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Discussion: Altered Bat Update

Posted Discussion
Oct. 23, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Altered Bat Update
One of the coolest quotes of all time
is, "When all is said and done,
more is said than done."

We need to know what happenend in Seattle regarding
2 separate altered/illegal bat incidents.
We need to know loud and clear.

We need to know from the Palm Spings Tournament
what procedures and penalities are in place
to deal with challenged bats.
We need to know what we, as a group,
intend to do about the altered/bat situation.

I propose:
Lifetime ban.
Publicized Hall of Shame.
Along with accountability and processes in place to
criminalize and litigate against
any player who uses or hurts a player
when using illegal equipment.



Oct. 23, 2006
ReadyToGo
14 posts
HERE WE GO AGAIN!!! Get over it already, move on!!!!
Oct. 23, 2006
60 Bill
27 posts
Please move on ninstein, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lots of them
Oct. 23, 2006
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
OK... I have been watching this dead horse as it it being beat to a pulp!! Let it go and let the powers that be handle it!! I think just having you be known as a cheat is got to be damaging in itself along with who going to have him or her on your team?? time to go into looking forward to this coming season meeting old friends and getting back to what we love about the sport and not dwelling on the past!!
MOVE ON AND PLAY BALL!!
Oct. 23, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,
I think that it is a criminal act,
something like reckless endangerment
or perhaps something even more pointed
like assualt with a deadly weapon.
And the issue needs to be dealt with
not just blabbed about.
Ready to Go,
Hit the Gap
60 Bill
Jolly 52 are non entities when it comes
to accountability and aren't to be taken seriously about
anything.
We need help to "resolve" important issues
and to keep material topics current
so we can educate and stimulate our community
into action.
Also, the more we get these clowns to act
the better chance we'll find out who they (or he is)
are or aren't.
You can fool some of the people all of the time...
All of the people some of the time but
not all of the poeple all of the time.
Oct. 23, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Yes.
The pitcher could not claim ignorance that he didn't know the spit ball
could move "that much" so as to create a safety issue for the batter.
It's like a guy saying he wasn't trying to shoot anyone when the rifle he was cleaning happened to go off and wounded a passerby.
Reckless endangerment I think it's called, Gary.
It's a great question, though and I'd love to hear what others have to say about it.
Oct. 23, 2006
SoCal'er
68 posts
Gary.........what if the pro hitter has a corked bat (or any type of illegal bat) and hits a line drive at the pitcher and injures him ? My guess is there would be severe penalties .The pitching example dosn't work.
I agree, cheating is cheating. Should we ignore the under age player? Think not. Where do you draw the line?
Oct. 23, 2006
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
Einstein, is it your contention that because we do not follow your rules and opinions that we have nothing say?? I been playing softball all my life and just because someone comes up and states there name dosen't mean there going to tell me or anyone else something of value or be honest, I now know why people make fun of you!! if this site asked for the info I would gladly give it.. but to satisfy your ego forget it.. again when you or anyone else gives opinions I read it and make my own opinions on the subject and do not run and look how said it I take it for what this site is a message board..
Oct. 23, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jolly 52,
I'd love to comment on your previous thread if
II knew whom I was talking to.
I don't waste my time
on clowns, cowards or light weights.
Sorry, you're a light weight at best.
Oct. 23, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
FACTS: There were 3 cases. One players did not make a fuss & took his 1 yr. ban. This person went quitely. This player admitted that he was using a 'hot bat.'

another player made a big fuss & made T.H., send in the bat 4 testing. This player could have taken his 1 yr BAN & everything would be over. ( HE DID NOT.)

TESTING LABS: The hottest bat tested so far was 1.30 BPF. If, a bat could be made to tested out @ 1.90 BPF, a ball would sail 700 feet. SORRY, I GOT some wrong numbers from ISA.

CORKED BATS: Testing Labs, have now reversed their stand. A Corked Bat, may get 1% more distance. NO GAIN.

EINSTEIN: A few yrs back, ((1995)) I believe that EASTON made the REBEL; WORTH made the LIGHTHOUSE; & TPS, made the OUTLAW., THESE BATS were advertize w/ a 1.30BPF. When tested, all 3 bats was well below 1.30 BPF. These bats were legal in 95 & 96.

In 2003, POWERHOUSE, has a PLAYERS MODEL, this bat was ad as 1.43BPF. When this bat was tested, this PLAYERS MODEL, tested out @ 1.20BPF.

ASA, change the test standards, because only 1 bat had to pass, in the old policies.. MIKEN's, END LOADED BATS were @ times test' out in the high 1.2X BPF. This is why, MIKEN's, started placing the pin in their bat handles.

CRIMINAL ACT: I may be off a lil' but, the diff.' from a 1.20 BPF LEGAL BAT & a 1.27 BPF ; HOT & ILLEGAL BAT, is only 20 to 40 ft. Again, it depends on the ball, batter, etc.

