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Discussion: Why are teams not rated the same in USSA SPA ISSA

Posted Discussion
Jan. 13, 2014
L
37 posts
Why are teams not rated the same in USSA SPA ISSA
I thought that all of these were part of the group that set the rules for the game. If they can not get teams rated the same then how can they expect the teams to understand there reasoning behind there rules and want to play by the rules. That being said I was talking about what rating they should be in when they go to tournaments. This would greatly level the playing field when you know who should be there and in your bracket. I know that teams bitch and moan about what division they are in but if you have players that have played major plus all there time they should be mp same goes for the rest of the divisions. And if you win major tournaments then you should be glad to move up and at least try. After that year you can get rerated if you have played and at least tried to compete which we have done a few times. I know most players and sponsors will say we are wasting our money but they should be proud that they were good enough to win and love the chance to compete against good competition.
Jan. 13, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
Several teams that are playing next month in the TOC have had their SSUSA online rating temporarily changed to what it was at the time they won the event when they earned their TOC invitation ... That's where, ratings wise, they will play in the tournament ... As soon as the TOC is concluded, the ratings for those teams will be restored to what they were as of the end of year 2013 ratings review, which will resolve some of the apparent inconsistencies ...
Jan. 13, 2014
rabbit
Men's 65
297 posts
Staff, you never did actually answer the question on ratings he was wanting, why are teams in different classes in different organizations, he is saying we were told that they should be the same across the board and they are not, some teams are AAA in one AA in another Major in one and AAA in another, this is the answer i think he is wanting,this has happened the past 2 or three seasons that i can remember, Thanks if you can clear this up.
Jan. 13, 2014
L
37 posts
Thank you ussa staff but the answer I was wanting is what Rabbit is saying and what are the current up-to-date ratings as have heard some that were moved up in December have already been moved down.
Jan. 13, 2014
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
The former National Senior Softball Ratings Committee, comprised of Terry Hennessy (SSUSA), Ridge Hooks (SPA) and R.B. Thomas (ISSA), used to have periodic telephone conference calls to discuss (and hopefully resolve) any differences in ratings by and between those three principal Senior Softball associations. The conference calls no longer occur, and each association is free to make their own decisions with respect to individual team ratings. SSUSA and SPA however, do have reciprocity as it relates to the automatic move-up of teams (other than Major+) that win either association's World Championships annually.

Over the past few years, the SSUSA National Ratings Database has improved with respect to the performance data of the teams, and the composition of players on those teams, to the point that we are comfortable with our own rating decisions. We do, occasionally, consult with those associations regarding specific teams, but reserve the right to make the final decision for SSUSA rating purposes on any team in question. We respect, and have absolutely no criticisms, as to whatever rating decisions the other associations may make. There are no current plans to reconvene the former multi-association process.

NOTE: For the temporary move downs since December, all of those teams are referred to in our previous reply above, and they will be moved back up following next month's Tournament of Champions.

Jan. 13, 2014
Perl
107 posts
SSUSA

In my opinion you have the best rating system. As the largest and most influential organization I, and I bet most others agree, wish you would bring back the conference call to duscuss ratings.

ISSA is the worst in my opinion/experience. Teams are allowed to play down, according to your and SPA ratings, at almost every tournament. If teams have the same rosters/sponsors why can't you all work together and rate teams the same. This should be a fairly simple fix that would make the game better for everyone, except the teams playing down.
Jan. 13, 2014
L
37 posts
Perl glad to read your answer and like most it seems it would be so simple to correct this but as has been stated so many times we love to compete and whenever we can we play. But one day we will wake up and support the ones that are correctly rating the teams and everyone will have a chance to win and move up when they can. Like you stated above ISSA is the worest but when there is nothing else going we play as we are all a bunch of softball junkies.
Jan. 13, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1985 posts
L-reading between the lines, I would venture a guess that a serious rift occurred between the associations and it has not been repaired yet. Every time I think about talking about a team's rating, I think of how many teams they are rating and all of the things that go into it. It is tough and there will always be those that disagree. Also, we have to realize there are really very few of us that blog here-it is a very small proportion. The feedback they get from the tournaments themselves would weigh a lot more and we would never know what they are told. No matter what, yes the softball junkie in me will be out there asap.
Jan. 13, 2014
bernie
Men's 55
64 posts
The ISSA used to set standards accordingly with others but have become aligned with the ASA National office concerning classifications. The ASA relies on Local Commissioners to provide a class for teams entered in their National Tournaments. Since no local official wants to stand in the way of someone playing, they usually let the teams make the call. The exception is the State of PA where classification is actually scrutinized and teams for the most part play where they belong. As long as there is money to be made, the ISSA is oblivious to real classifications as is apparent when National Tournament winning teams continue to play at the same level year after year.
With the SSUSA tracking players over the past few years, we have a much more fair and equitable tournament field week in and week out. Just wish we wouldn't constantly see the same teams going back and forth between divisions where they sandbag when class is raised, appeal, get reinstated and then dominate at the lower level again and again.
Jan. 13, 2014
Omar Khayyam
1000 posts
L points out that "most players and sponsors will say we are wasting our money" by playing a bracket that is too competitive for them…and so they stop going to those tournaments. I admire L and his team for being willing to test themselves against a higher division, but I think he is correct that many players/teams don't want this.

That said, and it seems that ISSA is very liberal at letting teams rate themselves and thus enter a lower division than their real abilities, why do teams keep going to ISSA tournaments? Are there really so few SPA and SSUSA tournaments around that they keep entering ISSA's offerings? Or do they also drop themselves and thus it is ultimately the AA guys who suffer because they have no lower division to sandbag in?
Jan. 13, 2014
rh25
Men's 60
9 posts
ISSA is the main assoc. in the mid-atlantic. This coming season it looks like there are less SPA & SSUSA tournaments than in past seasons in the mid-atlantic. It is almost across the board that teams are rated one class lower in that assoc. Our team is rated AA in ISSA and AAA in the other two. I've come across only one team Jersey Masters that is rated the same in all 3. I'd rather be AAA but then we'd be playing AAA teams that are majors in the other 2. We even played one team last season that was AA in ISSA but major in the other 2. They since been moved to AAA.
Jan. 13, 2014
garyheifner
361 posts
I think part of the problem is that SPA is almost non-existent in the midwest-upper midwest. They don't get to see us play. They can only guess after making a few phone calls and asking people about teams. My team was rated AA the past two years in SPA and as it turned out was properly rated with 4th or 5th place finishes. I will say, we did play some pretty powerful talented teams that were also in AA. Be honest, rating teams is the hardest thing that the associations have to deal with.
Jan. 13, 2014
garyheifner
361 posts
P.S.

The above was refering to the Championships in Dalton
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