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Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 99 anonymousDiscussion: Smoky Mtn.
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| June 10, 2015 Graphite 56 posts | Smoky Mtn. With respect to the tradition Of the Smoky Mtn. Classic, I must say that Maryville should be ashamed of the fields. No maintenance between games for 3 days, no shade for dugouts, and I didn't see one rep from the Parks Dept. The umps were not up on senior rules and there were problems. No more 6 and out tournaments for us and I wouldn't go back there if it was 50 and out. |
| June 10, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Caswell Park in downtown Knoxville is probably the nicest (landscape wise) I've played at! |
| June 11, 2015 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | Graphite you are 100% correct the Maryville fields where terrible and the umpires did not have a clue. For the first time in my senior softball playing years, i was ejected from a game. What is so funny about this I was not even on the playing field. I was speaking to the tournament director and asking him on a ruling, behind home plate.On a previous game I asked home plate umpire, when a ball is hit in the infield doesn't the runner have to step on the orange bag, his reply it's not my call. I asked who's call is it, he told me to play ball. WOW!!!!! I think over all, senior softball needs to take a good look at the umpires they use, some of these guys are a bit to old to be umpiring. I am sure it's like driving a car, but sooner or later they take your driver's license away when you get to old. my 2 cents. p.s. the Caswell fields where very nice. |
| June 11, 2015 Graphite 56 posts | @Bruce..... You old people get to play at the nice parks!! |
| June 11, 2015 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Excellent viewpoint Grayhitter59. I have made the suggestion for the past 3-years to most of the SSUSA State & Regional U.I.C.s of using available technology such as “YouTube” to get “all” Umpires working Senior Ball onto the same page. To-date however, all you hear is their typical excuses and that is if you hear anything from them at all. When you go to some of these tourneys and see the umpire staff working, its almost like the TD or Tourney UIC pulled a Van up to a “retirement home” and grabbed anyone not using a “walker” or “cane” to work the weekend! |
| June 11, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Graphite, I have not been down there in years, but in my experience it was always that way. History and the experience were always the draw. Garyhitter59, I would hope that I am more approachable than the umpire that you describe. However if you made sure to position yourself in front of the backstop and bad mouth me, especially in more than your inside voice, I would probably hook you too. It happened to one of my best friends about 20 years ago; it was how we first met. He ended up umpiring because of me. Now in full disclosure, I threw my own husband and the other coach for verbally fighting. It was his only ejection too, and he deserved it. Unfortunately we rode in the same car that day, what a long car ride home. Of course the joke for years in tournaments was, "Careful; she threw out her own husband, and she loves him". |
| June 11, 2015 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | There are a few reasons you see older retired people doing Senior softball 1 A lot of the tournaments are played or started on weekdays. It would be hard to use the old guys on Thursday and Friday then say you are not good enough to work Saturday and Sundays so the TD has to have umps to cover all games if he sent them home on Saturday the next time he asked them to umpire they would say STICK IT 2 The younger umpires are not coming out and umpire Senior slowpitch games that last for about an hour and 20 minutes or more for $20 or $25 dollars when they can do girls fastpitch games with an hour 15 minute time limit for $36 dollars or a boys baseball game with an hour 40 minute time limit for $40.00. The old guys are not asked to do the baseball and fp because they are not as good or knowledgeable and are not asked to do it or you would not have them either. It a lot about the amount of money you can make on a weekend for the younger guys Slowpitch weekend $225 maybe Fastpitch weekend easily $300.00 Baseball easily $400.00 with the same amount or less time invested |
| June 11, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Grayhitter, I, too, inquired about that rule. A close play at first on a double play. I told the plate umpire the runner hit the white bag and his reply was that he could hit either one, new rule in ASA. It wasn't a close game in was in the 5th or 6th inning so we didn't argue. Our manager asked after the game and was informed that was incorrect. In another game on Saturday the opposing pitcher was releasing the ball when he was approximately 12 feet behind the rubber. I mentioned this to the base umpire and he said he would watch. Next inning was the same thing. My manager and I brought this to the attention of the plate umpire and he said the pitcher box lines were rubbed out and wasn't going to call it. Next inning I told the base umpire this and he said he couldn't tell how far their pitcher was behind the rubber. I said surely you can tell the difference between 6 and 12 feet! His reply was that our pitcher could do the same! My reply was "if the other team had been using a shaved bat would it be ok for us to use one?" End of conversation. Btw, heard of two other ejections in Maryville, one for fighting and one for "showing up the umpire". |