JOLLY 52: "something of value or be honest". This is true. only the Softball Assoc.' that u r play' in can address, some of these matters. Hopefully, we all have VALUE & r INDIVIDUALS W/ HONORABLE INTENTIONS. We all have EGOS & FOOLISH PRIDE.

JOLLY 52: Please, keep posting. There is a growning use of 'hot bats'. I just hope that no one gets hurt from a hot bat.

LAST POINT: One of my freinds lost a tooth,this wkend pitching. The ball hit the rubber & hit my friend in the mouth. NSA, balls (( 44 cor w/ a 400 comp.)) Just a bad bounce & the batter was a low E-Player. Both r still friends.

Stay Cool, Have Passion, & try to FORGIVE:

The STONEMAN...............OUT
Oct. 23, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Stoneman,
Glad to see you up and about.
Thanks for the info.
I had one of those Rebels, too.
Thanks for the advice on passion and forgiveness.
You're the man.
Say hi to Rick for me.
Oct. 23, 2006
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
Stoneman, I will keep posting and I do know we all have ego's. Bats have been altered since there have been players swinging them, its an ongoing problem that has to be changed from the inside out through players and managers as the front line on this problem. With ego's its the same most players out here have them in check. I respect what you have to say as a player and a person.
Keep it honest and open, lets play ball!
Oct. 23, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
I posted the following message over a month ago. This is fact, not fiction. If you hurt someone with an altered bat, all the below can happen. From a legal point of view, YES you and others could and most likely would be held accountable. It falls under the heading of "If you thruogh enough crap against the wall, some of it will stick" Just to defend yourself in a civil trial will cost you about $5,000.00 just to get to the first day of court. All it will take is one person getting hurt, and that hurt person getting a lawyer. There is case law in every state that would bare witness to this. If you don't believe me, spend $35.00 and go see a lawyer.

I defend your right to say things that make my blood boil, and I have the right to reply or not to listen. With that said, the person EB is just that A CLOWN, and I for one will not listen to that type of retort. It is counter productive and not befiting any man of honor.

Sept. 15, 2006
Gene22 Topic: General and miscellaneous
Discussion: Doctored Bat in Seattle?

Let's take this to the next level. Some people just don't get it. They think that using an altered bat is cool. Let's try to make them understand on another level..........Weather you know it or not, if you use an altered bat and you hurt someone, the TD, Association, Manager of the team and that person using and or owner of the altered bat at the time of the injury and the person who altered the bat will in all likelyhood be SUED. The associations know this and should do everything they can to "Stop Them At The Gate". at least have someone in the know inspect every bat that is to be used before the games begin, and put a mark or sticker on them. With this problem creeping up more and more, the Associations Insurance Policy will not stand behind them with the Associations just telling people in a printed matter"No Altered Bats". I hope this does not fall on deaf ears. What kind of person could get a thrill out of BLASTING on out, with what they know is an altered bat. I for one and I am sure many others get an even GREATER THRILL when we BLAST one out following the rules.

Gene D. Riddlebaugh
Ohio Silverados #22
Dayton, Ohio
Oct. 23, 2006
Hit the gap
Men's 60
143 posts
I just posted this under the "Einstein" message thread but I will also put it here as it fits:

I must give Einstein credit for his persistence and tenacity. I'm sure he brings the same kind of attitude to his game.

Here's the problem. Persistence is good to a point but there comes a time when it becomes annoying and overbearing. A good salesman knows when that time comes and runs the risk of being completely irrelevent and losing the sale when he crosses that line. In my opinion and from the responses on this board, Einstein has crossed that line many times. It's called beating a dead horse.

In an open forum you will always have a few people that will put up childish posts in response to that. Get over it. It's not the end of the world.

I look forward to Einsteins comments, questions and suggestions as long as they do not not become obsessive, repetitive and yes finally irrelevent.

Just my opinion and hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is given. I too would like to see this board as a place for the exchange of ideas and information.
Oct. 24, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
Yes it would be a civil case, but given the right set of circumstances, it very well could be a criminal case. #1: Lets say that you made a statement, as you were going to the plate (regular bat), that you were going to hit/kill the pitcher, and more that 3 people heard you, and then you did hit the pitcher with the batted ball, and it hurt him bad. If he wanted to press assault charges, he could. #2: you altered the bat that you took to the plate, you hit the pitcher with the batted ball. You hurt him bad. The bat is found to be altered (hot bat). If he wanted to press assault charges (after the bat has been found to be altered, or you admitted to it), he could. These examples are stretching it just a little, but a civil suit would either come by it’s self or after the criminal trial, should you be found guilty. There are many more scenarios, but either way, you butt is in a vise. Oh by the way, there would be a lot of others added to the civil suit (people manufactures, associations etc.What I am trying to show people is that it is not worth the risk to alter bats, and for sure not worth hurting anyone for. Example: There is a pitcher, he has been playing this game he loves for more than 30 years. You come to the plate with an altered bat, you hit the ball, and it hits him some were that just ends his playing days forever. How do you think that you should feel, and how do you think he will feel next year, the year after that etc. when he has to sit and watch because you decided not to play fair. Just remember that when you go to court, anything might happen. That’s why Lawyers have a job. No Lawyer Jokes Please.

