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Discussion: NorCal Warriors bumped to Major Plus

Posted Discussion
July 24, 2014
Tim Millette
498 posts
NorCal Warriors bumped to Major Plus
I have been told that the NorCal Warriors have been bumped to Plus as of Tuesday.

I think this is an example of SSUSA trying to do the right thing in the difficult task of ranking local/regional teams in a national association.

Unfortunately, once again, I think 99% of the bumps should only be considered after the whole of the program has been evaluated at the same tourney...ie Worlds.

This years Warriors return many players from a team that did not dominate the Major worlds last year...they might??? have two new defensive players on their squad.

Like other examples in the past of teams being bumped...I believe it's impossible to evaluate a team when maybe 10% of their "in class" competition has played against them.

An established team like the Barons/Warriors have a track record at worlds (not dominate) that should make up the largest portion of any bump consideration.

I think SSUSA has tried to tread softly on bumps...but...with the Warriors bump I think it's kinda penalizing a team.....if the Warriors had just not taken that 8 hour drive to play in the Cal cup...they most likely would still be a Major team.

I'd take much consideration if I was SSUSA on bumping teams based on them actually supporting your program.

Once again...Winning two events in one season when a HUGE majority of the Major Division was not present does not give a fair evaluation of over all strength.
July 24, 2014
rightrj1
Men's 55
209 posts
Tim for once I have to agree with you...The rating system that SSUSA uses is very suspect IMO...George being the sole decision maker for theses bump ups as well as his computer analysis and NOT taking into account the competition that the Warriors played against IMO is vital in making such decisions.....

NO TEAM should ever get bumped in the middle of the season, NO MATTER HOW MANY tournaments they have won...This never takes place for the east coast teams, they always get moved after they compete in the Worlds, but it is what it is and along as the current system is in place, it will always be that way!

Bye the way, if they didn't Win Cal Cup, they would still be a major team, Unless the won the Western Nationals!
July 24, 2014
Mulewhipper
68 posts

Tim...all great points...I brought most of these items up when discussing this with SSUSA yesterday, but they fell on deaf ears.

Reasoning behind the bump was that we won our games by a total of almost 7 runs per game.
However, in bracket play we won by 1, 2 and 5 runs respectively.

I'm not going to harp on this, we will accept the punishment...er bump and we will continue to go out and battle as best we can with the roster we have.
You will hear nobody from our team bitching and moaning about this.

We will do the dance as they say...

Oh and the kicker...we got the notice one day after they cashed our check for the Western Nationals...


July 24, 2014
tattooball
620 posts
This never happens to east coast teams, that funny. There is a east coast team that should be AAA but they won a tourney that no one was at and they are now major+. They can't beat any major teams and have for 2 years lost to many AAA teams. I have played against them they are bad. They no longer play SSUSA. Last years worlds they lost every game.
July 24, 2014
swing for the fences
Men's 50
1004 posts
All Great points on this thread... First of all it's a great honor to join the 12 best or so in M+ SSUSA. I know we have been working towards this and now we here.

I think the best point in this thread is that it's wrong to move a team in the middle of the season, there should be some better criteria than what was used in our case, such as demolishing the other teams or adds of upper division players! Which we haven't done!

We played SK Knights won by more than 7 one seating game and beat them by 2 in the tourney round... Vandals we beat by 1 run in the tourney to go the championship game and 5 runs in the final... this is hardly killing anyone. Aftershock came with 4 starters missing from there team and gave 5 runs to everyone.

This Tourney in Hemet was so huge for 50 majors, there one not one post for two weeks about it after it was done... LOL