| June 11, 2015 Grimmie 17 posts | Well I played in this tourney for last 3 years. Played Major-plus this year, very good competition. We never had a problem at Sandy Springs, Fields were not bad played on lot worst believe me. Softball is not what it used to be, Umpires don't have a chance to please everyone I know I umpire USSSA in Louisville. Why don't u players complaining get you a job umpiring then u might not BITCH as much. See u in Dalton GA. |
| June 11, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | Thanks for your input Grimmie. As for me getting a job, no thanks! |
| June 11, 2015 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Back the truck up Grimmie........Although I am retired, I am a former A.S.A. State & National certified Umpire, a former U.S.S.S.A. State & National certified Umpire and former U.I.C. for 13-years for the Eaton Rapids Softball Association. Those statements made were from experience and not that of a player. |
| June 11, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | In our ASA clinics here, we are taught to treat the runner hitting the white as a live ball appeal, and believe me, I can call time before you can appeal it. I wish all associations would adopt this (OK, Dave, maybe this year I will put it in writing and try to sell). So it is on the defense to get it. I will try to see if I can copy the actual rule in here later (hopefully it confirms this). We use older umpires during the week because they are generally much better with senior rules and 12' arch. Some of them cannot handle more than 4 games any more. I disagree with the choice of the younger umpires. The park here only pays the umpires $2 more for the longer, senior games, and I have yet to have one of them complain about that. |
| June 11, 2015 Sparky.1 Men's 75 284 posts | Grimmie: And that is one of the 'big" problems with a vast majority of Umpires within the senior softball. To become a "quality" Umpire, you "never" to quote you Grimmie "have a chance to please everyone". You learn the "rules", "positioning" and "mechanics" and do the best job possible. Looking over your shoulder to see if you "pleased" anyone is absolute suicide as an umpire regardless what level of ball. |
| June 11, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Sparky.1, I would rather that they blame me for losing, dropped balls, hitting the wrong pitch, etc. because I am going sleep alright that night, and I would like for them to also. |
| June 12, 2015 STL0 Men's 60 230 posts | I played M+ at Sandy Springs as well and would agree with Grimmie. Fields were OK and I really did not have issues with the umpiring there. |
| June 12, 2015 BruceinGa Men's 70 3233 posts | I will compliment the umpires on their judgment of the arc of the pitches, most were very good. |
| June 12, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | Playing in the 50 major finals at Sandy Spring (we were moved to this division because there were no other 55 major plus teams for us to play) there were three general calls/technique which I had issues with--and all were in our favor. 1)We're in the field. Runner on first, 1 out. 2-2 count on the batter. He hits a dribbler in front of the plate. Couple of our guys scream out, "ump it hit off his foot, he's out". Home plate umpire says nothing. Base umpire runs in and calls the batter out for hitting it off his foot. Home plate ump never pointed or asked him for help. Bad technique--that's not the base umpires call--unless he askes for help its the home plate umpires call. 2) We're batting. Bases empty, 1 out. Our batter hits one down the right field line. Base umpire runs down the line as he should points fair. After the right fielder bobbled the ball the batter-runner goes for second. Throw comes in and it's a bang-bang play. The base umpire is standing half way out in right field and the home plate umpire is standing behind the plate. Base umpire calls him safe (in our favor) from right field. Bad technique--when the base umpire runs out into the outfield to make a call the home plate should run out and cover any calls in the infield-in this case second base. It becomes a one man situation. 3) On the same play as #2 the defensive team is vociferously arguing the fair call. Home plate umpire yells out "ask your catcher". Omg, NEVER do this!! Umpire should never use a player to back up a call. Granted this is a reflection of my USSSA training. If ISSA, SSUSA and ASA (these umps were ASA) are different then I'd be interested in reading their technique on this and the intent behind it. |
| June 12, 2015 T.C.Sr. Men's 60 24 posts | One out runners on 1st & 2nd. Low line drive hit to third baseman who goes down and makes the catch. Home plate umpire calls out. Both runners stop. The ball then rolls out of third base mans glove, base umpire yells safe. Runners try to advance but third base man picks up the ball steps on third and throws to second for a double play. Home plate umpire goes out to talk to base umpire and the first thing he says is I called it a catch. They talk and they still end up calling it a double play. Should the home plate umpire have stuck to his call of an out? As far as Grimmie umpiring in Louisville I have seen him in action and have never seen him make a bad call. lol(Sr.) |
| June 12, 2015 grayhitter59 Men's 60 345 posts | Nancy, I don't know if you have ever umpired a game that I have played (maybe). As for my ejection what I said was that I heard the conversation between the home plate and first base umpire and they both said they did not get a confirmation of a runner being inserted to the game. So, when after the play, behind the fence I told the Director what I heard and said if tells you different he is lying, thats what got me ejected, never profanity or loudness. I have played this game for while, I understand we all make mistakes, but when someone makes a mistakes and is called out on them, this should not mean that an umpire has the right to throw someone out of a game. If you blow the call just say that's my call and warn the player and if he continues then eject, but with out a warning, I am sorry not correct. |