Gene D. Riddlebaugh
Ohio Silverados #22
Dayton, Ohio
Oct. 24, 2006
badboy
8 posts
It shouldn't take an Einstein to know that there is no bat problam in Senior softball; 90%+ of the players use a Miken IIs! This inquisition-like dedication to rooting out a problem that doesn't exist is asinine. What is equally amusing is the hypocrisy of those who play (or played) at the elite level who have accepted for years thinned-walled bats from bat sponsors for every tournament. Sometimes those who squak the loudest have the most to hide...

Oct. 24, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
BATBOY: ILLEGAL BATS, several bat MFG & REPs', believe that SENIORS, have 30% of the SENIORS ARE using ILLEGAL BATS.

Check out E-BAY, & c how many bats r painted. Last month, how many brand new FREAKS were used in Palm Springs? FREAKS, have not been sold 4 almost 1.5 to 2 yrs, just replacement bats. FACT?? Most UMPS do not know what to look for, as far as an ILLEGAL BAT.

If, u do not mind, what age group do u play in?

U have stated: "What is equally amusing is the hypocrisy of those who play (or played) at the elite level who have accepted for years thinned-walled bats from bat sponsors for every tournament. Sometimes those who squak the loudest have the most to hide... " This might be true, but, from the SENIORS that I know, WE WOULD BEG TO DIFF'.

Last night I saw 1 ILLEGAL BAT used. I was offered $ 300 for one of my New U2's. My friend, was going to send this bat to S. Cal.', pay $ 200, & have that U-2, painted to look like a MIKEN FREAK PLUS.

YES, paid players r using ILLEGAL BATS. I know, several of these players.

Good Luck........ The STONEMAN........
Oct. 24, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
I just played a league game, when some ex-con player used a disguised Ultra II. He was caught and nothing was done, but ejection of the bat. He plays on a major team. Why do this? Because nothing is ever done. Therefore, use whatever bat and a lousy ball.
Oct. 25, 2006
badboy
8 posts
I agree that in associations that have not allowed the Miken II that there might be 30% of the players using altered bats. In the SSUSA this just isn't the case. A lot of the altered bats I see are painted MIken II's. I play 50 AAA and at the World in Seattle 90%+ used the Miken II. I did play in a non-sneior tournament a few weeks back and all of the best teams and players were using altered and/or painted bats so I know a problem exists. Unfortunately, the ASA has created a lot of this crap with their ridiculous bat and ball standards because they are not intume with what players want. I applaud the SSUSA for listening to their players...
Oct. 25, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Another little bomb tosser.
Badboy, you gutless piece of crap.
Who cares what you think, you coward.
You've got no honor and command no respect.
What you and your anonymous cadre of clowns
amount to is nothing.
You have nothing to say.
You amount to nothing
and rather than be ashamed of yourselves
like you would if you had any pride
you're probably amused by it all.

You represent something very well
however,
that is the problem our community faces
in attempting to resolve important issues.
Congratulations.
I take it back.
You're something, not nothing.
You're part of the problem and not the solution,
you pieces of crap.



Oct. 25, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Let's get back on the point.
What do do with/about illegal/altered bats.
We need to get rid of 'em.
We need to make a stand and come out categorically
against 'em.
On line, anywhere, everywhere.

Lifetime ban from all Associations .
Appointment to lifetime Hall of Shame.
Employment of honor code, i.e, signing affadavit
before every tournament that waives rights
of anyone who won't surrender a bat for scrutiny
along with pledge not to use or condone usage.

What else can we do?
Oct. 25, 2006
E. Ness
122 posts
As my team sits here in my office reading this message board waiting for the go or no go on a situation that we may have to deal with later today one of the members who plays softball started cracking up over this discussion.

He/she stated that it looks to him/her that less than 5% of the senior population is involved in using altered bats. He/she could not understand what the big deal is. It was then I reminded him/her that our who job is based on that less than 5% and then asked them just how bad that less than 5% can be when we have to deal with them. While altered bats in senior softball is not even close to what my team has to deal with it does remind us of one simple point.

