Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 84 anonymousDiscussion: Suggestions for 2015
| Posted | Discussion |
| Nov. 16, 2014 JamesLG 420 posts | Suggestions for 2015 Hi All: Now that the season is over for most it is time to throw out suggestions for 2015. I enjoy this game and appreciate all the SSUSA does for us players but I think there is room for changes. 1. The courtesy runner rule is great but it is uses so much it takes too many minutes off the clock and shortens the game. If a runner can run from first to second you should not be able to put in a courtesy runner so he can go second to home. 2. The clock should not start running until the first batter is in the box. 3. No infield practice between innings and stop throwing around the horn after an out. Both of these take time off the clock. 4. I can't speak for the younger guys but in 60 and over ball there should never be a DBO. Anybody who can still hit it out over 60 years old should never be punished for it. 5. In the smaller tournaments it is common for upper teams to play lower rated teams. The upper team always plays by the lower team HR rule plus they give runs or an additional fielder. Give the lower team a choice of one of the three and not two of the three. 6. I am not a big fan of the 3-2 count but if it would help us play more 7 inning games I would say go for it. Thanks: James |
| Nov. 17, 2014 Webbie25 Men's 70 2414 posts | Hi James-right time of the year for this discussion. 1. I fully agree that courtesy runners are a problem. However, in my own situation with my knee replacement, I disagree with just that criteria being if you can make it there you can't get a runner. If I hit a ball off the wall, I could hobble to second, but really needed to get a runner the rest of the way. (OK-Obama and Congress take note-this is called COMPROMISE). I would suggest that once a defense is set for the next pitch, that you can not call time to insert a runner. And, no runners can be replaced at any time after the first pitch to the next batter. That runner must now finish running all of the way. It would only take a couple times with guys having to run because a runner was not ready to get teams to have the courtesy runners ready. 2. The 2 minute grace period to get your team on the field was put in to address this. It is incumbent on the teams to get on the field. It also works toward keeping games on time. If an umpire has to wait 4 or 5 minutes for teams to get ready after he is ready to go, over the course of 7 or 8 games that becomes a half hour. Personal team responsibility-if you want the full time allotted-have your team out there ready to go. 3.Totally agree with 3. 4.I would like to see more debate on the no DBO over 60. I really don't see all that many HR's in 60 M+ so it might work. I would suggest no DBO for Major Plus, and maybe Major, at all ages, but retain the DBO for AAA and AA. 5. This one does need debate as I also feel the advantage is too much. One suggestion might be that for the higher rated team, there are no DBO's after they reach the lower teams HR level. Make it a walk. I would say make it a walk until they reach their own HR level, but that is too much thinking on the field involved. I see all sorts of arguments happening. 5. 3-2 is not happening-see earlier posts. 6. There is one other thing I saw this year that I really liked and would like to see debated. I liked it and it would be for POOL GAMES ONLY. The visitors are given 1/2 run. There are no ties and no extra inning games. BUT, that 1/2 run does NOT count in seeding. 7. Major Plus gets 7 runs an inning. Supposedly the top hitters are there, and we really don't get a tremendous number of 7 inning games in. BUT, there are not a lot of M+ teams either. Would an extra 10 minutes for M+ only in BRACKET PLAY really set back things that far? The meeting is coming up-NOW is the time to get your 2 cents in-or commit to go to the meeting. You will be listened to if you go!!! |
| Nov. 17, 2014 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | You can forget all the others with Rule #3. That one is the biggest culprit in time wasted. You eliminate those items and you can play a game in an hour or less. |
| Nov. 17, 2014 Boiseballer 5 posts | In agreement with all except a partial revision to #3. Throwing the ball around the infield. That can be done LONG before the next old fart even steps into the batter's box. |
| Nov. 17, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | I have another suggestion: As an idea for ALL of the current Senior Softball Associations. In today's age of computer technology, what about using a venue like "YouTube" to record the various "field mechanics & on-field hand & verbal signals" used in a specific Senior Softball Association for the Umpires working that Association. It would be a valuable "tool" to get the vast majority of Umpires working the Senior-level on the "same page" for the correct "field mechanics & on-field hand & verbal signals" nation-wide or at the least, give an Umpire(s) the correct on-field procedures and/or mechanics to actually see in action. For the sake of the Great Game of Slow-Pitch Softball however, a project like this for its full effect, should have a "mandatory" attachment for "all" Umpires working that specific Association. Sparky |
