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Online now: 2 members: Steehler7, TABLE SETTER 11; 230 anonymousDiscussion: courtesy runner
| Posted | Discussion |
| June 17, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | courtesy runner after a base hit the batter asked for a courtesy runner, the umpire called time and the runner left the base and entered the dugout, after a minute the offense figured out that they didn't have a courtesy runner available and sent the original runner back out, upon touching the bag we appealed that the runner had abandoned his bag and entered the dugout and that he should be called out, the umpire hesitated but did call him out, were we right that the runner should have waited until the courtesy runner came out and replaced him? |
| June 17, 2015 paul0784 Men's 60 218 posts | Going to take a shot at this one. Timeout had been called so he should have been able to go back to the bag with no out recorded? Why would he be called out maybe he fixed a shoe? LOL |
| June 17, 2015 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | This should be interesting. I would say he is out mainly because he abandon the base when he went into the dugout. Also I believe that once he calls for a courtesy runner he can't replace himself. |
| June 17, 2015 T.C.Sr. Men's 60 24 posts | Interesting. You would think that vacating the field would be justifiable reason to be called out. How could you be out of runners already? How many outs were there at the time? Open inning? |
| June 17, 2015 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Page 42 says this H. No runner may return to touch a missed base or one left illegally once he enters his dugout or bench area. Now you would have to decide did he leave the base illegal because he had no runners? if so then he would be out. That specifically is not in the rule book. |
| June 17, 2015 LeeLee50 140 posts | That's CHEAP No advantage was taken. |
| June 17, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | The Courtesy Runner rules are in Rulebook §8.5 (on pages 48-49). While this hypothetical is not specifically addressed, we are inclined to rule that there is no offense and the original runner may return to the base to run for himself. His departure was during a granted time out dead ball situation and no other eligible player took his position by touching the base. Accordingly, there was no courtesy runner substitution. An umpire would be looking really hard to find an out here. We believe this is a classic "senior moment" and "play on" is the more appropriate call. |
| June 17, 2015 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | Couldn't find in my SSUSA rule book from 2010 so went to the ASA rule book and Rule 8 sec U "when a runner abandons a base and goes to the dugout he is ruled out" |
| June 17, 2015 taits Men's 65 4548 posts | Fred S you loose a marble or something, the rules are under the red TOURNAMENTS link Still in the 2010 book as well that is all I have. really used coming apart book but most are the same. Pages 62-63. Happy reading to you. |
| June 17, 2015 LeeLee50 140 posts | Some guys got way to much idle time. |
| June 17, 2015 Tim Millette 615 posts | On our MTC Jayvee team we only have one CR.... Everyone else is just a pinch runner;-) |
| June 18, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | SSUSA STAFF, the granted time out call was an automatic call the umpires make after the play to insure runners stopped advancing, since you ruled that the runner should not be called out for abandoning his base and that he could return to the base what would be your ruling if the runner just beat out an infield hit the umpire made a safe call but in the heat of the moment the runner thought he was called out, after the play the umpire called time, again to insure runners would not advance and the batter/runnner turned and walked into the dugout, would you allow him to come back because there was timeout and a dead ball situation, if so when would you rule on a runner abondoning his base? I've actually seen the last one happen a few times over the years |
| June 18, 2015 Fred S Men's 85 297 posts | taits: I seen that but there is nothing there about a runner abandoning his base. |
| June 18, 2015 curty Men's 60 187 posts | same general situation:runner slides into second, time is called, he needs attention for torn pants, goes to dug out for repair. Out? While not quite the same, the rule should be interpreted the same. Coyrtesy runner is in the game when he touches the base. As this did not occur-- and ball was dead therefore no offense or defensive play can be made, NO CALL. |
| June 18, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3484 posts | 1jonsey ... As a practical matter, we only see the abandoned base scenario in a couple circumstances ... [1] a legal courtesy runner on base when his turn at bat comes up must abandon the base to bat; and [2] an illegal courtesy runner is removed (involuntarily abandons) from the base ... In both instances, a second courtesy runner is not permitted, and the out occurs for abandoning the base ... We suspect there may be other random hypothetical situations that can be crafted by some here, but they remain largely non-existent in the real world of play ... |
| June 18, 2015 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | I would have to agree with SSUSA Staff. When a rule is not specifically covered in the rule book go with common sense. There was no advantage /disadvantage in this scenario, so let the batter runner get back on the base and game continue. Trying to get an out in this situation is pretty lame. |
| June 18, 2015 LeeLee50 140 posts | I can't believe you are still arguing about the call. As it has already been stated their was no advantage received. |
| June 18, 2015 DCPete 409 posts | It's worse than lame; trying to get a cheap out called on a technicality when there's no intent to gain any advantage ruins the spirit of the game & those players/teams don't belong on the field . . . |
| June 19, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | who's arguing, a scenario was asked, and answered by STAFF and then i asked about another scenario i thought the purpose of this forum was to ask about scenarios and rules questions, as far as getting a cheap out, please, don't try to tell me that you guys NEVER tried to stretch a rule to your advantage |
| June 19, 2015 LeeLee50 140 posts | 1jonsey I disagree with you, in your opening statement you say we appealed to the umpire, so it was you and you got a cheap out and you want to continue to discuss it. It was a CHEAP out and you got away with it let it go. Just my straight forward honest opinion. 1jonsey 14 posts courtesy runner after a base hit the batter asked for a courtesy runner, the umpire called time and the runner left the base and entered the dugout, after a minute the offense figured out that they didn't have a courtesy runner available and sent the original runner back out, upon touching the bag we appealed that the runner had abandoned his bag and entered the dugout and that he should be called out, the umpire hesitated but did call him out, were we right that the runner should have waited until the courtesy runner came out and replaced him? To answer your question no you shouldn't have even appealed, same runner no advantage taken or given. JMSFHO |
| June 23, 2015 garyheifner 649 posts | Although my team often has trouble hitting, running, catching and throwing, we are a major + team in one area. We have a handle on who is going to run for who before the game starts. We always get the courtesy runner out there quickly. Wish other teams would plan ahead especially when the game in on a time limit. |
| June 24, 2015 obagain Men's 50 72 posts | I wish the rule was if you are going to use a courtesy runner, that player should be outside the dugout between the fence and base coach. When the batter reaches base the runner is already on the field and can replace the batter quickly. With time limits I have seen coaches milk time by deciding which runner to send out. |
