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Online now: 5 members: Bump29, Mike Kinard, TABLE SETTER 11, dalberghetti, softball4b; 107 anonymousDiscussion: Legal/Illegal Use of Courtesy Runner?
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 1, 2014 SCUBA 83 posts | Legal/Illegal Use of Courtesy Runner? Batter gets a base hit and a fielder throws the ball past the catcher attempting to throw out a runner trying to score. The ball remains in play and is rolling around in foul territory during which time the 1st base coach touches and replaces the batter-runner who had just reached first base. Time still had not been called. What should the umpire do/call? I think I know the answer, but I'd like to hear from you. Also consider what happens if the ball eventually goes out of play. If it's legal to insert a courtesy runner before time has been called, then who gets to advance --- the batter-runner or the courtesy runner? Your comments, please. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 ju25 Men's 60 236 posts | I have never heard of a legal substitution while ball is in play. Unless courtesy runner started at home plate I would have to say it is an out. I have seen batters called out for passing the halfway line going to first while they had a coutesy runner, but I have never seen a courtesy runner come in while the ball is in play. Unless the league has special running rules ( overrunning any base etc.) |
| Nov. 1, 2014 B.J. 1105 posts | if the courtesy runner touched the base while ball was still in play and before the umpire called time he would be considered an illegal courtesy runner...here is the penalty....RULE 8.5(5) • COURTESY RUNNER OFFICIALLY IN THE GAME A courtesy runner is in the game when he touches the base. If a courtesy runner is determined illegal, he will be called out upon touching the base and no other courtesy runner is allowed. The original runner may not return as the runner. An illegal courtesy runner on base is committing a continuing violation and may be called out upon appeal at any time while on base or, if he scores, prior to the first pitch to the next batter. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 stick8 1991 posts | SCUBA based on your description I have an illegal courtesy runner, thus an out. Courtesy runners cannot be inserted until the play is over and it must be announced to the umpire. Conceivably this "courtesy" runner could take it upon himself to advance to second if the ball is still rolling around foul territory. If the throw from the outfield happens to go out of play other legal runners are awarded two bases from the time of the throw (in usssa it's the time of the pitch.)--the base your going to plus the next one. The illegal courtesy runner is still out and cannot be replaced. |
| Nov. 1, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Excellent assessment of the rule & subsequent play by both B.J. and Stick8...... |
| Nov. 1, 2014 Wendall J. Benboodleman 1 posts | SCUBA, I share the opinion of some of the above. Legal runner (batter/runner) abandons 1B to an illegal courtesy runner. Since the courtesy runner entered the game illegally (i.e. touched base before time was called and before he was acknowledged as a courtesy runner), he would be declared out. No other runner could be substituted for him. Your other ? about what if the ball went out of play. Since the batter/runner abandoned his base (1B), and the courtesy runner obtained 1B illegally as a courtesy runner and would be declared out, neither of these individuals would be advanced if the ball went out of play. Any other runners that might have been on base at the time the ball went out of bounds would be entitled to advance. WJB |
| Nov. 2, 2014 Softballer48 Men's 65 30 posts | SCUBA: I saw the play in question; and as you know the Umpire did make the correct call at that time! |
| Nov. 2, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | I don't know how closely SSUSSA rules parallel U-Trip rules but if the baserunning rules are the same the batter/runner is out at the point the coach touches him if the play is still live. That makes all the actions that transpired after the pinch runner took the base moot. |
| Nov. 2, 2014 B.J. 1105 posts | I wish we would stop posting about U-TRIP rules this site is for SSUSA RULES.....OZ40 a coach touching a runner before time is called does not necessarily mean that the runner is out....many times you see a runner beat out a base hit and then get congratulated by a fist bump or pat on the shoulder by the coach before time has been called....the rule is meant for a coach that has assisted a runner |
| Nov. 3, 2014 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Funny how they post USSSA rules and they do not even know the USSSA rule page 42 2015 USSSA Rule book L. When anyone other than another runner physically assists him while the ball is in play. It does not say touch it says assist. Big difference in touch and assist |
| Nov. 3, 2014 stick8 1991 posts | Yes there is a difference between a touch and an assist. I had a play last year where a runner was being waved home by the third base coach and the runner wiped out pushing off the base. His momentum carried him into and caused him to low bridge the coach. The runner then scampered back to third safely. Contrary to the other team arguing that is not an out. Now if the coach picked the runner up and pushed him toward home then I have an out. |