| Nov. 17, 2014 playr25 15 posts | To the exception of #1. Courtesy runner shouldn't be allowed until the runner is on second. Most hits are singles. The team with a courtesy runner coming from the 3rd base side dugout. I think it would be less distance to jog to second base than it would to go to first base. LoL. |
| Nov. 17, 2014 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Might add getting out from behind the plate to make the calls as a TOOL. |
| Nov. 17, 2014 playr25 15 posts | Also don't like the 2 strike, the next one has to be fair rule. Especially for the bigger tournaments. I don't care what anyone says. This does not save time. |
| Nov. 17, 2014 garyheifner 649 posts | I disagree with some of the above. My competitive AAA played some majors this year. It's not just about HRs. Those guys killed the ball. Obviously a talent level far beyond ours. Without the "5" runs the games would have been more of a farce than they were. Do the major teams really enjoy beating lower teams by slaughter rules? By the way, you majors can practice hitting singles when you need them in big tournaments rather than huffing and puffing and hitting balls into the parking lot. It's beating a dead horse, but the 3-2 makes the games go faster. Hitters go up to hit. I pitched most of the games in Vegas for our team this year. Not a single batter in 5 straight games swung at the 1st pitch. Many took a second pitch. For those of you who claim the 3-2 doesn't matter, how come in every qualifier we played in this past season the TD used the 3-2?????? I had one ump ask me in Vegas why we don't use the 3-2. I said, dumb isn't it. He said, I agree and hopefully we can can get in 7 innings. Also, I can remember back in my younger days before the 3rd strike fair rule, batters intentionally fouling off 3 or 4 balls that were going to be close just to get the pitch they wanted. As to courtesy runners, we have guys who would not be playing without them. Of the things my team does really well, we know before most games who is running for who. Our pinch runners are usually heading out of the dugout as the ball is coming into the infield. If a guy is coming up to bat that will need a runner, we often have that runner coaching 1st base for a quick change. I will go along with, if a guy gets on base and needs a runner, it must be done right away. Once the next pitch is made, that guy should have to continue running-no sub. Also, although I live in Oswego, Illinois where it is 1 degree, I am sitting on the beach in Fort Meyers Fl by the cottage I am renting for a month. It is partly cloudy and 80 degrees. So, all the above doesn't really matter. |
| Nov. 18, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Taits......Excellent point! A YouTube program could be expanded to also demonstrate the proper field positioning for the "Base Umpire(s) and Plate Umpire for certain calls based upon the number of runners on base. If the "powers to be" especially those that carry the title of National/Regional U.I.C, want to enhance this great game, a program such as this should be considered. I would be more than happy to offer any assistance to get an "Umpire Quality Program" such as this underway. |
| Nov. 18, 2014 SSUSA Staff 3485 posts | For those interested in providing input for Rules Committee consideration, we welcome your input ... There are three ways to submit items for Agenda consideration ... [1] Attend the open Rules Committee Sessions at the National Convention in Tupelo, MS; [2] Send e-mail correspondence to info@seniorsoftball.com with "Rules Committee" in the subject line; and [3] Send written correspondence by regular mail to the "SSUSA Rules Committee" at 2701 K Street, Ste., 101A - Sacramento, CA 95816-5131... Message Board posting commentary is disregarded for Agenda consideration by the Rules Committee due to the generally anonymous posting environment and our inability to differentiate between registered SSUSA members and other non-affiliated posters ... Thanks! |
