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Online now: 2 members: TABLE SETTER 11, readytoplay; 75 anonymousDiscussion: Better bats or better marketing?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Oct. 31, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | Better bats or better marketing? Like many of you I can remember some real legends of slow pitch hitting absolute bombs and laser beams. Now since the 1.21 BPF is the max qualifying standard for senior bats how can the new models be better distance wise if they cannot exceed that 1.21? Lets face it, if the sweet spot has kept getting bigger on the bats as is generally claimed, wouldn't that sweet spot run from handle to end plug by now? My 2 cents is that aside from exceeding that 1.21 mark a little after breaking in the bat and with all other things being equal, durability is now the new marketing angle since performance wise they are constrained by the 1.21 (which is definately high enough) |
| Oct. 31, 2014 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | OZ40 - Yes to both. The fact a bat has 1.21 does not mean it is really there. Some bats push that number and some do not. 2 bats may hit the same ball 25' different. |
| Oct. 31, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | I understand you Crusher. My point is a bat performing at it's 1.21 peak and a "new" bat comes on the market and it too performs at the peak 1.21 number can it be that much better than the old bat or is it more the marketing that sells the bat?? |
| Nov. 1, 2014 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | It has been my opinion over the years that it is mainly what the batter is comfortable with and that the top line bats are fairly equal. You find a brand your comfortable with and you stay with it. For example I have always been a Worth person because of the thicker handle. Easton's are good bats but I have trouble with them because of the thin handle so I will hit better with a Worth than an Easton. Same with the Freak52. It is a good bat but because of the thin handle I don't as comfortable swinging that as I do my PST as a result I hit better with my PST. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 ChiPrimeMarty Men's 60 104 posts | Fred, have you ever considered adding extra layers of tape to a bat handle to make it the thickness you prefer? I like thicker handles too, and that works for me with thin-handled bats that otherwise feel good with my swing. The most important factors to me (as long as the bat has sufficient performance) are weight, balance, and feel upon contact. I can tell right off if a bat is too heavy or too light, but it takes a good number of cuts with a broken-in bat before I really know if it can be my gamer. Currently I'm swinging a 27oz Miken Big Cat, and until it was sufficiently broken in and the sound changed I was concerned I might have wasted my money. Now I like it. A lot. Before the Big Cat I bought a 26.5oz Combat Dirty R3 Loaded after reading some glowing reviews in this forum, but it simply doesn't have the right feel for me and I'm looking to sell it. During my first several years in Senior softball I swung only the single piece black Miken balanced bats, but they kept breaking so I've tried different brands and have gravitated towards endload (though I'm still swinging a Senior Miken). In my ASA park district leagues I swing a 27oz Combat Wanted, while some teammates are still swinging the old Miken Freak 98 I carry. I also have a DeMarini The One which I like, but I'm getting better results with the Wanted. Bottom line is, until you try a variety of bats you never know what you might be missing -- and handle thickness shouldn't be an issue (unless you like a thin handle and the bat is manufactured thick). |
| Nov. 1, 2014 stick8 1992 posts | OZ you are rapidly establishing yourself as the most cerebral posters on here!! Excellent topic for discussion. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | Chip: I have tried that. It just doesn't feel right. Your right about the weight and balance. The one thing I don't like about the Freak52 is the lighter end load than my PST. I wish it had more of an endload but I guess it is at the max allowed by ASA. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | Stick, to quote the late great #1 Stooge Moe Howard: "The vicissitudes I have encountered have elevated me to a lofty position". Now by virtue of quoting The 3 Stooges I hope I can dispel the notion of my being cerebral. Besides, Laurel & Hardy were head and shoulders above the Stooges! But for the record, I have been a Miken person but routinely go back and forth with handle thickness. It seems when I'm slumping if I change the handle thickness one way or the other I seem to hit a little better maybe it's just a psychosomatic thing....:-) |
| Nov. 1, 2014 cal50 Men's 50 328 posts | stick, I have to question your judgement on giving someone a compliment who obviously doesn't know his slapstick. Laurel & Hardy better than the Stooges? Come on. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 Omar Khayyam 1357 posts | Too soon to tell about OZ's intelligence, but he is absolutely right about Laurel & Hardy being funnier than the Stooges. Who said anything about slapstick? We're talking about humor…grins…laughter…belly laughs. I've watched Laurel and Hardy films over and over but never saw reason to watch a 3 Stooges film more than once. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | Easy there fellas' Stick was just dogging me a little with his "cerebral" comment. We've played with and against each other since the late 1970's going back to the old Softball City days in Detroit. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 stick8 1992 posts | FWIW, both Laurel & Hardy and the Stooges were a riot. I could watch both and laugh my rear end off!! Getting back to the subject Oz does make a valid point. Durability seems to be the prevalent issue on senior bats today. While players have their favorite bats it seems as if the most common denominator is bats not lasting. And with bats having no warranty it can get expensive to keep purchasing new bats. It goes without saying senior bats are not made for durability. Since they are all composed of thinner walls they are built for performance!! The new Dudley bats have been mentioned as having more durability. Time will certainly tell on that. The latest Miken has a one year warranty--unheard for senior bats!! Miken must be confident their bats will last to offer a warranty. Time will tell on that as well. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | OZ40 and Stick8........What team(s) did you guys play for during those Softball City days on 8 mile? |
