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Discussion: LVSSA WORLD TOURNAMENT

Posted Discussion
Oct. 26, 2006
SCRAPPY6
55 posts
LVSSA WORLD TOURNAMENT
HAVE NOT HEARD MUCH FROM TEAMS THAT PLAYED IN THE LVSSA WORLD TOURNAMENT OCT 6-8. WE WERE VERY UPSET AS TO HOW THE TOURNAMENT WAS RUN. BASICALLY PAID FOR A 3 DAY TOURAMENT AND PLAYED ONE DAY. RAIN IS ALWAY A FACTOR BUT WE FELT THAT THE GAMES WERE CALLED OFF WAY TO EARLY ON FRIDAY. I UNDERSTAND THE CITY MAKES THE CALL BUT IT WAS WRONG. WE WERE AT DOC ROMEO AT 10:00 ON FRIDAY AND THE FIELDS WERE EASILY PLAYABLE.
MANY TEAMS WERE IN THE WRONG CLASSIFICATION. SAW SOME AA TEAMS WITH 5 -6 GUYS HITTING IT OUT OF THE PARK!! VERY GOOD AA PLAYERS. SAME WITH AAA GAMES THAT I SAW. NOTHING WRONG WITH TATERS BUT BRACKETS SEEMED VERY UNEVEN.
WHAT DID YA THINK?
Oct. 26, 2006
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
The games at Freedom Park were rained out on Friday too. We were there by 9:00 am and the games were already called for the whole day. Two of the fields were in great shape and the other two, with a small amount of work, would have been playable. One of the teams from Texas had batting practice on one of the fields and they didnít even make footprints. One of our guys spoke with the TD the next day and he said he didnít know anything about that because he was working (at his place of employment). That sounds kind of cavalier when most of the people that played in that tournament had to take 2 days off their jobs to participate.

My point is if you are going to hold a tournament, and ask teams to come in on Thursday for Friday games, you have to at least try to get those games in, not just go off to work. If someone had been out there working the fields the City probably wouldnít have called everything off. Having to play only two seeding games, with all the games being 5 innings with 1 & 1 count on Saturday, leaves you feeling shortchanged.
Oct. 26, 2006
Duke
Men's 60
697 posts
I agree with 100% Ken!!!!
Oct. 27, 2006
Stones 1B
Men's 55
52 posts
LVSSA...

Played in the 50's the week prior.
Boy talk about classifications, rules, players, etc.
LVSSA takes the cake, I understand that running a tourney is time consuming and darn right difficult at times but...

rule state that teams must be in uniform alike in color and style...NOT

no players may have the same/duplicate #'s NOT...

players that were on a team that got "suspended" from the 2005 tourney for using an illegal bat...Oops "only suspended" if they used the bat. How would anyone know that they used the bat or not? was the question. Answer they have pictures from the EyeCon photographers from last showing if they used the bat or not...NOT.
This same team won the 2006 AA Texas Pride that was actually a AAA team with a couple of players from the same team that got thrown out of the 2005 tourney for using a very badly painted grey ultra...it was painted to look like a Nike bat...they had the swoosh going the wrong way. So laughable.

They moved a AAA team down to AA I guess to make the brackets even or for whatever reason. Hard to figure out.

Make rules, play by the rules, enforce the rules.
That's not hard at all.
LVSSA do the right thing by the rules...the teams that are in the wrong will grumble the most when "caught" trying to bend the rules...all the other teams will respect the tourney and the officials and keep coming back bec' the tourney is run in a first class manner.
Other than going to LV for the trip/vacation the tournament needs work...LVSSA do it for the players that are trying to play by the rules.
Oct. 27, 2006
Michael
Men's 55
18 posts
The only group who didn't get shortchanged by the LVSSA was the LVSSA. They asked us to compromise and play an adjusted schedule but why didn't they "compromise" and refund a portion of their entry fees? It seems fair to me, especially if their goal is to put on a world class tournament that the players can count on as being one of the best every year. This kind of action would distinguish them as an organization that cared about the players. If their goal is simply to make money for their organization then, of course, there would be no desire or need to make any refunds. In regards to the fields at Freedom Park, they were definitely playable. In regards to cheating teams the LVSSA had only to look at the National rating service that we all look at and find that their home team, the Las Vegas Heat, was rated as a major team and yet they were allowed to play in the AAA division. As for other teams that were cheating, I'm sure there were some because there always is.
Oct. 27, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
SENIORS: As a member of LVSSA, I truly am sorry, about some of the past events.