| Nov. 18, 2014 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Thank you for the information SSUSA Staff. The following was just sent to the Rules Committee for consideration: Dear Sir or Madam: As an idea for the SSUSA as well as with the other Senior Softball Associations, I would like to propose the following. In today's age of computer technology, what about using a venue like "YouTube" to record the various "field mechanics & on-field hand & verbal signals" used in a specific Senior Softball Association for the Umpires working that Association. It would be a valuable "tool" to get the vast majority of Umpires working the Senior-level on the "same page" for the correct "field mechanics & on-field hand & verbal signals" nation-wide or at the least, give an Umpire(s) the correct on-field procedures and/or mechanics to actually see in action. Development of a program like this, could be expanded to also demonstrate the proper field positioning for the "Base Umpire(s) and the Plate Umpire for certain calls they would entail based upon the number of runners on base. For the sake of the Great Game of Slow-Pitch Softball however, a project like this for its full effect should have a "mandatory" attachment for "all" Umpires working that specific association such with the SSUSA. If the "powers to be" especially those that carry the title of National/Regional U.I.C, want to enhance this great game, a program such as this should be considered. I would be more than happy to offer any assistance to get an "Umpire Quality Program" such as this underway. Sincerely, G.R. "Sparky" Mann (#41171 - SSUSA) Gregory R. Mann, Ph.D. { ret. } Oceanic Marine Biologist/Educator |
| Nov. 18, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I intend to send a email to info@seniorsoftball.com proposing that seeding ratings in a tournament be used in determining the home team in bracket play. Also, I would propose that the game clock be started only after the home plate umpire announces play ball AND the first batters enters the batter's box. My reason for this proposal was that in Las Vegas the clock was started while the infield was being dragged!! |
| Nov. 18, 2014 TexasTransplant Men's 70 516 posts | Not a rule change, but I would like to see someone develop a tool, possibly a website, where teams could post their tentative tournament schedules for the year, along with manager contact information. If we could look at a website and know, for example, that there were eight teams in our class going to, say, Kansas City, but only us and another team going to St Louis the following week, we could adjust our schedule accordingly (not picking on St Louis, one of my favorite cities, but just making an example). Too many times, with conflicting tournaments, it's something of a crap shoot knowing where the action is going to be, and you end up finding out, too late, that you're traveling 4-500 miles to play in a somewhat limited tournament. If I had more computer expertise, I would have a go at this. I suspect it would have to be done outside the auspices of the various organizations because of competing tournament schedules. It would need to be done early so that teams could contact each other to assure the level of commitment and coordinate changes. |
| Nov. 18, 2014 Fabe Men's 65 456 posts | Just for update reason, I did send an email to SSUSA office. Aloha, Fabe |
| Nov. 18, 2014 crusher Men's 75 524 posts | Great Tx TRansplant - That would be great, it is so disappointing to drive 8 hours and only have 3 teams. This puts the TD's in a bind but not like putting 45 seniors in a bind. Hope all U guys have a great 2015. James |
| Nov. 18, 2014 Bruster55 Men's 60 109 posts | Was a bit disappointed in Vegas on how the flips were called the farthest team gets to make the call.So being from AZ means we never got to make a call & never won a toss.We all know how important it is to have the hammer when teams are so evenly matched.We all pay the same entry fee so we should be treated the same. |
| Nov. 18, 2014 Dbax Men's 65 2100 posts | You've got to be kidding! It's 50-50. Doesn't matter who gets to make the call. Sheesh! |
| Nov. 19, 2014 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Staements like Brusters is why people think the seniors are bunch of spoiled babies. Dbax is right it is 50-50 regardless as to who calls it. I thought I had heard of everything, but to complain over who calls the coin flip!!! that takes the cake. |
| Nov. 19, 2014 rlspls1974 Men's 65 119 posts | Garocket: LMAO |
| Nov. 19, 2014 joel 1975 131 posts | I would rather have the other team make the call then when you go back to dugout you either say we got the hammer or the other guy called heads lets hit |
| Nov. 19, 2014 Mango Men's 50 159 posts | For the 50, 55 and possibly the 60 Major Plus- Get rid of the DBO and go back to the Dead Ball Walk after home runs are gone. There are too many big strong players in those age group/divisions. I saw too many pitchers get blasted this season. It’s only a matter of time before someone is very seriously injured. There is no reason to have the DBO in the Plus divisions. I encourage all Plus players that wish the rule changed to send an email to the rules committee at the address above in Dave’s post (SSUSA Post -info@seniorsoftball.com with "Rules Committee" in the subject line ) |
