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Discussion: Strangest play I have ever seen

Posted Discussion
June 23, 2014
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Strangest play I have ever seen
This past weekend this happened and after I dug deeper the umpire was correct

Bases loaded with 1 out battter hits it in the gap ruuner on third scores then runner on 2 nd scores runner on firts gets thrown out between third and home. mean while the batter runner is standing on third. The defense appeals the runner on third missed first and was called out. Umpire rule that no runs counted because the third out of the inning was a force out at first was the 3rd ouit and no runs counted. I was totally confused and looked it up and that was the correct ruling.

Kudos to that umpire for knowing that one
June 23, 2014
Fred S
Men's 80
84 posts
There are umps out there that know what they are doing.
June 23, 2014
BudLeftField
56 posts
I would have thought that since 2 runs had already scored before the 2nd out was made, that they should have counted. If the batter hit with 2 outs and he missed 1st base, then I would say no runs scored if the appeal was enforced. I'm surprised that such a unique play is covered in the rule book.
June 23, 2014
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
It is but kind of tricky
It says that if the third out of an inning is a force out that no preceding runs would count.

Same scenerio is if a runner that is on second runs off the bag and a tag is applied and the SS throws to 1st before the Batter runner gets to 1st it would not matter if the runner at third scored before the out at first was made .
Since the batter runner in the above scenerio never touched 1st that made it a force out and the force out was the third out of the inning
Aug. 10, 2014
Paul P
Men's 65
43 posts
In a similar situation in a Florida Half Century Tournament, runners on first and third, two outs. Batter his a single to left, the runner on first advanced to third but missed second base. (Everyone agrees, umpires, players and even the runner, that he missed the bag)

It was my argument that it's a force out, third out and the lead run should not have scored.

However, the umpires (and the tournament director) ruled that its a "timing play" based on an appeal that the runner missed second. I was told had we "continued" the play and thrown the ball to second base, it WOULD have been a force out and no run scored.

My argument to that was, the umpires, in their haste to call "TIME" after the play was basically over, did not allow us to pursue that avenue so we were forced to call an appeal, which, obviously was ruled in our favor, less the run scoring!

It was all a moot point, as we were winning the game handily, so I let it go. Any thoughts?
Aug. 10, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
998 posts
should of been out no run scored just like the first post! runner never reached second base no matter how far he ran around the bases.. it's still a force!
Aug. 11, 2014
B.J.
53 posts
its a force out .....no runs scored.....again why dont UIC's answer the rules questions
Aug. 11, 2014
Webbie25
Men's 60
1973 posts
It is a strange play , but I have actually seen it happen twice. I was playing baseball in the Iowa state championships in Watkins, and one of our guys hit a home run with the bases loaded and 2 outs. They appealed that he missed first, and after having to run to Cedar Rapids to find a rule book and going half the night, they ruled no runs. We got done about 3 in the morning with that game.
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
two runs should have counted.the out between third and home was the third out since the force at first base would have been second out a.you can't take those runs off the board when they already scored.
Aug. 11, 2014
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Wrong the appeal is a time play that makes the 3rd out on the apeall
Aug. 11, 2014
B.J.
53 posts
Garocket...not all appeal plays are time plays. If a runner is FORCED to advance such as PaulP's scenario "runners on first and third, two outs". that runner missing 2nd base is still considered a form of a force out on appeal and runner scoring from 3rd would not count
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
if there was a runner on first and third and one out and fly ball to left field the runner on third tagged up and runner on first leaves too soon the ball is thrown to first without time being called for the third out the run still counts if he scored before the ball was thrown to first.i still say that in your situation the two runs should have counted.i say the umpire was wrong.if there were two outs when the batter was up then the two runs wouldn't have counted
Aug. 11, 2014
B.J.
53 posts
jrhunch you are correct on your first scenario with runner returning to 1st base runner from 3rd would score. I'm not sure what you mean by 2 runs should have counted in PaulP's scenario his runner scored from 3rd and runner on 1st ended up on 3rd.
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
b.j. i was talking about garockets situation i believe the ump made the wrong call and two runs should have scored
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
b.j. paul p was right in his situation run should not been allowed to score.the umpire was wrong
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
b.j. i am saying that in garockets situation that 2 runs scored before the guy was tagged out running for home thus that makes two outs so the only runner after that was the batter who missed first he became the third out.there were no preceding runners in front of him.i believe the rule states if the appeal out is the third out for missing firstbase preceding runners shall not score.preceding runners between the second and third out is where i am making my stand.i say the ump was wrong.
Aug. 11, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
i wouldn't bet on it though
Aug. 12, 2014
BudLeftField
56 posts
Hi jrhunch-I agree with you. That is exactly the point I made in my post of june 23. Sometimes it is the interpretation of the rule by the ump at the game that takes precedence, but common sense should prevail.Perhaps this is another timing play?
Aug. 12, 2014
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Just going by the rule book If the 3rd out of the inning is a force out no preceeding runs should count.

It is the same if basses loaded ball hit to right field runner 1 scores runner 2 scores runner 3 gets tagged out going to 3 rd batter runner falls down in the box and cannot run to first and the defense throws over to 1st for the 3rd out NO RUNS SCORE.
Same pretense just different scenerio above. Does not matter if it is an appeal for missing 1st or the runner never got there he is forced out at first
Aug. 12, 2014
Garocket
Men's 55
152 posts
Sec. 5. ONE RUN SHALL BE SCORED each time a base runner legally touches first,
second, third and home bases before the third out of an inning, unless the third out is the result
of a force out or the batter-runner is out before reaching first base. Base runners may advance
and a run may score only on a legally batted ball, on a play, on an overthrow or on an error
resulting from plays that started with, and immediately follow the batted ball or when the
bases are full, so that runners are forced to move up, or advance, by reason of the batter being
awarded first base by the umpire in accordance with these rules.
24
Aug. 12, 2014
B.J.
53 posts
per the O/P by Garocket...below is a rules supplement from ASA...The last sentance explains that it doesnt matter when the infraction occured the out is when the appeal is made....so that makes it the 3rd out of the inning and per the rules no runs would score...ASA RULES SUPPLEMENT,1.Appeals.. J. Force Out. When an appeal is the third out and a force out, no runs shall score. The force is reinstated when a forced runner retreats toward the base first occupied and they may be put out if the defense tags the runner or the base to which they are forced. When the batter-runner is put out prior to reaching first base, all force outs are eliminated. On an appeal play, the force out is determined when the appeal is made, not when the infraction occurred
Aug. 12, 2014
jrhunch
92 posts
b.j and garocket i also went to usssa book and garocket is right.that umpire was truly on the ball.budleftfield i believe that this wasnt the intent of the rule but i spent alot of time checking for an exception and could not find one.the rule is cut and dry
Aug. 18, 2014
paul0784
Men's 60
128 posts
If the umpire made the out call at any base and it was a force out no runs can score. The deciding factor is that the 3rd out was a force out. No question in previous post once the out at first is recorded all runs are scratched. Good call by umpire.
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