Here r some of the Boards E-MAILS:
FRED TURNIER'S: FANDRT@COX.NET
STEVE SOLOMON'S: SPSOLO1941@YAHOO.COM

If, u go on line, u can get more E-MAILS & phone numbers. Go to LVSSA.

KEN: The city workers & MGR, would not let the club work on the fields. Parks & Rec', have a new policy. Let the fields dry out on there own. Parks & Rec ', MGR, believe that using brooms, rakes, etc, r what ruin the City's field in the past. This past yr, City employees have worked to get the "valleys" out of the infields.
SORRY, but, this is no B.S.

LVSSA, get the fields 4 our club's 2 events 4 free. LVSSA, has been warned about getting water off the fields. No broom, rakes, etc.

As far as FIELD DIRECTORS, not all fields had the same DIRECTOR, each day. Some DIRECTORS, worked 1 day, others 2-3 days, & one man worked as a FIELD DIRECTOR 5 straight days.

STONES 1B: Classification of TEAMS: Several teams were moved up in the ratings Monday. Several teams had no ratings. LVSSA, tried to get ratings & no one answered our 'call.' please, ck my POST.
Teams that were moved up @ the last minute, stayed @ the lower classification. WHY? Bracketing.

Jack Taylor's 55 HEAT: They r & have been a AAA, TEAM for 2 yrs. Bad Blood, between players, have caused a riff, in VEGAS. Several players from a major team were cut, that team went up to M+; the new M+ team quit. PLEASE, ask other teams & they will tell u that THE HEAT is an average AAA team.

LVSSA, has had problems w; 1) Players playing down 1 to 2 divisions. 2) Teams changing Names & MRG's. 3) Several teams combining 4) Major Plus, players winning a World, & the next wk, win a World in Vegas, in Majors. 5) ETC.

ALSO: LVSSA, has had several changes. New Board, people quit or move. If, teams, players, etc r not honest, how is the LVSSA, going to police matters? AS A CLUB MEMBER, I can not speak 4 the CLUB. LVSSA, welcomes any help, suggestion, & wants to run a FIRST CLASS
EVENT.

U can E-Mail me, & I will try to get u a responce.
The STONEMAN
Oct. 27, 2006
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Stones: Ref your statement about the Texas Pride. Can you be more specific? Which team in 2005 got thrown out of the tournament? Do you recall which players? I know all of these men. I have played with and against everyone of them. I also run local tournaments in Houston and would be interested in anyone using an illegal bat. Rather important since I pitch against these guys in games. I am not aware of any of them or a Texas team being removed from that tournament, but then again I am 60 and some what senile. I do know this much, every player on that team was approved by the association prior to their playing. These guys are friends of mine but if one or more is using an illegal bat you can rest assured I will be checking and they won't be in any tournament I run or play in. Our league is very safety conscious. I 'd appreciate any additional info you may have. You can email me or I can call you. Thanks
Greg Thomas
Christian Brothers Auto
60's 3A
Houston Texas
Oct. 27, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
GT: I SENT THIS REQUEST, to 3 club members.

1) Pres.'--- Fred T @ fandrt@cox.net
2) Tourn.' Comm.' Steve S, @ spsolo1941@yahoo.com
3) BIG Al V. @ avera42141@aol.com

I will ask, around this wkend. Let me know, if, u get a response, from these MEN.