| June 12, 2015 Graphite 56 posts | My officiating days started in 1968. A lot of baseball,football, and softball since then. In 2012 I was working the Dalton Worlds and it became evident that I was no longer quick enough to do the job pleasing to ME,so, I resigned from SPA to enjoy watching others play. If a person is in it for a check only,the game is diluted. I could still call it,but I will not stand in one spot to do it. |
| June 12, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Garyhitter59, not really judging, I am only commenting on what I read based on someone that needs to take control of the game. Without going into the details, one of the sweetest 50 year olds that I know got tossed at the coin flip in Bedford last weekend when he was totally correct. I keep telling him that he needs to come play with us seniors. Wish me luck. He would be an asset to any senior team, and he has not even hit with one of our bats yet. Actually one of my friends that I tried to get to play for years reminded me that he finally gave in when I told him that he needed to play with kids his own age. |
| June 14, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | T.C.Sr, only going by your description and not seeing the play I say ABSOLUTELY that home plate umpire should have stuck with his call!! Just curious, if you saw the play did the defensive team ask the home plate umpire for help? |
| June 14, 2015 garyheifner 649 posts | Graphite I feel your pain. We were in a qualifier a few years ago and had ASA umps. A call was made and I noted to the ump that it went against SSUSA rules. He said our rules were stupid and we would be playing his rules. I talked to the TD after the game about it, but nothing changed. My team enjoys this too much to have umps that don't care. The TDs have to get a pair and instruct the umps they hire. I would rather have the teams self umpire than have some umps that could care less. It would seem to me that with all the senior ball being offered nation wide for both the tour and local park districts, there is a lot of money to be made umping and they would want to learn our rules. |
| June 15, 2015 Mango Men's 50 159 posts | Our experience at the Smoky was great! A good strong competitive group in our division. The field we played on was big, 315 down the lines and 350 to center. Lots of homers, as you would expect in 50 Major Plus, but no cheap homers- you had to hit them to get them out of the park. Games ran on time and they had us out of there by noon on Sunday (very considerate for teams traveling). As in most Senior Ball umpiring was a mixed bag but mostly good. In five games we had two glaringly bad calls-one for us and one against us. That's fewer mistakes than we made that weekend. It was nice to play some of the top teams in the East. Overall an excellent tournament! Stick, I’m sorry I missed you there; sounds like you were on the next diamond. Mango |
| June 15, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | Mango, yes we were on the diamond next to you guys Sunday. We didn't get much of a break so I didn't get a chance to watch your game. You guys must have played well because there were some strong teams in the 50 major plus. Good luck to you guys the rest of 2015! |
| June 15, 2015 T.C.Sr. Men's 60 24 posts | Stick8, No the defensive team did not ask for help. Like I said catch was called an out by HPU runners stop including me the batter. Ball rolls out 3rd base mans glove, BU calls safe. mass confusion runners attempt to go again. Touch base at third throw to second double play. Actually we asked the umpires to talk after the double play called. I asked them if they thought the ball was dropped intentionally and the base umpire said the third base man could not react that quick. Like I said earlier first thing HPU told BU was that he called it a catch. We did not agree with the call, but went on and played without much of an argument. |
| June 15, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Garyhitter59, I have thought about this. I work with a very good umpire that throws anyone out that uses the word "you" in a sentence because he says that they just got personal and crossed the line. My automatic word is "BS" because you are talking about me. Now using "you" and "lying" in close proximity, possibly in a volume loud enough to hear, sorry, I have to side with the person making the ejection. I do not say that anything he did was right prior to that. It is ok; it happens some times that good guys go. Even Coachie was ejected once. You are welcome on my diamond any time. |
| June 16, 2015 stick8 1991 posts | T.C.Sr, based on what you posted it sounds like the hpu may have made the 'catch" call too quickly and the bu made the 'safe" call where he shouldn't have. The call on play, as you desribe it, is the home plate umpires call. It's good the umps got together after you asked them to. I don't know what they discussed but they should first have determined who's call it was. Since it's the hpu call they should have went with his call even though he may have made the call prematurely. The bu shouldn't have made any call whatsoever--that wasn't his call. It should have been 2 outs runners at first and second. |
| June 16, 2015 T.C.Sr. Men's 60 24 posts | Thanks stick8. That's exactly how we felt the outcome should have been. |