If we as players/managers put a stop to this then it will be done. Same goes for my vocation. If elders/policy makers/leaders told those we deal with on a daily basis to stop it would be stopped. Einstein is correct to continue the fight over this but in the end we the players/managers have to step up to the plate and stop it. We don't need the associations to help. We don't need lawyers to get involved or court cases. We don't need more rules. What we do need is for our members to tell those they know that uses these bats enough is enough.

In the end it is what you don't say or do that speaks volumes of how you truely believe and feel. Before I took this position I am not currently employed in I use to believe that keeping quiet was the best thing but after the stuff I have seen and done I can tell you keeping quiet is not the answer. Things will only get worst and then when the time comes that you have had enough it will be too late to speak up.
Oct. 25, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
When Ultra 2's are legal
as they were in Vegas last month
we can swing them or
the bat I used and have been raving about,
Combat for Seniors.
We don't need no stinkin' altered bats.
Yet, I was told and could tell that some guys
in Vegas were using altered Ultra 2's.

So, I have 2 Combat for Seniors, got them from
Kevin at Anaconda.
They are both broken in
and they hit as well and better than an Ultra 2.
Look into them if you're looking for a legal way to
get through the illegal bat storm we are in, today.

Also, Kellysultimate Sports is now selling the Combat for Seniors, too.
Oct. 25, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Here is my take 5-10% would mean that at least 1 and possibly two players on every diamond is swinging altered bats, that is a big problem. What I have been doing and will continue to do when I'm on the field, we do not concentrate on players swinging UII, if you injure and the key word is injure a teammate we have preinstructed the TD and the game ump's that we want timeout and the ball and bat held to be tested at our teams expense, Again a UII injury will not draw our attention, theres an implied risk with this piece of equipment That is what we have done and by the way you should see the looks on the umps faces when they see you are serious. This is what we do not for everyones taste and it is a suggestion your own team should probably come up with a solution for one of your own. We will not let a teammate not have the best info at his disposal to do with what he feels is right.
Oct. 25, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
IMPORTANT NOTICE

If a pitcher is injured, do to a batted ball, and cannot continue further in the game (his/her manager decision ONLY), the bat used and the ball hit will be removed from the game. Both items will be examined by the Tournament Director or his designees, and either be returned within 1 hour or be kept for further examination/testing and or further action. If either item is kept, statements will be taken from all interested parties coming forward, and the umpire(s) of that game, and submitted with the item(s) in question. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS.
----------------------------------------------------------
Explanation: This type of notice could be placed at the sign in table, and sent with the Managers Tournament Package. Having the Manager make the decision to pull the pitcher, puts the burden on the Manager, not to sacrifice his pitcher for the rest of the game for no good reason. If the bat/ball is found to be changed/altered, then the association would then apply a prescribed action/penalty. There may be some holes in this, but any constructive criticism is welcome. I think that it is now time for all associations to come up with a unified policy on this subject.

Gene D. Riddlebaugh
Ohio Silverado #22
Dayton, Ohio
Oct. 25, 2006
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Just a thought.

In checking out various softball web sites and web sites such as ebay there are many products and services available to help people cheat. Maybe there could be a web site set up through SSSUA where we could report or cut and paste these as they are found. Hopefully the major associations and maybe the bat manufactures would be able to work together to root out and stop this type activity. They are the only ones that will have the legal clout, but, we as individuals will be able to assist by our vigilance.

Pete D.
#13/Black Hawks
Oct. 26, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
LECAK: GENE 22: PETE D: Monday night, I saw a small guy, under 160 lbs, hit several 360' bombs. He was swing' a New Easton. In the past, this person, used Mikens.

That same night, a player on my team, wanted me to sale him, one of my New U-2s. He was going to send the bat to S.Cal, & have that bat painted to look like the FREAK PLUS. COST ...$ 200.00 He also, wanted to know, if, he should have it shaved & a TITANIUM sleeve installed.

The problem(s): 1) It appears that many players do not feel that it is wrong to paint or shave a bat. 2) If, an Easton or MIKEN gets shaved, it will be almost impossible to tell, just by looks. 3) By install' a TITANIUM sleeve into a bat, that bat will last a long time. Maybe, a yr. or more. 4) Removing or install' a "FAKE" ISA , USSSA, or ASA DECAL. No ASA or USSSA decal, no law suite from ASA, etc. & 5) How many UMP's will be able to tell by sound, feel, or paint, if a bat has been ALTERED??

1) Unless Players feel that ILLEGAL bats r wrong. & stop this practice. 2) More Test' machines r brought. 3) Persons r taught how, to run a Test' Machine. 4) Machine shops stop SHAVING & PAINTING bats. THIS PROBLEM, will never go away.

As far as these Testing Machines: They take about 5 minutes to set up for each bat. If, 10 teams were to play, it would take 14 to 18 hrs, to test all 10 teams bats.