The STONEMAN......
Oct. 27, 2006
armiho211
Men's 70
407 posts
STONEMAN--LVSSA RULE # 1-A # 2-, has to do with players playing down one classification. QUESTION: HOW MANY MAJOR PLAYERS ARE ALLOWED TO DROP DOWN TO PLAY ON A AAA TEAM ? the rule does not mention number of drop down players per team. is this correct ? i dont see why LVSSA would allow a stronger player or players to be added to a weaker team, this changes the parity of the teams involved, because things are not equal anymore. my team, ( 65 GREYHOUNDS AAA ) PLAYED WITH THE GUYS WE PLAYED WITH ALL YEAR, as far as i am concerned this is the way it be should be. if players get hurt before the LVSSA tournament and the team has to add on players, WHY SHOULDNT THEY BE LIMITED TO ADD PLAYERS IN THE SAME CLASSIFICATION OR LOWER. THIS IS ONLY FAIR TO YOUR COMPETITION., if the above rule doesnt limit stronger players, then why not add 5 OR 6 major players to a AAA TEAM. thanks, stone for your response. frank armijo
Oct. 27, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
ARMIHO 211: LVSSA, has a few Volunteers, that try & check out teams & ratings. Some of these men & women, do make calls to other Summit Members.

Example: We has a Major Plus Team, drop down & play AAA. This Team changed it's name & coach. There were @ least 6 M+, players. We heard about it on Friday. Late Saturday, we had no help. I had to go around & ask several teams about these 6 players. No team or Players, would go w/ me & talk to Steve S. This team took 4th or 5th.

The SUMMIT, will try this winter, to get their members to send the Names of Major Plus Teams & players to other Summit members. (EX.) SS-USA, send their list to ISA, ISSA, SPA, & LVSSA. ISA, send their list to SS-USA, SPA, ISSA, LVSSA, & so forth.

THIS PROBLEM COULD GET SOLVED, IF, A PLAYERS I.D. card stated4 the yr 2007, just what division that person had played in 2007. This could be cked, @ Qualifiers, Events, & Worlds. this is a problem,

The SUMMIT, may talk about I.D. CARD'S . Please, write or call Your local SUMMIT REP.

I believe that LVSSA, is part of the SSWC. thereforth, SSWC rules apply. In the past, a Major team could have only 3 M+, players on it's roster. AAA, could have 4 Major players. AA, could have only 4 AAA players. AGAIN, I AM NOT 100%, on this ruling.

FRANK... Hope this helps...The STONEMAN........
Oct. 28, 2006
#7
Men's 55
2 posts
why hasn't the LVSSA posted any results???
Oct. 28, 2006
#7
Men's 55
2 posts
Re: OCT 6-8. I was at Doc Romeo at 7:30 am and one field had a puddle where the ump stands and standing water at the infield/outfield transition. OK- the city wouldn't let the groundskeepers touch the field but wait -we're in the middle of a desert -where the outlook is for 85 and clearing skies- why not delay for a couple of hours( I did learn the next day that the fields were only available until 3 pm that day so it was easy to just call it off rather than to squeeze things in) ok- then to schedule us the next day for Lorenzi where there were lightpoles in the outfield at 275 was incredible- but we only had to play 5 innings each game -why only 5 on Sunday too though??!! (we actully paid for this!!) and this while the ladies were scheduled at Doc Romeo- they needed the 310' clearance I guess.
I also participated on the winning 50's AAA team at Freedom Park the week previous and those fields were really bad- crushed stone in the outfields where the wear out spots are!! Not as bad as Plano, Tx though where we had a misplayed ball by the Indiana team roll under the centerfield fence requiring our runners to go back to second and third and costing us the game( next batter flew out to end the game 7-6)
oh well -- can't wait for next year!!
Oct. 28, 2006
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
I can tell you personally about the crushed stone in the outfield. I attempted to make a sliding catch on a sinking liner and hit one of those spots with my knee. My teammates said all they could see was a big cloud of dust and me flying end over end, lol. The City of Las Vegas should consider a different option in repairing the wear spots in the outfield if they want to promote grass growing out there.