| Nov. 19, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | Coin Flip: How about one "paper-rock-scissors" round between managers to determine who calls the coin flip? (or as you Pennsylvania boys call it "1-2-3 shoot") :-) |
| Nov. 20, 2014 hurler 17 posts | mango's got a point if thos big guy's cant base hit what make's you think they can keep from hitting pitcher's. Make the HR"S after limit's walk's then our pitcher's will be safe again, Major plus is the only class that need's this rule. they already have some different rules than the rest of us. (can have two guy's out of there region) |
| Nov. 20, 2014 crump22 Men's 50 60 posts | Mango and all the Plus team, there is a Major Plus Only tournament for 2015, plan by another softball org. You will get a chance to hit all the homerun you want. |
| Nov. 20, 2014 papa t Men's 60 22 posts | with regards to homers...I have always liked the one up rule. Give the respected divisions their alloted homers, and then it goes one up after that. If you are a team that doesn't hit a bunch of homers...the other team can only hit one more than you. |
| Nov. 20, 2014 Tim Millette 615 posts | Don't listen to yet another catcher/ah/1B hitter crying about the dbo in Plus ball. The new rule made for a better game/kept the bracket closer to on time/and I didn't hear one complaint during a Plus tourney. I will agree with one post on this subject..if your 60+ they should. It be outs once you reach the limit. If your 65+ every ball hit over the fence should count as a home run. And...let the starting pitchers decide before every game whether they want to start with a 0-0 count of 1-1..If they don't agree..it's automatically 1-1. That way...any player that doesn't like the 1-1 count only has to lobby his own pitcher to not use it...now..at that time..I'd tell the guy crying about 1-1 to learn to be a starting pitcher. |
| Nov. 20, 2014 hurler 17 posts | at least you would have one more after your hr's are gone. I still believe if you are 60 and hit it over the fence it should be a hr. how about 3in AA 6 in AAA 9in major unlimited in major plus. Some guy's hit 500 balls a week or more so they are dialed in some of us don't hit 500 a year why punish them when they put in the work. |
| Nov. 20, 2014 hurler 17 posts | you could also do like usssa used to do if you hit one after your hr's are gone you either are out everytime you come up or are allowed a sub at least more people could play. Ive played with guy's with one swing after hr's were gone they knew they would sit for a base hitter to take there place. Everyone should learn to base hit |
| Nov. 20, 2014 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | The home runs rules are good the way they are. We got bumped to major plus this year (which is fine) but it will put us at a disadvantage if the home run rules are changed because we are more about defense and we can control the bats when needed. We didn't hit our HR limit much last year at major so I don't see us hitting it next year in plus. If you can just hit it over the boards at will, it doesn't allow our defense to come into play as much. It wouldn't seem fair to bump us because of being successful under one set of rules and then change the rules that allowed for us to succeed. As for the comments about more balls going middle when teams are out of HRs, I just never saw that this past year. It may be because we play a five man infield but it just never happened. I will send an email about the 1-1 count though. As an outfielder, it is frustrating when it's 100 degrees out and you watch each batter take so many pitches while your melting away. I'd rather play where you have to hack away. The coin flip comments are pretty silly though...who cares who calls it and I still haven't seen any data showing home team wins more than visitors. It's who cares all around on that one. Hope everyone enjoys their Thanksgiving! |
| Nov. 20, 2014 OZ40 549 posts | For the record, my coin flip post was intended to sound silly, that's why I put the smiley symbol at the conclusion. It doesn't matter if a coin lands heads up a million times in the row, it's still a 50/50 tails possibility on the next toss. (I do remember once at Rotunda Fields a coin landing on edge in their sandy infield thus the need for another flip.) |
| Nov. 21, 2014 JDub Men's 60 206 posts | Here's a Novel Idea . . . Get rid of these STOOOPID BATS ! ! ! Have Fun, Be Safe, Jeff White #7 AZ Elite 50M+ |
| Nov. 21, 2014 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | JDub - Right on with that idea. The HR rules could change a lot if we didn't use those bats. It's crazy in Vegas when you think you popped up and a ball still goes out. That's just not the way it is supposed to be. OZ40 - Sorry - not picking on you personally but there have been a few posts this year about coin flip issues and whether you should take home or visitors. I'm not concerned with us being home or visitors so I don't get wrapped up in the coin toss outcome. |
