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Discussion: Other bat companies

Posted Discussion
Dec. 7, 2006
E. Ness
122 posts
Other bat companies
I hear that Easton, Worth, Combat, Mizuno, and maybe TPS are going to start making bats for senior only. Anyone else heard this rumor yet?
Dec. 7, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
I am aware of two compaines right now working on bats for seniors. It is going to be diffacult to battle the miken u-2. Miken has set the standard and to date combat is the only one to reach the summit that miken set so long ago.
Dec. 7, 2006
E. Ness
122 posts
I hear that Kevin. I heard Easton is bring back the orginal Synergy which would make that climb. Worth depends on Miken to make their bats so would Miken make a Worth U2? Mizuno has really never started that climb to the summit so I wonder about them.

In the end I think it will be a bat made by Miken or Combat. Now if Easton brings back the Orginal Synergy that would be the third player.
Dec. 7, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
I don't know if easton can make that bat, it is still approved by usssa for play but I think they had to stop making it because it was close to not passing. I think they would have continued to make it if they could. Also I think there technology is probably better now anyways.
Dec. 7, 2006
Dale
Men's 50
76 posts
Why do Seniors have to have a 'specially' made bat?
When and why did Seniors get a 'free pass' from the rules and regulations that have been established in other Associations?
Why don't we hit with the sticks that all the 'juniors' hit with?
Most of us play in leagues that only allow ASA approved bats. What's wrong with that?
A lot of the gripes on this board concern safety, yet we continue to want hot bats and even hotter balls.

The balls that are used in tournaments are for the most part the same for everyone that plays in that tournament, but the bats can be regulated. ASA has 'the bat list' that is most widely recognized. Why not make that list the only list that is recognized and put all the other bats away.
I'm sorry for sounding like an old 'putz', but would that not put an end to lots of the problems?

Dec. 7, 2006
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Dale, I don't know where your located, but Houston teams rarely play any ASA tournaments. Why would we want to follow their bat list? All of us in this area and where we play, are SPA and/or SSWC. Thats a lot of money invested in bats by all these men. You might consider that in your thinking. The U2's will all be broken eventually then we'll have to find something else. Til then we'd like to get our monies worth out of what we have. Hope that clears up some points for you.
GT
Houston, Tx
Christian Bros Auto
Dec. 7, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1007 posts
Dale I want to inject a little humor. It is a human fascination with all things new and better. Golf clubs remember what we used in the 70's, Music delivery remember the 8 track, Porn I kinda like Jenna Jameson over yesterdays actresses, (there I go thinking out loud). Barry Bonds or Henry Aaron maybe thats a bad comparison. How about Brian Uhrlacher and Jack Lambert remember Lambert only weighed 210LBs. Stuff gets better we want to use it.
Dec. 7, 2006
taits
Men's 65
4361 posts
There are still alot of original synergy's out there as well as the one preseeding it marked No Return instead of graphics.
Dec. 7, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
TAITS: The 1st batch of SYNERGYS, had a 2 bat warranty. The 2nd batch of SYN.', had only 1 return. The 2nd batch of SYNERGYS, were not any where as good as the 1st batch. The 2nd batch of SYN.'S, did not last as long as the 1st batch.

I have several friends that during this past yr, thought that they were buy' 1st batch of SYNERGY'S, for $250, each.
The bats that they got were dogs; did not last long; & were not the 1st batch, but, the 2nd or 3rd batch.

Not try' to bust u're bubble.. but, be careful. It has been over 2 yrs, since the 1st batch of SYNERGYS, were made.

Also, I have 2 'friends' that sell bats & both of them have told me that EASTON, has always made their 1st batch "HOT" & that the 2nd batch of bats are 'no where close, to the 1st batch.'

BEST of LUCK........The STONEMAN............
Dec. 8, 2006
taits
Men's 65
4361 posts
Stoneman: From what I was told by Jim Carry, the scx2, with yellow graphics was as you said put out in two runs, also correct that the 1st batch was hotter. But that there were those with "No Return" on them instead of graphics on them that were as hot or hotter than the first run. I will send you a pic of one that I have.
Dec. 8, 2006
E. Ness
122 posts
I don't know maybe it is just me but I like the idea that bat companies have now decided that senior softball is a market worth their investment. I am not sure the bats have to be as hot as a U2 but I like the idea of having our own bats.

