook him up with some Winstrol. I never said anything about aluminum home runs at all. The idea of hitting them and them not counting towards the amount allowed is actually not a bad idea. I simply said, don;t try to legislate the game anymore then it is.
Dec. 30, 2013
Hammer22
12 posts
rdrman66,
Your comment, "If your afraid of (for) your safety then either don't play or do something different." They want to play and will play but they are also doing something different as well. They are trying to make the game safer (just like the NFL, or the NHL) so they can go home after. I don't pitch so it really has nothing to do with me being afraid but I do have a friend on the mound. If I did hit a pitcher and hurt them how am I going to feel. I'd have to see that survey that you took to believe that an OVERWHELMING majority of people in senior softball enjoy the game as it!!
Dec. 30, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
57 posts
Tim M, I don't mind being in the back of this loooong line you are telling me about.....sad, tho, that you wouldn't pick up on maybe you need to make a change somewhere! Can't help you with your request...if you don't get what I was talking about, it won't matter how small of words I use or how much I articulate, you still won't get it!

A dik
Dec. 30, 2013
rdrman66
7 posts
Hammer, if you are so worried about safety then you should take up something more appropriate like board games, red blood cell counting or perhaps a nice nap. In the meantime stop trying to insinuate that people are trying to hurt a pitcher. That is silly and not true at all. Do you know statistically that far more injuries occur running the bases. Should we eliminate doing that or perhaps have kids run the bases for us since they are younger and won't easily get hurt as much? This is the last comment I have on this, either play the game or don't no one is forcing you and most people like it as it is.
Dec. 30, 2013
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
57 posts
GArocket, Like I said before, if TriMasters plays against your team (what team do you play for?) please Introduce yourself. I always like meeting new and interesting people! I'll introduce you to my Viagra, her name's Cindy, my younger wife!

p.s. Make sure you bring the composite bat you swing !

A dik


p.s.s. Tks Perl
Dec. 30, 2013
Hammer22
12 posts
rdrman66,
Exactly the respond I expected from someone who can't comprehend what they read!!!
Dec. 30, 2013
BiggDan
Men's 50
9 posts
There is a serious problem when association's want to shorten the ballgame's , but still charge $500-$600.00 per tournament. If you did not play their association's because of their rule's and price. Maybe they would get the message. They are talking about in certain association's playing instead of 70 min's per game. will be more like 45-50 min's a game. Do you think that is fair? Teams talk about Adiktiv on this website. but it is mainly the teams that can not compete in the Major division. And you know who you are. Stop living the dream. You get to this age to play a game that growing up people loved to play. Now you get older. and they want to restrict you from playing . Just because the players stay in shape better than them. Not all the good players want to play with your team, or they want to play on a team with their friends. Their are teams that do not get moved up because of who they know on the board. And they wine to the association's about getting beat each week by the same team. or teams. Drop drown . face reality. Enjoy this game while you can. it won't last for ever.
Dec. 30, 2013
The Kid
6 posts
I have said it before and I will say it again ---I am truly saddened to see the direction SSUSA has chosen to take on rule changes pertaining to homeruns. When you mandate homeruns in excess of the inappropriate lower limits you have established, you increase the level of injury to all infielders, and this is especially true for the pitcher. No single rule change could be more detrimental to the Major and Major + brackets. Your excess home run out rule has just increased the level of danger to all players and diminished the sport in general. Actions of this type are primary reasons why so many players and teams had turned away from SPA. Your actions will probably send them back. More and more players and teams will be leaving your organization to play in non sanctioned tournaments in which they can still go for the homerun. Show me a player who claims to not wish to be able to hit a home run and I will show you a liar or a person who should find something less challenging to do with his time for they are not actually ball players. Any player who approves this type of restriction should work to increase his or her ability rather than work to drag this fine sport down to there level. I further believe that mandating the use of facemasks is inappropriate. The last thing I want to worry about while fielding a ball is the possibility of loosing sight of it while making a play. If a pitcher wishes to use one fine. Let him do so but don't mandate it. Many pitchers will object to the mandate but will certainly accept the use voluntarily. I consider this decision to be ill-conceived and can certainly see a time when a pitcher is hurt while using a mask and believes that his view was obstructed because of it. This could certainly be considered grounds for a law suit. Over the last few years we seem to see more and more rule changes which hinder the more competitive ball players and most notably the hard hitters. The name of this game is (Slow Pitch)and that is a hitters game!
Dec. 30, 2013
Garocket
Men's 55
115 posts
I would say in the Major Plus and Major Plus only have a 7 runs per inning until the 5th. All homeruns count NO DBOs
After 5 innings let runs per inning be unlimited.
Visting team comes in and goes up by 5 the home team comes in and scores 15 thats a 10 run rule ball game over
That would save some time
Dec. 30, 2013
DCPete
228 posts
Garocket; don't see how that could work? We waited for a game in Vegas to finish some years ago so we could get our game in on a Saturday night. Home team was up around 30 - 22 going into the 7th of a M+ game with no DBOs. Visiting team scored around 30 in the top half to go up by about 20 runs. Home team came in and got their 20 or so runs to win. Game took over 2 hours to play and then it was too late for us to get our game in (at around 10:30pm) so they made us come back Sunday at 7am. Several of our guys refused to ever go back after that.
With 2 Unlimited innings like you're suggesting a game could last 2 1/2 hours; how could any TD run a tournament on any kind of schedule under those conditions?
Dec. 30, 2013
tg69
294 posts
rdrman66 Ive been a UNION man for 38 years and damn proud of it.Lets keep it to softball crying only. TG69
Jan. 2, 2014
Tim Millette
465 posts
AdicTIV, you sound like a great player...confident in your abilities etc.....