GREAT.....The STONEMAN
Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
Maybe all of you sanctimonious bat vigilantes can take up bowling next and rid the world of drilled balls...I'm sure most of you have also signed an oath not to drive over the speed limit and rid the world of hunger...On second thought, why don't we just go back to the good old days of wooden bats, horse and buggy, and growing potatoes in our backyards...

P.S. Einstein the combat is not better than the Miken II. You must get kickback for promoting it. Maybe another 247 harangues from you will convince me.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Badboy is a gutless appendage, no better than a terrorist,
attacking, tossing grenades and not backing up
what he says.
An ignorant coward who doesn't have the courage
to stand up and face his adversary.
A reckless phony up to no good.

That being said
I don't get anything from anyone for promoting anything
I think is valuable to pass along.
I kinda like the idea that I was the only guy
using a Combat in Vegas and has discovered how hot they get after 300 or so swings.
I've talked with a number of guys
who like me have decided the Combat
is now their bat of choice.

There's a lot of cheating and cheaters going on
in the world and in our Senior Softball world.
It's a very simple line to draw and will include
what we need to do about illegal/altered bats.
No cheating cause it destroys true competition
and all it's rewards.

So, all you guys who say there's nothing we can do about stuff, you're aiding and abetting the cheaters
and functionally, puts you on their side.
Say no more and help us or be recognized and labled
for the being the problem instead of the solution.

No more illegal bats.
No more cheating.

Yes or no.

All you Stalwarts,
Stoney,
Woody,
BillyMac,
Kenny L.
Time to help us make a stand and drive out these
cowards who are only thinking of themselves
and not what's good for the game and for all of us.

And lastly, for now,
if some coward hits me when I'm pitching using an illegal
bat I'm afraid I might become so upset
that I would lose my mind and take a bat to his skull.

Oct. 26, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Einstein the combat is becoming a not so well kept secret. Great bat and much more durable than the UII.
Oct. 26, 2006
60 Bill
27 posts
einstein, I have heard that there are guys on your team that are using altered bats, if this is true (unknown source) are you policing them?

Bill
Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
Mr. Joe Einstein and his pristine team would never use altered bats--especially in the USSSA tournament in Salem this year. Didn't you guys get together in a circle and swear an oath at the beginning of the year that you would all be paragons of virtue and uphold the scout law to never use altered bats...Those JH's are right out of the wrapper! Those who squak the most are often the ones that have the most to hide...

P.S. Hey Einstein, I might give you my name and number and maybe we could go out on a date sometime. I'll pick you up in my carriage. Will go to a releativity conference together. Anything to get you out of the house and off this site.
P.S.S. I probably am a piece of crap as you called me but it usually takes one to sniff another one out. Since when
do appendages have guts? Your rapier wit is amusing...
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Some gutless cowards make an accusation or 2
they can't document and won't stand up for
and no one of any merit cares.

Why do we have a system
predicated on "innocent until proven guilty."
Cause otherwise malignant pieces of crap like
60 and Badboy who are cut from the same cloth,
would have and use their unaccounted power
to punish anyone they don't like.

Real men, fair-minded men,
don't give any credence to anyone who makes an accusation just for doing so
ESPECIALLY when they can't back it up
with who they are.

We've all spoiled this malignant brats by providing a forum
where they can vomit and masterbate themselves
under the guise of commentary and opinion.
These babiers think our forum belongs to them
and we're messing with their sandbox.

Maybe we should start restricting their anonymous access
or maybe like some of the other guys
we all should weigh in and let them know
what we really think of them.

Remember,
these cowards are amused by all of this
and will never stand up like men.
Don't give them any credence
regarding anything they say,
now or ever.


Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
You are just a petty muckraker Einstein. We don't play by your rules and you don't like it. Your Don King charm is amusing though. I couldn't agree more, throw everyone who doesn't agree with you off this site. Back to the question though, did you say that your team doesn't use altered bats? I'm sure many of us are waiting your answer. When you get a chance, shoot it back to us at the speed of light.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey gutless,
Who cares what you have to say.
Why if you were a man I'd owe you an answer.
But you're not.

You're no better than a terrorist
who wants to criticize and displace people
but doesn't have the stones
to show up like a man.

You're pitiful and have NOTHING to say.
Oct. 26, 2006
Older Than Dirt
Men's 50
28 posts
Actually, it would appear that he has quite a bit to say.

Inquiring minds want to know!

What' does he know that we don't?

yours trully,
anonymous
Oct. 26, 2006
Older Than Dirt
Men's 50
28 posts
Actually, it would appear that he has quite a bit to say.

Inquiring minds want to know!