The new senior Combat is right there with the U2 but might just enough behind to make everyone happen. I don't know much about the bat yet as I have not had a chance to hit mine but I will this weekend and we will hit it against my buddies U2.
Dec. 9, 2006
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
I bought a new original Combat(EL), it has no other numbers
other than BFP1.2 is that "senior" Combat? I have used
it for two BP, 150 hits each time--it was not "hot' out of the wrapper and it was not "hot" after 300 hits... I'm going to stay with my 585
Wes
Dec. 9, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
I hit the new combat. 60 swings into batting practice the bat broke. It was hot out of the wrapper but did not last as long as the u2. Dont know if i will buy another.
Dec. 9, 2006
pressguy33
39 posts
sjuhoops,

You broke a Senior Combat or just a combat?
The senior one is made for Anaconca Sports.
Dec. 10, 2006
Lefty
Men's 65
470 posts
Wes I don't know about your combat EL but I have a 27 EL and it hits the balls in the trees. Don't sell it until you try it some more. You might have got a bad one. You know the new bats they are all a little different in breaking in. Check and see if you have spider web tracks on the bat. If not it's not broken in yeath. I'll see you around for I'm playing with one of the 55AAA teams out of Memphis in 2007. Just my opinion on the bat. I love the way it swings. I plan on getting the new ultra II advance 28oz. Joe
Dec. 10, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
Sorry pressguy33 brand new senior combat
Dec. 10, 2006
pressguy33
39 posts
Let see if Thrumpball can address the broken bat issue.
Dec. 12, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
I really can't answer any thing about the bat because you know as much as I do, and that isn't much.
Where was it hit
what type of ball
temp etc.......
Dec. 12, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
hello trumpball. Iam Hank from Las vegas. I play 60 maj+ We hit every sat. morning. I just purchased the bat from Pro, He had a few swings on it and let me take a few. I liked the feel as i did the original dabomb. That was three weeks ago. Two weeks ago we hit on sat. it was approx, 50-55 degrees and no wind. During the first round of hitting i wanted to get it broken in. Unfortunately it cracked. I dont have any spider cracks. We used a variety of balls mostly 44 375's. There were some sharks, badens, dudleys and some worths. I decided to buy another and just received it in the mail yesterday. Anything you can do will be appreciated and thanks to pressguy33 for bringing this up.
Thank You
Hank Cluess
Kidz4ever
Dec. 13, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
Hank,
First off the selection of softballs may be 1 of your problems. If you look on ISA and NSA websites you will see that 2 of the companies you mentioned have have their ball banned from play and if you are hitting balls used in the LVSS tourny then you are hitting a ball that has been tested out at 525 comp. Don't assume the ball is 375 comp just because it is stamped that way.
on a 50-55 degree day balls will be much harder than what they are marked. Our .44/375 ball will be around 500 comp at 50 degrees, so a 525 at 50 degrees will be around 650 and no senior bat is designed to withstand the abuse that will occur with a ball like that.
If you have any more questions feel free to call me at 800-327-0074 ext 210
Dec. 13, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
Trumpball thanks for your reply. because the balls say 375 i shouldnt assume they are 375 and the 525 i guess i shouldnt assusme they are 525's. exactly what should we hit. no senior bat is designed to withstand the abuse of 60SWINGS. Sorry you wil no longer be getting my business
Hank Cluess
Dec. 13, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
Hank,
First of all I did not get your business to begin with.
But just because a tire is rated for 40,000 miles does not mean you are going to get that out of your set. There are many factors that come into play with tires bats and any other product that wears out eventually. I listed a few reasons on why your bat may have broken. I did list my phone number and you could have given me a call.
Thanks to all that do support us and the many friends I have met, through senior softball........
Dec. 13, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
trumpball. i did forget to mention that those 60 swings were over three saturdays. on the second swing two weeks ago the bat cracked. our other hitters were using u2's freaks and freak plus ect and these bats have hundreds of swings in them. I have been playing this game since 1962 and know about bats. I used to test bats for worth always the lightest they would make and they would listen to my input. I have only broken one u2 with less swings and they were nice enough to replace it for me. I was not looking for anything until the person pressguy33 and i dont know who he is put this thred on the board and i replied to it. i agree tires wear out but not after 60 miles. I also use a synergy+(this bat is 3-4 years old), green mayhem,585 maniac(two years old) and still hits well. I understand a few other guys from vegas have broken their combats also.