| Nov. 21, 2014 JRthree 2 posts | There's so many good points you guys make and I truly hope some of them are taken into consideration. Coming from someone who coaches high school baseball, referees city & YMCA basketball, and organizes local youth tourneys for both, I bring in a point of view that sees all sides of your points. Because I flip flop many times a year from director, offical, coach, & player, l have good insight to competitive decisions. This year was my first playing senior ball. (50 M+) My first impression was this is awesome, guys just wanting to have fun and it's great & good to be out here. After a few tourneys the newness wore off and I started noticing massive complaining. Some justified, some of it just tired grumpy old men wanting their way. Just my own oberservation. Now let's get to the tough part of telling you what you may or may not want to hear. 1. General Rules Rules are made for the masses. We may not like some of them, but the vast majority make sense. Rules decisions, and amending rules is a thankless job. Where one agrees, many disagree. If you're that upset, get involved in the committee's or at least attend. Life 101, you're never gonna change certain rules to suit your every need so stop being grumpy. (unless of course your a Congressman or Senator, which you can make most rules to benefit yourself) 2. 1-1 Count If any of you really think the 1-1 count WILL NOT speed the game then your either too set in your ways, you can't use the entire field, or you cant take the pressue of being a consistent hitter with 2 strikes. It's a hitters game, let's hit! 3. Starting the Game Clock When we go through the gates and enter the dugout we know we're about to play. When we see there's a pre-game Umpire / Coaches conference going on at the plate that should be our cue to preparie to play offense or defense. We're there to play guys, if we're not ready after the conferance and the clock has started, the blame shouldn't fall on the umpire for doing his job. 4. Courtesy Runners The amount of courtesy runners is out of control. I fully understand the need and have no problem with them because we all need a runner from time to time. The way they're currently being utilized can create a constant competitive advantage by eating up game time. I see a need for controlling the number of runners per inning (which would force coaches to use more strategy) and a point of disallowing a courtesy runner, after the next pitch is delivered. (This of course would exclude the removal of an injured player from the game and entering a sub.) 5. Home Runs The level of the athletes ability will determine his actions. Some can master hitting to all fields, others hit home runs, and some athletes can do both, while a percentage of athletes just cant control their bat and put the ball in specific area's. We've all played with guys who have one swing whether he's a backside hitter, an up the middle guy, or the dreaded teammate who can only swing for the fence, and is a liabilty when the HRs are gone and you need a hit. When it comes to the HR - THE #1 priority of the rules commitee should be to use common sense in their rulings of HRs to protect the pitcher as much as possible. (No, I'm not a pitcher) These bats are out of control and like it or not guys, they're here to stay simply because the majority of us like to feel that pop again. It's sad, but true, and proof the proof is in our bat bags. My HR suggestions: A. Arc limits should be max 10ft. The higher the arc, the more players utilize the middle. B. Going to a 1-1 count forces hitters be less selective. On average this would create less SOLID contact per game, and lower the amount of rocket shots compared to the regular count. It's definitely safer for the pitcher. C.( K.I.S.S) HR beyond the limit should be Dead Ball Walks in all divisions & ages and there's never a question. These are my observations guys and in closing I'll leave you with a thought. When my HS baseball players think Im working them too hard I remind them of this. I ask you to do the following ---work hard, use common sense, be safe, and above all, have fun! But when workouts get tough, or you don't like what's going or what your doing, it' simple. Quit whining OR just Quit, because your whining is cutting down on our fun factor! |
| Nov. 23, 2014 Mango Men's 50 159 posts | Crump 22 Not sure which tournament you are talking about with “unlimited” home runs. Is it the one in Rockford in August? Also, I would like to point out that I am not advocating “unlimited” home runs in the plus division. I would be happy with going back to a cap on homers then DBW. There is quite a difference between a ball hit over the fence for 4 bases and a ball hit over the fence for 1 base. If you stop and think about it-the DBW is quite limiting in terms of offensive production. |