| Nov. 2, 2014 Fabe Men's 65 456 posts | Aloha Sparky….good to see you on the Board! Hoping all is well with you n your wife…Aloha, Fabe |
| Nov. 2, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | Sparky, I played with SBC Slammers, Ace Envelope, Men in Black, Junk, 50 Core Junk & some games with Brother Lawrence Meats. I started out there I believe the year after the grass infields were removed and Little Caesar's wrapped up playing. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Fabe my good friend....As always, outstanding to hear from you.....Please send some of that island weather east to Indiana.......Wife & I are heading for a cruise to the Caribbean shortly. Still entertaining another trip to the islands and once finalized, will most assuredly let you know. Probably my final year in softball......Enjoyed the team I sponsored this year but the game itself (umpiring & leadership) has changed so much, i can no longer enjoy being a part of it. Still have your contact info and will talk to you soon! Perhaps you can shed some light for me and get some of my love for the game back. OZ40......Remember well the grass at SC and when it was removed. Was like playing on concrete....lolololol Played & Managed the Michigan Consolidated's A Majors club the "Hawks" and pitched for the "US" squad that play at SC and East Detroit Memorial. Remember seeing Ace, SBC and Men in Black.....If I remember right, pitched against SBC and got blasted. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | OZ40, I agree with your statement, "durability is now the new marketing angle". I've grown tired of my senior bats lasting 2-400 swings. I stopped using one brand and switched to Combat about eight years ago. I've now switched to another and am happy with the durability as well as the distance. |
| Nov. 3, 2014 stick8 1992 posts | Sparky I played with Oz on Men in Black and The Junk Team. I also played with TESC (Tom Everett Softball Club), Nagy's, White Lightning, Money and when they combined it was Money Lightning. Back then leagues were the big thing. I also played with Stroh's and Trailblazers that played in the Wednesday night major metro league before it ended. Yourself? |
| Nov. 3, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Stick8....... Played & Managed the Michigan Consolidated's A Majors club the "Hawks" and pitched for the "US" squad that play at SC and East Detroit Memorial. Remember seeing Ace, SBC and Men in Black.....If I remember right, pitched against SBC and got blasted. Played for the Little Caesars at East Detroit Memorial.......Was the Stroh's club that was in our league the one you played for? That Major Metro League was "kick-ass"......My M.C.G.C.O. "Hawks" club was made up of a bunch of the Major Metro players (had to be an employee of the American Natural, Mich, Wisconsin or Mich. Consoldated)........Hard core Softball back in those days and truly some fond memories! |
| Nov. 4, 2014 stick8 1992 posts | Sparky, yes I played for that stroh's team. It was in the mid 80's and my first introduction to big time ball. Never forget my first game, against Snyders. I'm leading off, nervous as hell!! The first pitch of the game the ump calls it flat and the old man went on a 20 minute tirade like I've never heard before. Anyone else that did that would have been tossed but not the old man. "Welcome to big time softball" is what I was told by our coach. Anyway we played the major metro at the city on Wednesdays and Liberty Park super B on Thursdays. The old Lutomski league had dried up so some of our guys hooked up as a pick up team at Oak Park on Tuesdays. Those were fun times !! A few still play senior ball but many have since stopped playing. If you played for Caesars you were amongst the best!! |
| Nov. 4, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Stick8....Those for sure, were the highlight years for slow-pitch. That Stroh's club was a good one also. Didn't like the beer however....lolololol Forgot all about Liberty Park and Oak Park. To add to your "ump call", I had a player teach me a couple of nasty phrases in Spanish like "Kiss my A**" and I thought it would be super cool the next time I went after an Umpire, I'd say that phrase in Spanish. The occasion came during a game at Softball City and I let him have. BIG PROBLEM that I did not know.....He was originally from Mexico and really let me have it in Spanish......I felt so stupid.....lololol Never kick me out of the game however! |
| Nov. 5, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Stick8 and OZ40..............Did either of you ever play in that annual pre-season double-elimination tourney held in early April sponsored by either the Free Press or the News (can't remember which) played at SC where you kept playing on consecutive weekends until you were eliminated? |
| Nov. 5, 2014 stick8 1992 posts | Sparky I understand about Stroh's beer, not the best of tastes. That was one of our mandates, we had to drink Strohs. Luckily for me the years I played Stroh's Signature came out and that was decent--and free!! I always thought those four letter words were only in English and understood by anyone? lol To your question that early April tournament at the city was the Free Press tournament. It was always meant to play on one weekend but as you know Michigan weather in early April is so unpredictable that many times that tournament was spread over several weekends. |