Hank Cluess






Dec. 14, 2006
DoubleL10
Men's 65
821 posts
Hank-
I tested the new Combat over many weeks during this past summer. A number of guys on our team used the bat during some "any bat" tournaments and it held up well. Only when some of the big, younger (50s) guys hit it did it finally break. The one we hit had about 3,000 swings on it per Jim Cary. Also, Mike Macenko swung the same bat we used when it was new, so it got some serious hacks!

I bought a 28 EL from Jim and probably have 300 swings on it now and it is opening up pretty well. I like it better than the U2 due to durability and I like the end load never having really used one in the past.

Hopefully Trumpball or Anaconda will come through for you since I know he's an upstanding guy. 60 swings is not enough to buy any bat even if it hits the ball 500 feet everytime!

Best of luck in the offseason and hope to see you next year on the circuit!

LL
Dec. 14, 2006
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
Hank, I am really surprised at this post. Trumpball invited you to call him and instead you put negative incorrect information for everyone to see.
If you had bought a warranted bat from Pro and broken it, there would be no warranty on it either. You bought a used bat with no warranty...period...no warranty. You were hitting in 50 degree weather...big mistake. You were hitting with Decker Sharks that came out of the LVSSA tourney. We were hitting those balls into the apartments across 5 lanes of traffic in 90 degree weather at that tournament. Those balls were marked ISA .44 375. The reason LVSSA had those balls is because Decker made illegal balls and the ISA refused to buy them and LVSSA bought some cheap balls. Yes, they were fun to hit. They were .50 525's and in 50 degree weather they are over 600 pounds. You said you also had Badens. They were improperly marked also. Whoever brought those balls did so because they are rockets.These two manufacturers have had issues with the associations. You chose balls that were fun to hit. Hitting the Senior Combat in 50 degree weather with those balls had to be a lot of fun, they were flying like golf balls. And what makes it worse, it was you hitting. I am one of your big fans. You are an incredibly gifted player and hit them out on any field.
You also mentioned that Miken had a bad one and gave you another bat. They did that to avoid this type of chatboard crap.
I call myself a "Guru" but let me tell you about Mr. Trumpball. He gets calls from almost all softball executives asking all kinds of softball questions. He is, in my opinion, the most knowledgeable softball man out there. He invited you to call him. You should feel honored that he gave out his number to you. You are not only a gifted player but one of the most knowledgeable players.
You also mentioned that other Vegas players had the same issue. I know who you are talking about and he has admitted abusing the bat trying to break it in quicker.
I know some of you who read this post will say I have ulterior motives. I have hesitated to post because of that issue. Yes, I sell this bat. I also sell Ultra II's and believe its the greatest bat ever made. The Anaconda Senior bat is just as good as the UII and I personally use the Combat. About 90% of my team uses the combat and guess what. I personally have broken 6 UII's this year and I, nor any of my teammates have ever broken a combat..zero...nada...not one. Its because we break the bat in properly with out hitting rediculous balls nor wet balls.
Hank, I admire you as a person and a player. You are just wrong on this post.
Jim Cary aka seniorsoftballguru
Dec. 14, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1007 posts
To Jim16 and Trumpball, I have two questions for the tw of you, What ball do you recommend in the temps described, an example would be at a driving range they make golf balls that don't go anywhere but still allow you to practice. If there aren't any maybe one should be made. A much dumber question can you duplicate the characteristics of your combat except distance and make it very durable to allow for practice with game type equipment. A practice bat so to speak that feels the same but doesn't perform the same. I know I like to practice with the equipment I am going to use in a game.








Dec. 14, 2006
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The last 2 Ultra 2's I had,
the first one cracked in 10 swings.
The second one in 70.

