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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 59 anonymousDiscussion: The TOC
| Posted | Discussion |
| Dec. 27, 2014 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | The TOC Why is the Winter Worlds and the Winter Nationals a 2015 roster event when they are played in 2014 and the TOC is not a 2015 roster event and is the 2nd tournament played 2015.......... Just asking |
| Dec. 27, 2014 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | It's so that SSUSA can automatically move up a newly crowned champion to the next higher division, then be able to lower them back to where they were before winning the World's, and then after the TOC 60-70 days later, be able to move them back to the elevated status earned with the World's. Also, SSUSA does this as a test to see how many teams can get their last years team back together for one last tourney. Having at the end of the season would be too easy and not complicated enough for managers. |
| Dec. 27, 2014 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | Well I'm sorry that makes no sense to me....... Maybe im trying to over think this |
| Dec. 28, 2014 rlspls1974 Men's 65 119 posts | I'm with you 22...That's not logical. Maybe the staff will respond. |
| Dec. 28, 2014 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Pitcher and 1974, you are both correct!!! My reply made as much sense and was as logical as the current scheduling of these two tournaments in the 1st place. My answer was "tongue in cheek", intended to poke fun at an annual problem in our softball community. It falls on a "selective hearing" group. We faced the situation several times. Dropped players, added new guys, played in a qualifier plus 2-3 local tourneys; then, had to try to re-assemble last years team (who have gone on to join other teams) and tell the new guys they weren't part of this group! Not enough players now, so, try to find players from an older division or ones from a lower rating to fill in. This ends up not the same team that qualified, and to me, skirts the intention of having a Tournament of Champions in the 1st place The way TOC is scheduled with the Winter events just isn't a smooth venue for the teams qualifying. This subject has come up several years now. There doesn't seem to be any effort to correct it, for whatever reason. Put the TOC at the end of same calendar year you qualify in. Move the Winter events to the winter, same date as the current TOC if need be for contractual obligations. Sure would save a bunch of hassle. |
| Dec. 28, 2014 rlspls1974 Men's 65 119 posts | Ok Curveball understood. I was wondering if maybe you had too much Christmas cheer or something :) |
| Dec. 28, 2014 mad dog Men's 65 4191 posts | also curveball you forgot about the ones who win the winters in nov 2014 this year don't get to play their TOC till feb 2016....talk about having to get your players back together.....that is some wait right there...14 months plus.......i have also never understood why they do this...i have been given the explanation that there are contracts in place with the cities involved and can't be undone at this time.... |
| Dec. 28, 2014 curveball Men's 65 705 posts | Bob, that's another glitch in the dates of the tourneys. There are several other negatives also, enough to warrant getting it fixed. I think they are leaving a lot of money on the table leaving it like it is. There's quite a few more teams would attend given a calendar change I'm thinking...... Homer sends a Happy New Year Bob................... |
| Dec. 29, 2014 curty Men's 60 187 posts | i understand the points made here. our team has had the same basic players, with age being the mitigating factor, from 50's thru 55's & now 60's, & really enjoy playing @ T.O.C. when qualified. The experience ( with all that SSUSA offers) at this event has proved to be excellent! The dates are not as important to us as all of our guys look forward to it. If we qualify @ Winter Worlds it just makes planning easier! Do a lot of the teams out there change that much thru a season? here in New England there are not many players to choose from @ a given age/ level, so we play together for extended time periods. Wondering about other areas? |
| Dec. 29, 2014 tg69 393 posts | I was told that SSUSA was under contract with that venue and date for SEVERAL years to come.BAD BUSINESS DEAL....It would be nice to play it in Nov. or early Dec. My team qualified to go but wont because of the timing. |
| Dec. 29, 2014 SSUSA Staff 3485 posts | We'll go ahead and re-visit this annual exercise in TOC criticism once more this year [this is a re-print from February, 2014], and then it goes into the file folder marked "Things to Think About in 2021" ... • The TOC has a lower entry fee than any of the 20 or so TOC qualifiers where teams earn an invitation to participate ... We hope to break even on this event annually without resorting to an entry fee increase ... Some year we may actually luck out and break even! ... • We are not going to adversely impact the well-attended Winter Nationals (Ft. Myers) and Winter Worlds (Phoenix) during the first half of November by slotting the TOC in those dates ... Toss in Thanksgiving, and that takes care of November ... December is out because of the Christmas Season ... January makes no sense due to cold weather almost everywhere ... • We intend to fully honor our side of the 10-year contract with Central Florida Sports Marketing for the TOC to be held in early February in Polk County, FL, through 2021 ... But we do have about six more years to gather data and suggestions for potential change starting in 2022 ... |
| Dec. 29, 2014 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | To the SSUSA staff I guess my question about this goes like this.... We will be short handed for the TOC I don't se why it would be an issue to add 3 players to our roster as they will be playing with us in 2015 . The 3 I speak of have never played an inning of senior softball so they are totally new to the SSUSA program ...... Why is this an issue with SSUSA for us to add these players to our roster for the TOC as they will be fostered players for 2015.. as always thank you for your input |