One more comment about the tournament, and this is aimed at all the organizations. I know the LVSSA attempted to put on the best event that they could. I think most of us (especially those of us who wouldnít travel to Seattle) were looking forward to having as good a tournament as we have had in past years. When you donít get the same result, you want to vent. We essentially ended up with half a tournament. I hope they (and the other organizations) use the problems with the fields and cheaters playing-down as lessons on how not to run their events in the future. We NEED better and proactive planning for the national events. We want you to have a contingency plan if it rains. We want the boxes to be maintained, not just pushing the dust back into 4-inch deep holes. Please donít be surprised when teams try to cheat. If you anticipate problems (and you should) it will be easier to react when teams show up with players on the roster that donít belong there. These are the same guys that show up on rosters at all the national level events. It shouldnít be that hard to react when there is a question about cheating. You could put all the guys that have qualified for a M+ roster in other organizations on one page of a word processing document. The organizations MUST share this info (itís in their mutual best interest) and if these guys show up on a AAA roster then boot the team and take their entry fee! Please, if you want your events recognized as national caliber and charge the inflated entry fee, do the homework that is required. (Sorry this is so long, had a lot to say.)
Oct. 28, 2006
armiho211
Men's 70
407 posts
STONEMAN: 1 ) do you think that if LVSSA put out a player card like all other associations, would it help control this problem with players or teams cheating ? the money generated by the sale of the cards would allow LVSSA hire more people to assist in running a true and clean tournament. by requiring each player to have his own card, they should be able to control and keep players in their level of play. i for one wouldnt mind paying for a LVSSA CARD, ( no card ,no play,period ! ) if this will help in controlling the situation. -2) what you think about starting a topic on this board, addressed to the associations, this topic would be to address complaints and concerns from all players about anything and everything that needs attention or needs to be fixed by the summit group. the topic complaints can be reviewed by the summit before their meeting and try to fix or respond to player concerns or complaints. again, i appreciate your response as you are in touch with the LVSSA, thanks, frank armijo
Oct. 29, 2006
jrhunch
85 posts
please no more cards.we pay enough already.we should have 1 centralized card and i centralized set of rules.we are overpaying way too much.over 500.00 a tourney is way out of line.how do they justify the expense.if the cards aren't working in the other asscs. then they wont work here.what we need is asscs.doing their jobs.right now they arent earning their money.we should start having a say in this game.we need representation and unity.how come in usssa 40's and 35's they dont have to pay for a card.how come they dont have to wait over an hour in line the night before the tourney to sign in?how come asa bans our bats and we let them do it.why are we playing tournies with batters bopxes have a rug down with a hole the size of a football in it?lights inside the field of play is dangerous.we as players should have a say in field selection,the fields for world tournies should be preapproved by a panel of players.the ball issue should also be up to the players as well.if asscs dont give us a say we should boycott them or someone should start up a real senior softball org. that caters to seniors only.we should start boycotting asa right now.it may sound harsh but is necessary.viva senior softball viva the revolution.adrian twist max spice #11
Oct. 29, 2006
stattad
Men's 65
167 posts
I am under the impression that SSUSA doesn't keep a database with everyone's names and the teams they play with.

Wouldn't this be a great start to "catching" players that play on multiple teams? It would probably take 3-4 hours for each tournament to input the information.
Oct. 30, 2006
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Stattad,

Why are you under the impression that they donít keep a database of the rosters from their qualifiers? It only stands to reason that they would have to or they couldnít question anyoneís eligibility or status in the national tournaments. At least I HOPE they do. I find it hard to believe that they would have this means at their disposal and not use it. It would make it easy for a TD to access the database and solve any questions about rosters within minutes. All they would have to do is look at the rosters and they would know which level the teams qualified. Nobody could ask the fee for our cards and the inflated entry fees for the tournaments and not use this obvious tool to eliminate problems. Hmmm.
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