Since I will be playing some 55 ball this season how about if you ever play MTC55 or MTC50 we get together and swing an aluminum bat during the game....then we can see if Viagra is needed...;-)
Jan. 2, 2014
PattyMac
94 posts
Tim,

I play with Paco, adiktiv 6, and he is the real deal. Is your team going to come the east coast for any tournaments this year?? I have played against the mtc teams for years. They usually come to Dalton for the SPA nationals. Would love to see you play.

Also I agree with "the kid", more injuries with the new rule.

PattyMac




Jan. 2, 2014
Hammer22
12 posts
Kid,
Everybody loves to hit the HR for sure but the HR is not what makes you a ball player.
I am a player who approves the HR rule. I am also a player who could hit HR's when I need to and can get hits when I need to. I can play defense anywhere on the field. If you don't like this HR rule you need to work on your skills so you can hit down and play defense. Step up and challenge yourself to be a complete player. If not start a HR derby tournament association for one dimensional players. By the looks of this board thread you could really make a go of it.
Offense win games defense wins championships!!
As for the mask I agree with it being optional. I say put up a screen if it hits the screen it's an out. This way the pitcher still has a option of try to field the ball or getting behind the screen.
Jan. 2, 2014
Adiktiv6
Men's 50
57 posts
Mr Tim,

Agreed, if TriMasters / MTC55 play in the same tourney and get the chance to play against each other, we swing aluminum bats!

Same goes for Adictiv Sports / MTC50.....we play, we swing aluminum bats....

I like swinging the DiMarini double wall bats, is that ok? Or would you prefer I swing another bat? Or maybe you bring the bat and that's the bat we swing....

As for the Viagra, since I'm not going to "blank" you, I'm not going to need it.

A dik












Jan. 3, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1931 posts
I have always felt that a 'measured step back' from the composites would not be a bad move. Just before the Ultra came out, we had a combo that was an alloy bat like the Orange Crush and a 47/525 ball. People thought that was too hot and were looking at going to the 44/375 with the alloys. I remember the 47/525 seemed to hold up well in all weather-even 100 degree plus. The Demarini Double Wall was 'too hot' they said. The more you dented it and re-rounded it the hotter it got until it exploded. Now, those would be the 'measured step back'. Interesting. What would it take to get a competitive tournament together to actually use the 'lesser' combo just to see what would really happen with it? Would enough teams actually be able to get enough guys that would want to play this tournament? Would they pay extra bucks to do this? I wonder..... might be very eye-opening!
Jan. 3, 2014
Tim Millette
465 posts
AdicTIV, I knew I'd like you!!!

Sounds like Turbo? Is also built of the same timber.

It's great to know there are actually other seniors that have what it takes to put down the composites and still be able to play a balanced competitive game.

As for the Viagra thing...thank God! Usually the guys that call me an idiot add the F-U phrase in as well.....
Jan. 3, 2014
Hammer22
12 posts
Tim,
You can add me to that list. Only problem is somebody is going to have to
start making them again because they won't last very long.
Jan. 4, 2014
papamidnight
3 posts
We are going to start games with a L screen pretty soon. We all have been playing for awhile now. Just dont go out to hurt pitchers up the middle. You should have bat cintrol not to do this. If happensover and over umpire warn the teams then call it a dbo. I dont want anyone hurt but ultra hard balls going to be idiots and injuries. Bang box over and over kick em out. We dont need rule changes every year. We all have fam or work or both nxt day.
Jan. 5, 2014
CurtfromKY
35 posts
rdr69.... after 30plus years, I am still a UNION member in the workplace and an active softball player in many different leagues. I agree with tg69 about keeping the two separate--esp on this site. There is enough tension in here as it is!
Jan. 5, 2014
Mau Mau
1 posts
THE HR rule last season at The Vegas Worlds didn't factor into Nazareno Electric-50 Major Plus Championship Run.. We didn't even burn through the 10 HR's in the games we played... The SR Bats are a joke anyway, a waste of money!!!! Lets kill the pitcher, play defense and hit 10 HR's and use our old sticks sitting in our garages...They still work great!

Jan. 6, 2014
Mango
Men's 50
80 posts
Welcome to the board Mau-the bats are way to hard to control(altered bats) the best way to control it is with the balls-then only home run hitters hit bombs. By the way- as hard as you hit it, if you hit the ball down you could kill a pitcher. Just the thought of it -Yikes!
Mango
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