July 25, 2014
BigD1957
Men's 55
7 posts
SSUSA did the same thing to Cal Energy this year. We won one tournament in Las Vegas and were moved up curiously right after the deadline for registering for the Reno Tourney. Hey, we arent complaining about playing M+ but the timing of the move was interesting to say the least.
July 25, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1283 posts
Arizona Chain Link was bumped to Major Plus and won zero tournaments in 2014! Go figure.
July 25, 2014
Diputs
Men's 55
9 posts
Attempting to start a new 55 team and have been told we will have to start at M+
We have a coulple of ex 50 M+ who at 60 can no longer compete at that level, two guys who couldn't start on their 55 M team and the rest of us have played no higher than AAA and never won anything.
July 26, 2014
DoubleL10
Men's 65
833 posts
Dbax, Not speaking for SSUSA but I believe Chain Link got moved up because they finished 2nd out of 14 teams in the World Championships. They also finished 2nd out of 7 teams in the Southwest Championships and 2nd out of 10 teams in Reno.
July 26, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1283 posts
Yep Larry you are right. But the point is, it would be nice to win a World Championship. That is every teams goal. They build a quality line up, start having a winning season. Then half way through the year they get bumped up. This is not right. SSUSA what is the reasoning behind moving a team up during the middle of the year?
July 26, 2014
rightrj1
Men's 55
209 posts
The bump-up is based on a formula and the person making the decision very rarely shows up to tournaments and has a very bad attitude when you go through the appeals process,that's why the process won't change! Their attitude is, if you don't like my decision, then don't play SSUSA. This process has been around for years and is Bible in their humble opinion! Since there's not a player rating system in SSUSA, the reasoning for moving a NEW team up in the middle of the season, IMO just makes NO SENSE AT ALL, even if they win every tournament. So what if they dominate for 1 year! If their roster warrants a move up it should be done before the very 1st tourney, not after finishing 1st or 2nd in a tourney with more than 6 teams!
July 26, 2014
Dbax
Men's 60
1283 posts
Exactly Ron! SSUSA, what is the thinking behind moving teams in mid season?
July 26, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
read rule 13.1(3) page 75.
They 'only' 'rate' twice a year BUT reserve the right to do this at any time...
Also read the bottom RED priority post on this.
Might make it cleareeer...lol Like the rain in PHX.
July 27, 2014
TOKE9
7 posts
Hey Tim,
I assume that the team Tattoball is talking about is my team Sportscenter from Mass. I could understand making moves during the year if they were consistent and also pushed teams down like they move them up.
We are 0 and 10 against major plus teams including 0and 4 at last years worlds and yet we are required to stay at this level. I have appealed again to be moved down and would appreciate any input you can to Ssusa for help. I'm sure you realize that we are a level too high. Thanks
July 27, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
toke9
You can plead your case if you can back it up with stats (books kept or the like) log it all down and write a letter to them. That is more viable that on here which really is mute. It does work if you have the info and might also include notes form umpires to those games.
July 28, 2014
joel 1975
42 posts
you should want to play major plus then there will be more teams for that division.
July 28, 2014
TOKE9
7 posts
I have sent in all the scores for the three tourneys we played this year.see what happens , if we are not dropped down unfortunately my team will fold. We are the only Major plus team in New England so there is no other team to for most of us to go play for. I guess my boat will get more use. Lol
July 28, 2014
hitnrun5
31 posts
Rogue 60's was bumped to major plus after two tournaments. We have a 10 and 5 record, winning the SW Regional with a 4 and 2 record and going 6 and 3 in the Winter Worlds. The decision was based on 12 games, for some reason three games, all losses, did not count, and a fabricated run differential based on those 12 games. We hit 11 home runs and averaged under 20 runs a game in the 15 we played. Our appeal was denied because we only played two tournaments and SSUSA requires three for their appeal process, yet we were moved after two tournaments. Like the Warriors, we have played a total of 5 different teams in these two tournaments, not much to base a decision on. We too, will play out the season, as major plus, to the best of our ability.
July 28, 2014
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
hitrun5
I agree w\ you on the rerate after 2 as opposed to the three they have on the record for doing so . However they use a Philips driver with the escape goat addition to the rule 13.1(3) They 'only' 'rate' twice a year BUT reserve the right to do this at any time... in my book it isn't right. But then not all is right the last few years.
Your record really is a good one and perhaps justified depending the the score differences which is also supposed to be used.

TOKE9 Hope it works for your team. Being the only + team in the area really puts the screws to ya. Good luck. E-me: tait_ebay@yahoo.com
July 28, 2014
Tim Millette
498 posts
TOKE9, I think we played your team at ssusa worlds in the major division three years ago.

I understand how frustrating rclassing can be.

Our MTC 50 team was stuck in Plus for the first two years I played with them.

We lost all but one game against Plus teams one year and ssusa rightly reclassed us.

I think we all have to understand ssusa is trying to create as much parity as possible but....UNFORTUNATELY, that is not possible unless they can figure out a method to eliminate the Powerhouses in Plus that seem to always make it to late Sunday in every tourney.

Maybe your team...much like ours, is a tweener team....ie...strong in major but below average results in Plus.

I call that senior softball purgatory...a place where we have to play great and the same group of dynasty level seniors that collect all those senior rings in every age group they get to dominate have to play way below average for us to win.

Who knows....maybe ssusa will finally start to weaken the dominate teams with some player list restrictions....until then....senior softball will continue to have a small group of players that almost always seem to be playing in the final two rounds of the tourneys...

Either that or.....the tweener teams start to look at NSA, USSSA and whatever other association is starting to try to get into senior ball.

But...I think those other associations are a few years away from getting their acts together.
Aug. 12, 2014
Mulewhipper
68 posts
Interesting weekend at the Western Nationals in the Sacramento area.


Congratulations to Sommerville Softball for winning the 50's Major Plus division.
Great team and great guys.

I was proud of our Warrior team and I think we held our own out there and had some very good competitive games.

Looking forward to Las Vegas next month and the privilege of playing the top teams in Senior Softball.
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