I have 2 Combats now.
One with maybe 350 swings on it
and it's the best bat I've swung since
the grey Ultra.
I wouldn't think of swinging it in any bp
at any time.

The other is a 29 oz EL I put a crack in
after about 300 swings.
I wanted to get it hotter and thought,
like with an old Freak I had,
I could hit bricks with it to break it in
and it wouldn't matter.
(I had a Freak I used to hit everything with
and never cracked it till well over 1000 swings)

I remember hearing a cracking sound
with one of the balls I hit that day
which I thought, "Good", it will make it better.
But the crack was from hitting a "heavy" wet ball
in 50 degree weather.
I should have known better.

I don't know Jim too well except from gossip
but I know Kevin and he's top shelf and no fool.

In a sense we all deserve a break for all the money
we've thrown in on bats in the last couple of years
but, for it all to fall on "the current leader in the game"
is understandably unfair though it does
go with the territory.





Dec. 14, 2006
Dbax
Men's 60
1269 posts
Just curious as to how you guys know how many swings are on your bats?
Dec. 14, 2006
sjuhoops
123 posts
hello larry, thanks for your input. All i did was post a thread saying my bat broke at around 60 swings. some were pro's but most were mine. we hit three consecutive saturdays. on the third sat on the second swing it broke. I understand all about the balls ect. I was trying to break it in not bread it. 60 swings at most. However i was not looking for a replacemetn am not looking for one. would not take one from this kevin. he can donated 200 dollare to american cancer society.
Jim carey. real quick. there is no negative or incorrect statement. the bat broke in 60 swings. thats all i said. some gentleman called pressman33 brought up the subject and trumpball responded to that. in turn i responded to trump[ball. He comes up with all sorts of balls mismarked not the right core ect. i never mentioned anything about a warrantee. I wasnt interested in trying to get a replacement. I was going to eat the money i paid. I have already received my new one. I will not say any more although you know i want to.
Hank Cluess
Dec. 14, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2650 posts
Dbax, "Just curious as to how you guys know how many swings are on your bats?"

I try to remember how many swings on the tee. After bp I remember how many rounds of hitting, like 4 rounds of 25 each. I admit that sometimes I forget so I just estimate.

