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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 83 anonymousDiscussion: Proposed changes in our local league
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| Feb. 28, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | Proposed changes in our local league We had our standard preseason league managers meeting a couple days ago and were hit with a proposed change to our division. A little background first, our league has four divisions. Divisions 1 and 2 have 4 teams each, division 3 has 6 teams(last year we had 7 but 1 team folded) and division 4 has 7 teams. Divisions 1 through 3 are all 50+ and grouped based on skill level, division 1 being the highest. Divisions 1 and 2 play crossover games with div. 1 teams spotting div. 2 teams 5 runs, division 3 plays amongst itself. Division 4 is 60+. The proposal is to division 3 which I play in and sponsor the team I play on. They gave us 2 proposals. 1 is to divide div. 3 into 2, 3 team groups and would be called 3a and 3b. The teams in 3a to give the teams in 3b 5 runs. Proposal 2 is the division plays even and at the end of the regular season divide into 2 divisions for 2 separate playoffs. This has caused a bit of controversy because in seasons past div 3 has always played even and over the last 3 years there have been 3 different champions. The real sticking point on this is 2 of the teams are legit 60+ teams with no under 60 members. Several team managers are of the opinion that the 2 60+ roster teams should move down to division 4(60+). Both these 60+ teams are being put into the 3b bracket and will receive 5 runs per game. One of these team won the division 3 championship in 2013 playing everyone even. Last year they had a tough year and finished 5th but are always competitive. The feedback from the league board is they feel these 2 teams are too strong for division 4(60+) and will crush everyone. I'm asking for opinions bacause I'm not really sure which way to go on this, my first instinct says these teams are 60+ and should be given 2 choices. 1, stay in division 3 and play even or 2, move to their appropriate age bracket. When I brought this up at the meeting the manager of one of these teams argued that they play in a lot of tournaments and want to stay in division 3 to play against stronger teams to keep their competitive edge for tournaments. They play 60+ AA. Their manager was the most vocal arguing in favor of the 5 run spot. Proposal 2 I just had to laugh about, who wants to be champion of a 3 team division? For the record my team has not won the league. Opinions? Any questions I can answer to help you form an opinion? |
| Feb. 28, 2015 Ho 301 posts | Here is what I would do. Make your league a draft league (you can divide it into an upper and lower division if you want), where ALL PLAYERS are drafted. There are NO "buddy" teams. Now if the two powerhouses do not want to do it that way..they probably enjoy beating up on the rest of the League teams and winning all the goodies- let them go play travel ball and wish them well and thank them for their participation in the past. If they don't like that idea then they all go in the draft. You have to decide if your league is for everyone to have a great time or for it to be a "feeding stop" fot a couple of teams that enjoy beating weaker competition and winning prizes but do not want to play travel ball against teams of equal ability. Ho |
| Feb. 28, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | Draft league will NEVER happen. There are teams that have been intact for a decade or longer. Quite a few of the teams in this league play tournament ball and have been pretty successful. My team will be playing tournaments this year as well. |
| Feb. 28, 2015 Shark Men's 60 99 posts | Pool....first off are their HR rules in your division ? Also how many games are played in your season ? Since you said their are 6 teams in your division 3, I am assuming you play each team at least twice or 3 times for a 10 or 15 game season. My proposal would be that the first time that teams play these 2 60+ teams, they play them even. The second time around, these 2 teams will receive the 5 run equalizer. Then the third and last time you play them, teams would play them either even or with the 5 run spot based upon their run differential from the first 2 rounds thru the division. Your league could determine what that run differential should be that causes them to spot teams the 5 runs or play them even during that final round of the league play. Playoffs would be another issue you can deal with based on how well the regular season rules worked showing the stength of these 2 60+ teams. Just my opinion. |
| Feb. 28, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | Shark, we play a 30 game season(barring rain outs). 3 homeruns per game in our division. |
| Feb. 28, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I agree with Ho. Our league has always been a draft league and it works really well. This prevents one team from loading up. There are probably 5 or 6 tournament teams with players from our league and it hasn't caused any problems. |
| Feb. 28, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | It sounds like a good idea, making it a draft league, but I don't see how it would ever happen. There are 22 teams total, some of these guys have been playing together since they were in their 20's. I find it interesting no one has opted for them to play in the 60+ division. We do play in a "age specific" league. |