What' does he know that we don't?

yours trully,
anonymous
Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
I thought you would squirm on this one...you have been exposed for what you are witch-hunt clown. How do you sleep when your bed is burning now genius? Does your team use altered bats? It is a simple question. As you know, you once said "keep it simple but only as simple as you have to"...You do remember saying that don't you Einstein? What are you afraid of, the TRUTH???
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Another gutless wonder
or maybe you're all the same guy
or girl, or old lady or teenage
boy with pimples or who knows who.
You got nothing to say to me
you cowards, now or ever.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You know, it comes to mind
that all this resistance is coming in response to
the altered/illegal bat issue.
They keep saying doing, whatever to change the subject
from what are we going/prepared to do
about this difficult and terrible problem.

We need to act powerfully and meaningfully
as I have grown to learn over the past few months,
the sooner the better,
to rid ourselves of these weapons and their allies.

At best these clowns
are creating smoke to stop the movement
to get rid of cheaters and their weapons of mass
destruction.
They're probably the biggest cheaters of all.
Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
Einstein: It is a simple question choir boy. Does your team use illegal bats? If they are, why are you leading the charge? Let me say it again, there is not a problem with illegal bats where the Miken II is allowed. You might have an issue at your level but there is not one below the major level where most of us play. There is a problem with illegal bats where the Miken II is not allowed. What do you disagree with about that?
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Have I called you a gutless coward, yet
this thread, you gutless coward?
You are no one and as such
have NOTHING to say.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'd like to know and perhaps you can tell us
what it's like to be called out for being a coward
and not defending yourself?
When someone calls me out
it makes me crazy not to stand up for myself.
Don't you have any pride or sense of right and wrong
that governs your behavior?
Don't you care what others think of you?
Oh yeah, that's right, you've concealed yourself
so we can't really know who you are and formulate
any opinions about you...
like a coward, a clown, a scared boy
or a terrorist.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I'd like to know and perhaps you can tell us
what it's like to be called out for being a coward
and not defending yourself?
When someone calls me out
it makes me crazy not to stand up for myself.
Don't you have any pride or sense of right and wrong
that governs your behavior?
Don't you care what others think of you?
Oh yeah, that's right, you've concealed yourself
so we can't really know who you are and formulate
any opinions about you...
like a coward, a clown, a scared boy
or a terrorist.
Oct. 26, 2006
badboy
8 posts
I was really hoping to develop a relationship with you Einstein based on mutual trust but you have beaten me into submission with your sardonically-cankered humor and silence. I am sad to say all my meaninful attempts to capture your respect will now be an erswhile pursuit of mine. I'll see you on the ball field...but how could I miss your silver crop...And by the way, I really do think those JHs your team uses are equal to any Miken II or Combat. Bye bye. I miss you already...:)

Oct. 26, 2006
Older Than Dirt
Men's 50
28 posts
Hey Badboy,I hate to see you go. I love pushing Joe's buttons. He's ridiculously easy, and I laugh my ass off at his responses. All he cares about is discrediting us, without ever answering the "real" questions about himself or his team. It's really pretty funny when it comes right down to it. Good luck out there. It's a jungle. LMAO!!!!!!!!!
Oct. 26, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
Hey Einstien it must be tough going through life knowing that when you were a kid you were picked last on the kickball team, never got to be the "goose" in duck duck goose, and never figured out how to play musical chairs, just to name a few. You are starting to show your true colors. You only answer direct questions with another question.

Now heres a question for you: "Do you and your team, use alter bats?" Just answer it honestly it won't hurt I promise. LMAO!!!!!!
Oct. 26, 2006
60 Bill
27 posts
Thank you bad boy and older then dirt for your questions to einstein (please change your name as it disrespects the real one). Please anser the question about you team, as it looks like there are right.

Bill
Oct. 26, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
Gripit&Ripit & 60 BILL:: 2 wrongs do not make a right. U may be having fun & u may have gotten Einstein's, goat.

Why, should Einstein, answer uer question? Kevin, from Fla, thanks 4 sign' in & post' who u r !! Bill, it is O.K., that u do not or have no reason to sign in!!

Kevin & Bill, r u sure that u want to go down this road? A true friend, will stand up for his friends. Even in bad weather. I STAND UP 4 MY 'FRIENDS' on M. Kelly's Team.
U may not know me or respect me. But, many of these men do have the 'most' respect from MAJOR PLUS SENIORS.

Boys, r u asking if: Mike B, Jim M, Rick P, Bam, Tommy C, Joe F, Don C, Einstein, Denny, Bull, & a few others do 'CHEAT."

M. Kelly's Team. R the 2 of u, awear, of the great players, that play 4 Mike. R u sure that u want to ask that question?
"Do you and your team, use alter bats?" Not only r u implying that Einstein, BUT, other Kelly's player also, use ILLEGAL BATS!!!!