I'm sure there are some that are obsessive about this and keep a log.
Dec. 14, 2006
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
I use my bats in batting practice. I have almost exactly 100 balls in my practice bag. I only use .44 375 synthetic balls. Synthetic because they will not pick up moisture like leather balls. I use SSWC and SPA balls because I know that they are what they are labeled. Leather balls may seem to be dry but they can pick up moisture and even grow mold under the covers. If there is any moisture I dry the balls off and keep them indoors. Synthetic balls will last longer but not fly as far when new. I only hit with one or two other players. We know almost exactly how many swings we take. We hit the balls and pick them up and hit again. These bats are made for these balls. If you roll the bat after each swing and break it in evenly it will last. Sure, there may be an anomoly once in a while. I can hit one of my combats and after 500 hits I can wipe it off and it will look almost new. Thats a fact.
Dec. 15, 2006
tattooball
617 posts
hello trumpball. Iam Hank from Las vegas. I play 60 maj+ We hit every sat. morning. I just purchased the bat from Pro, He had a few swings on it and let me take a few. I liked the feel as i did the original dabomb. That was three weeks ago. Two weeks ago we hit on sat. it was approx, 50-55 degrees and no wind. During the first round of hitting i wanted to get it broken in. Unfortunately it cracked. I dont have any spider cracks. We used a variety of balls mostly 44 375's. There were some sharks, badens, dudleys and some worths. I decided to buy another and just received it in the mail yesterday. Anything you can do will be appreciated and thanks to pressguy33 for bringing this up.
Thank You
Hank Cluess
Kidz4ever
Dec. 13
trumpball
Division:
Posts: 53
Hank,
First off the selection of softballs may be 1 of your problems. If you look on ISA and NSA websites you will see that 2 of the companies you mentioned have have their ball banned from play and if you are hitting balls used in the LVSS tourny then you are hitting a ball that has been tested out at 525 comp. Don't assume the ball is 375 comp just because it is stamped that way.
on a 50-55 degree day balls will be much harder than what they are marked. Our .44/375 ball will be around 500 comp at 50 degrees, so a 525 at 50 degrees will be around 650 and no senior bat is designed to withstand the abuse that will occur with a ball like that.
If you have any more questions feel free to call me at 800-327-0074 ext 210
Hank,
Reread both posts.
You asked why this may have occured, I stated the obvious.
You also stated that you wanted to know if there was anything I can do. Yeah I can do whatever I want to do and left you a contact number. I guess that is not enough. I probably should have got on a plane and flew out to meet you., but I am a little busy right now and can't do that.
As for softballs to hit with high performance bats. Trump makes a ball designed for high performance composite bats. They are BP-125, They are 49cor/125 comp coverless poly balls that will fly well and not harm you bats like a game ball will. They can be hit on wet fields because they are coverless. They will not fly as far as a game ball but will still hit very well. I have no problem hitting these in the 350 range. To hit these balls maximum distance you really need to spin the ball, practicing this will also make you a better hitter. I sent some of these to Steven Imlay to try so you can ask him what he thinks.
BP is just that, who cares how far you can hit a ball in BP. I find it ridiculous to break a game bat in BP just because you want to see how far you can hit a ball. My game bats are just that, and I let my bats go out as demos all of the time for people to try, ( I still have the same bat I had in Seattle) Many can tell you stories on that one, and it still is not broken. For the last three weekends it has been about 50 here and I have hit all three weekends testing new bats for next year, and I would never hit the combat original in those temps unless I was hitting the BP-125.
So I guess the moral to the story is . Common sense often makes sense.
Dec. 15, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2650 posts
Jim, you failed to mention the main reason for scratching the finish of a bat, sand or dirt on the ball. If you keep the balls clean your bat should look great for a long time.
As for the type of balls, I use Worth Gold Dots 44/375. They have the ProTac synthetic cover and hold up well. As for distance, forget it. They are the balls we use in our league and are the reason home runs for the Spring and Fall season totaled only 28 out of 2,931 at bats on 298' fences. One more thing to add, we are restricted to using ASA bats.
The good thing is that we lose very few at batting practice.
Dec. 15, 2006
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
trumpball i hit those bp balls your are talking with steve butler out here in dallas last nite.i would say they are the perfect bp ball.are they the same weight as a real ball?guys do yourself a favor if you want to hit your gamer for bp and get some of these balls for bp.they will not break in a bat(at least i don't think they will),but they will not break it either.
bob butler
Dec. 15, 2006
sliplayer
Men's 60
70 posts
I have hit the balls that Trumpball sent to me and they do work well. It's not as exciting as hitting regular balls but they will protect your bat. I did hit the balls off the tee and they did go out on a 300' park (Kevin said he has hit then 380') off the tee so they do go out just not as often. I have several discussions with Kevin about balls and believe that he is correct that we do hit harder balls than we should at times. I was with Hank when he broke the bat and was surprized by the bat breaking even with the described condidtions. I told Hank that Kevin was easy to work with understood what we are all doing out here. I believe that this strand got off on the wrong track which does happen. Hank and Kevin are is two knowledgable and highly repected softball players. I would recommend that Hank give Kevin a call and just talk with him. I would recommend the balls that Kevin mentioned above they do work and will save your bat and allow you to swing your preferred bat. They are a little slick and are harder to throw in batting practice especially for those of us that are not that good at pitching initially.
Steven Imlay
Dec. 15, 2006
E. Ness
122 posts
I have hit those softballs also and they do save your bat. The bad side to them is they will not break in you bat so if you are trying to get your senior Combat to the spider web stage these balls will not help it get there.

I am told that is when the bat is at its best. Softball guru mentioned this on SBF in the senior section. Now I decided to buy a Combat SCX3 uncensored 30 ounce EL with a warranty and use it as my winter bat. It has a return and it is the same barrel and weighting. This bat right now is on sale at Kellysultimatesports for $149.99.

So in a sense my bp bats is costing me $75 per bat and it is saving my gamers. I like to hit the type of softballs I will use in a game in bp. It gives me a sense of where I am at so for me this is a good use of money for a bat.

ENess
PS I am not trying to push anything for Kellys but he does have some great sales right now.
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