| Nov. 24, 2014 bkb555 301 posts | I like the one up rule once limit is reached.....I also like DBO's for any HR's over the limit/one up rule..... we played a major team last year (we are AAA) and we got destroyed by both hits and walks for HR's after limit was reached...at least an out would have shortened a few innings as for 1-1 count, I have played both...I am not fan of 1-1 only because , your at bat can be decided by an umpire after one pitch...we all know there is supposed to be a height limit etc but say a pitcher throws the border line high pitch that the ump calls a strike....guess what the next pitch will be????.....now you will be forced to swing only because you have 2 on you and cannot trust the ump for the next pitch....if you go to a 1-1 count, then make 3 BALLS a walk...forget the 4 ball walk...THAT will speed up games courtesy runners should be limited to 1 or 2 per inning....forget about speeding up the game. it speeds up the team that puts the usually faster guy on the bases.....maybe put a limit on the number of times a same runner can be used in a game just a few thoughts on some of the bigger concerns in the game |
| Nov. 24, 2014 crump22 Men's 50 60 posts | Mango, yes , that the one. I don,t care what the homerun rule are,just don,t change them after the tournament start. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 pureevil 19 posts | very simple to help out the pitcher lets just make the mat bigger 24x36. |
| Nov. 27, 2014 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | The mat is large enough. If you want to help out the pitcher, then go to an unlimited arc and unlimited home runs for all. JMHO, Andy Smith, R & R Strokers 60 Major |
| Dec. 1, 2014 joel 1975 131 posts | STLO why don't you get them to change major plus to no home run's and ejection's for every ball over the fence then your defense will really shine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Dec. 1, 2014 B94 Men's 50 138 posts | I have to agree that going to the bigger mat 24"x36" helps the pitcher without seriously changing the game like an arc height change would do... |
| Dec. 1, 2014 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | Joel 1975. I have no problem with the HR limit as it exists. I just think that the rule needs to stay the same and anything over the limit is a DBO. I think it fair and reasonable to say the same rule that got us there is what should be played. |
| Dec. 1, 2014 Robo2 238 posts | Leave bats alone unless you want to go thru the same old "illegal bat issues". I understand that some guys still use cheater bats with these senior bats! Unlimited HRs will allow for quicker separation of the better teams; save time in games; and prevent hitting up the middle. Yes, I pitch and yes I got hit a couple of times this past year and it is no fun. For those of you who think it is easy to pitch, I suggest you try it before you comment on fielding. If tourney's supplied the bats then I care less what bat is used; but let's face facts... it's not going to happen. No matter what; SSUSA has done a great job keeping us interested as we get older. Happy Holidays to all. |
| Dec. 1, 2014 stick8 1991 posts | "I understand that some guys still use cheater bats with these senior bats!" How sad is it that some need to resort to using shaved senior bats? |
| Dec. 2, 2014 JDub Men's 60 206 posts | Here's another Novel Idea. Let's Switch to 14" and keep the STOOOPID BATS ! ! ! I remember having so much FUN Playing 14" back in the day, even trying to Steal 2nd and getting thrown out back at 1st cuz I didn't know the Rules. It was Hilarious, and everyone was having a Grand Ole Time Laughing at/with each other ! ! ! Happy Holidays, Jeff White #7 AZ Elite 50M+ ***DeMarini*** |
| Dec. 2, 2014 Robo2 238 posts | Lets face it. The bats are not going anywhere and if one gets new bats, the cost to the players is all over again and teams will not show up. One way to try the theory is to advertise a tournament using a certain bat type only and see how many teams come. HRs are fun. Bat limitations only invite cheater bats. I have played for 40+ years and one can see when a team hands off a bat from batter to batter. Having senior bats levels the field even though some players still alter an occasional bat. As far as running the bases; very few of us over 60 can call it running - at least not like we can remember. I too remember playing in a few local tournaments where it was for only fun and nobody cared about records. Now when we travel to tournaments it is more serious competition - even at our age. |
| Dec. 2, 2014 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Robo2, well put!! " Bat limitations only invite cheater bats. I have played for 40+ years and one can see when a team hands off a bat from batter to batter. Having senior bats levels the field even though some players still alter an occasional bat." |