Would u please, re-think this REASONING. Fun, Goat', Bait', can get out of hand. Guys, u have had yer fun & made yer point. WHAT, have the ball players on M. Kelly's, team done to u guys? Several of these men, R Men of HONOR. Men, who have served yer COUNTRY. These men have done nothing to u, or wronged u an any way.

SORRY.... It is not my place to direct u in though! HAVE SOME FUN. The STONEMAN.....................JACK, TIME.

Oct. 26, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
Gentleman:

There have been 20+ posts since my message “Important”. The vast majority of which have been devoted to MUD Slinging. It really does not matter what the persons past is when it comes to this serious discussion, so put aside your personal problems for the awhile, and address the issue at hand. My post “Important” is a simple but serious attempt at where to start to fix this problem. I may not be entirely correct, but at least give it a chance to live or die on it’s own merits. Serious replies only. I post it for the last time below.


IMPORTANT NOTICE

Please Read Carefully

If a pitcher is injured, do to a batted ball, and cannot continue further in the game (his/her manager decision ONLY), the bat used and the ball hit will be removed from the game. Both items will be examined by the Tournament Director or his designees, and either be returned within 1 hour or be kept for further examination/testing and or further action. If either item is kept, statements will be taken from all interested parties coming forward, and the umpire(s) of that game, and submitted with the item(s) in question. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS.
----------------------------------------------------------
Explanation: This type of notice could be placed at the sign in table, and sent with the Managers Tournament Package. Having the Manager make the decision to pull the pitcher, puts the burden on the Manager, not to sacrifice his pitcher for the rest of the game for no good reason. If the bat/ball is found to be changed/altered, then the association would then apply a prescribed action/penalty. There may be some holes in this, but any constructive criticism is welcome. I think that it is now time for all associations to come up with a unified policy on this subject.

Gene D. Riddlebaugh
Ohio Silverado #22
Dayton, Ohio
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I think you're on to something, Gene.
But I wouldn't limit it to having to leave a game.
Any shot that causes any injury to any fielder,
not just the pitcher, is fair game for me.
Then the bat and ball are confiscated pending further investigation.
If the player, team doesn't surrender the bat
immediately, they are disqualified frorm the tournament and the player should be banned for life.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Kevin,
Are you a real person?
Email me at joerinaldi56@yahoo.com
and as your serious we'll talk.
I have lots to say to someone who's seriously interested
in my history, stances and opinions.
These phonies aren't worth anyone's time.
Oct. 26, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The readers, the folks who read from our board
are the audience I am talking to and for.
These anonymous clowns are helping us to flesh out
what's important and what's trash.
They and their behavior embody the non accountable,
irresponsible aspect of our society that helps make it
difficult to try to get anything done.
But through exposure and awareness
we all will grow together
despite them and their disrespect of themselves
and us.
The truth will set us free
and we can't be stopped.
Oct. 27, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
Einstein:

Stay on tract. Here is a revision: This sign would be posted at the sign in table, and supplied with the managers packet, for any tournament.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT NOTICE

Please Read Carefully

If any fielder is injured, by a batted ball, and cannot continue further in the game(his/her manager decision ONLY), the bat used and the ball hit will be removed from the game. Both items will be examined by the Tournament Director or his designees, and either be returned within 1 hour or be kept for further examination/testing and or further action. If either item is kept, statements will be taken from all interested parties coming forward, and the umpire(s) of that game, and submitted with the item(s) in question. Failure to surrender the bat in question will result in the player who used the bat and his manager, being ejected from the tournament. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The player would have to leave the game, or the manager of a questionablely hurt player could use this event to get a bat out of the game, just to piss someone off. The Associations would need a unified penalty for altered bats, but first things first. Lets have more ideas.
Oct. 27, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
Gary:

Please read it again. I respect your view, but to be against something, you must be for something. This in no way rewards a hurt player. He/ she also pays a price + his/her team by being removed from the rest of the game, which they would normaly if they were hurt. In every problem, there is no quick fix, but usualy a series of fixs. I believe that this is a good starting point. If you have another idea, I would be pleased to work with you or anyone on it.

Gene D. Riddlebaugh
Ohio Silverado #22
Oct. 27, 2006
rick46204
Men's 55
4 posts
Gene-- Question--if a pitcher is hit and sidelined-- bat/ball taken for review and batter removed from the game....game continues and the team whose equipment was questioned loses. If later the equipment is determined to be legal-- should the game be replayed?
Oct. 27, 2006
60 Bill
27 posts
Joe(einstein dosn't fit) please anser my question from yesterday, thank you. (yes or no, easy)

Thank you Bill
Oct. 27, 2006
60 Bill
27 posts
spelling bad!
Oct. 27, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
If the Bat, Ball, and hitter come out of the game after an injury, your opening up a whole new can of worms. I can see it now: Best stud hitter, player, comes up in the 3rd or 4th inning. Hits a screaming BB to the 3rd baseman. The 3rd baseman catchs it in the palm of the glove, ya it hurts so what, but the 3rd baseman goes into an oscar winning proformace. Danceing around like its really hurts or broken, its hurts real bad but not broken but he could continue to play. Then he takes himself out of the game with a fantom injury so there best player has to sit for probably the rest of the game.