| March 1, 2015 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Our senior league Fresno, has an open draft as well as tryouts for it. If you miss one of the two dates you in most cases need to wait until the next session starts and do that one. Been this was for at least 17 years. Trouble is it is imo a controlled board that runs it no matter what the players want in most cases. There are something like 21 voting members on it. They call it a rec league burt about half the players play travel ball. BOD is basically that way also. Rules conctabntky change, for the better or worse depending on ones point of view. We have HR rules that I believe are now t then an out. We have the run-through rule. Pick up players haver to fille rF 1sr base abds catcher, you on;t get those choices and froger which order but hit at bottom of or=der too. 2 CR's per inning. Managers do the draft and that is my letters as to order for picks... also players are rated by managers in tryouts and playing but then players aren't rated are they. We have 50, 58 and 63 teams. Good league other that control issues imo. Took something 2 years ti finally get a decent ball there last year. Tulare has simuliar one but afge used to start at 55 when I went down to play there. The draft works for the most part if the managers did their homework evaluating th eplayers during the season and try outs. Sponsors that play can also help in the draft process, It's a good league working with the draft. If they go about it draft wise it should worl our. Players will be split up in most cases but wa also have a couple provisions for that as we.. Good luck. |
| March 2, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | I appreciate all the responses thus far but a draft isn't an option. Does anyone think it would be to harsh to insist the 2 60+ teams either play even in the the 50+ division or play in their age appropriate division? Their entire argument rests on the fact that they don't feel competitive anymore in this division. They both have entire rosters of 60+ players and there is a 60+ division. |
| March 3, 2015 manny 41 5 posts | I am the other manager in question. First off, the proposal was made by the league and not by me. We are going to change over in November, 2015 and play in the Winter National's as a 65 AAA team. We have a competitive team, but are certainly at a disadvantage when playing against younger teams. I call it the "lack of legs conundrum". I thought that by suggesting to split when the playoff's come to a 3a and 3 b format would put an end to the discussion. No one would get any runs and that would solve the problem.Obviously, it has not. I read some of the suggestions to rectify this problem. One seems to be a draft league. That will never happen. We play together because we are friends. We will never capitulate to that. We can not play in division 4. We would have an unfair advantage playing in that division, even if we were to give runs,because some of the teams are in their 70's. I believe that the solution will come from "within our league". I suggest that Pool Shark try and work with the league to rectify this issue. It will be time better spent than on the SSUSA website, ( they do not travel)so why bring it up on the site? One last thought....He states that we do not feel competitive in this division. This conclusion is not based on fact. It is a product of "his mind" and not ours. Manny Costa Action Auto Parts 60's 60AA |
| March 4, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | If you read my original post here Manny, I state that I'm not sure which way to go on this and I was looking for suggestions. We will work with the league but searching for ideas and suggestions is a reasonable way to approach it don't you think? As for the comment "(they do not travel)so why bring it up on the site?". Whether we travel or not has no bearing where I look for advice does it? What better place to ask for advice for an issue in the senior softball league I play in than on a Senior softball website? BTW, you were at the meeting and we informed the league that we will indeed be traveling. As of right now we will be participating in the Ct. Masters, Northeast Championships and the Ocean State Classic and we're most likely going to Vegas for the World Masters Championships. I purposely did not name the league or the teams involved, it was just a search for advice. I was trying to keep it anonymous. George Comerford PGC Enterprises 50 AAA |
| March 4, 2015 deep14 102 posts | Use the draft, then have an open nite just for travel teams. |
| March 5, 2015 LP 317 posts | deep14 I think your solution is way to simple for what sounds like a very big ego issue league. |
| March 5, 2015 LP 317 posts | deep14 I think your solution is way to simple for what sounds like a very big ego issue league. |
| March 6, 2015 Capt Kirk 541 posts | Our league (SASSL) has no draft, the league has created a tournament team bracket to balance the league. We have (5) teams in the tournament bracket, and we have (7) teams in the rec bracket. We have a team rating committee and we do have an equalizer rule in place. This is our first year using this format. This will affect the 60s'+ teams only. Without a draft in place, the league has attempted to create a level playing field. Capt Kirk |
| March 7, 2015 PoollShark Men's 50 90 posts | That's a good idea Capt Kirk, I'd be interested to see how that works out. I see it's going to be the first year, maybe you can post up from time to time and let us know how it's working? I've learned over the years playing competitive pool that handicapping is very hard to get right. |
| March 10, 2015 Capt Kirk 541 posts | We had (4) teams in the 60's/65's league tournament bracket play double headers on Saturday. The results were: 1) one (1) team was 2-0 2) two (2) teams were 1-1 3) one (1) team was 0-2. 4) one (1) team did not play. All of the games were competitive. Capt Kirk |
| March 11, 2015 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Taits: Scott, lost your contact info. If you would be kind enough to send me your phone & email once again, it would be greatly appreciated. Sparky grm.phd@gmail.com |