| Dec. 29, 2014 garyheifner 649 posts | Pitcher 22 I feel your pain as my team has played short handed in this before. However. it is just not fair to add players to this. Your 3 might be new to the game but be great athletes/players and not be fair to the rest of the field. They will have the opportunity to help your team get back to the TOC next season. I know one of the staff's greatest challenges is to try and rate teams properly and keep the playing field as fair and even as possible in every age group and level of play. It is sad to say, but there are managers/teams that would load up for this if given the opportunity to add players and turn this really nice event into a farce. |
| Dec. 30, 2014 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | I curious to all because I am not sure how players/teams feel. I know we always looked forward to the November tournaments because they were the play ahead ones where we could bring players that would not be eligible until the next calendar year. This not only gave them an opportunity to play, but also was a chance to play with our possible "new" team. Now the TOC is all about the winners which means the bulk of the senior teams are not the winners. So for the very small percentage that are eligible, congratulations, but this discussion seems to ignore the bigger group that are not eligible and are playing with the hope of some day being able to be a TOC team. Remember these play ahead tournaments have been around much longer than the TOC and are very well attended and enjoyed. So is everyone commenting just the winners or one of the majority that are not? Thanks. |
| Dec. 30, 2014 curty Men's 60 187 posts | i consider this an elite event & am proud to be a part of it. It's more than just another tournament. i wonder why / how teams are shorthanded as each qualified team had to have had enough players to win a major tourney. I realize that players move during the off season, get hurt & even retire, but at the time that a team qualifies is when a commitment should be made. Our team earned a berth @ mid summer and immediately began making arrangements. We lost a player to mortality & will celebrate his life at the T.O.C. as a team. Curios as to circumstances that cause a team to become shorthanded? |
| Dec. 30, 2014 DCPete 409 posts | Curly; one of the biggest reasons this happens is because only the players on your team that actually played in your qualifying tournament are eligible for the TOC. So even if you had 20 guys on your roster but only 12 were at the tourney you won, those 12 would have to be your complete TOC roster. |
| Dec. 30, 2014 SSUSA Staff 3485 posts | Pitcher22 • The upcoming TOC is a 2014 Roster event. Players you may wish to add must have been otherwise eligible as to age, residency and team rating history, and participated in an SSUSA sanctioned event during the 2014 Season to be considered for roster addition for the TOC. For complete roster addition guidelines, please see the TOC Roster Considerations & Rules (PDF) white paper available from the download link on the RULES page of this web site. |
| Dec. 30, 2014 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | i guess to answer your question Gary I don't see where the caliber of player or players really matter we are a Major plus team . The reason we are shorthanded has to due with injury we concurred at the world tournament and work schedules I know it's hard to believe but some employers don't share the same love we have for the game and won't let guys off work ( sucks I know) but it is what it is.... I really wasn't trying to get in a pissing contest here was really just curious as to why the guys couldn't be added I got my answer and that's good . I can always count on the SSUSA staff to give me the direction to look in the rule book and I thank them for that ........ I hope we are able to go to the TOC because it's not a tournament you just go to you have to earn your way there....... I know it's a special tourney and hope to be a part of it ..... Again thanks for all the replies |
| Jan. 2, 2015 garyheifner 649 posts | pitcher 22 Didn't know you were M+ You guys are elite players with talent way above most of us. Maybe you have a case to appeal or get things changed considering the lack of M+ teams around the country for your classification. My team is AAA and 1 or 2 players added by another team for this could make a huge difference. |
| Jan. 4, 2015 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | Well due to the rules that SSUSA has put in place we will not be able to field our team to play in this tournament that we worked so hard to qualify for ..... I wish all the teams that will be able to play in it Good Luck . I personally think SSUSA needs to really sit down and take a long look at this tournament and make a few changes to it but from some of my previous attempts at discussing some things about Senior Softball that could be good for the game but the survey from 2 years ago wont change anything. I hope the 4 Teams that play Major and the 3 that play Major + have a great time playing each other in what should be one of the best Good Luck to all who play and Stay Safe |
| Jan. 5, 2015 neck10 714 posts | we were short one year had to pick up from next age group,we still won some game's don't know if we would have won (tournement) with all our guy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Jan. 6, 2015 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | The annual question! |
| Jan. 7, 2015 Pitcher22 Men's 50 39 posts | Please explain what the annual question is ?????? |
| Jan. 7, 2015 Jawood Men's 50 943 posts | The annual question is why the TOC is played in February and is a 2014 event event while the Winter Nationals was played in 2014 and was a 2015 event? Most believe it should be the other way around and it has been debated every year that I can remember. As stated above, it has to do with the SSUSA contract in Florida. Maybe it'll change in 6 years. |
| Jan. 7, 2015 Duke Men's 65 908 posts | Jawood's answer is the most accurate in this subject matter. Everyone knows that the timing of this tournament is backwards and should be switched with the Winter Worlds in Phoenix. This is also why so many teams need to add players for this event. As Jawood has said, SSUSA has a binding contract for the next 6 years, therefore, nothing is going to change for some time. Andy Smith, R & R Strokers, 60 Major |