Here comes the sandbagging, the fantom injuries, the oscar winning proformances and whatever you can think of, just to get the best player out of the game.
Oct. 27, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
If the Bat, Ball, and hitter come out of the game after an injury, your opening up a whole new can of worms. I can see it now: Best stud hitter, player, comes up in the 3rd or 4th inning. Hits a screaming BB to the 3rd baseman. The 3rd baseman catchs it in the palm of the glove, ya it hurts so what, but the 3rd baseman goes into an oscar winning proformace. Danceing around like its really hurts or broken, its hurts real bad but not broken but he could continue to play. Then he takes himself out of the game with a fantom injury so there best player has to sit for probably the rest of the game.

Here comes the sandbagging, the fantom injuries, the oscar winning proformances and whatever you can think of, just to get the best player out of the game.
Oct. 27, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
Sorry about the double post hit the refesh button, my bad. Should my key board, my mouse, and my tower be sidlined now till its checked out. LMAO!!!!!!!
Oct. 27, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
I agree "GARY19" your 100% right. Players ability will play a big role.
Oct. 27, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Has anyone given thought that at some point this discussion could be taken out of the players hands and dictated by some government agency. It is not as far fetched as you would think, I believe there is some movement currently taking place in New Jersey to ban all bats not made of wood (it is for youth ball). What if someone takes this to the next level. Maybe someone from New Jersey could confirm what is going on at the youth level. Again it would not be a stretch to se this extended beyond youth. I can see it now teams that travel would now have to Know rules by association and jurisdiction. Think of some of the laws that are in place throughout society, food for thought.
Oct. 27, 2006
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
If $$$$ is part of the problem as to why teams donot file a protest for altered bats put a bucket at the sign-in table and I will put $100 in for any team to use to file a protest on a bat or a player
Wes
Oct. 27, 2006
Hit the gap
Men's 60
143 posts
Policing the altered bat situation should be left in the hands of the bat manuftacturers,Tournament Directors and the umpires.

With the right education from the right people, TD's and umpires should have a better chance of spotting them.

Umpires used to routinly check the bats before every game. What happened to that? I rarely see that happen any more.

I agree with Gary 19. It is not realistic to stop the game and confiscate the bat etc., etc. every time someone is injured by a hit ball. Too may bad hops and misplayed balls for that to happen.

Just way too many hotheads to have players involved in any way. The only time a player should have any input is if he knows of another player on his team using an altered bat. Then he should do the right thing and report it directly to the TD.

There have always been cheaters and liars and they will always find a way if they are so inclined. It's endemic in our society and comes from the top down. All you have to do is look no farther than our political leaders.

Oct. 27, 2006
Gene22
Men's 55
78 posts
This blog is to long....Starting new one.See "IMPORTANT NOTICE"
Oct. 29, 2006
Bread
11 posts
I feel about my bat as I do my gun...You will have to pry it from my cold dead hands!!!..And I dont Cheat.I will back that up anywhere anytime.The governing bodies should control the bats period!!!

Nov. 2, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Just wanted to update and bring to light, my issue about using an altered bat. I hope this player reads this ad and understands the lesson that he is going to learn. I was at lunch with some guys from our league and the topic of this guy that used an altered bat came up again. I said I was not pitching anything that was considered a strike to him again. The guys at lunch said they were intentially walking him, regardless of the situation of the game. The Umps should have banned him for a year or lifetime. The knob of the bat came off, and the ump saw and said this was an altered end-loaded bat. Since the person in charge of this league did not make the correct call here to keep this from happening in the future, the teams and their pitchers have all agreed to stick together and walk him every time. I believe this will take care of the problem, our way.
Nov. 3, 2006
Proudtex40
57 posts
Joe (Einstein), I agree that "if" a player is found gulity (beyond a shadow of doubt) of using an illegal bat I believe he should be banned for life. However, I also believe the term "illegal" must be clearly defined. In the ASA Burlington tournament a bat was removed from the game because it had excessive tape on the handle. Obviously that person shouldn't be banned for life. However, if a bat is "painted over" or something along these lines then I truly believe that should constitute a life time ban. Until the various association come up with a common punishment I believe this will continue to be a problem.

Last point Joe, you are way to smart to let these "no names" get to you. Maybe if they had your softball skills and integrity they would realize that you have brought some important topics to this site. We all have opinions and I believe expressing those opinions in an adult manner is great for the cause. Hope to see you in a few tournaments next year. Take care and God Bless to all.
Steve Shannon
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