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Discussion: SENIOR NEEDS??? TIME TO GET OVER IT or THEM !!!

Posted Discussion
Dec. 18, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
SENIOR NEEDS??? TIME TO GET OVER IT or THEM !!!
SENIOR BATS:::: SENIOR RULES:::: All of this has & will continual to cause SENIORS problems. Most UMPS that I had the dipleasure to be around; have a Major dislike for our SENIOR RULES.

The SUMMIT, will not & has not stood up for SENIORS "needs." If, so, then why, do most UMPS have a hard on for SENIOR RULES?

ASA & ISA, will no longer aloud bats to have the rubber / plastic KNOBS, on any bat.

Maybe, it's just Vegas or me. But, I am sick & tired of the BAS.... UMPS, that do nothing but, bad mouth SENIORS. Many of these UMPS, state the following: 1) who do u Seniors think u are? 2) U use Hot Illegal Bats 3) Hit Hot Balls 4) Seniors, do not play defense 5) All Seniors, want to do is hit H. R. 6) Seniors, do not know the game & have not learned to hit behind the runner 7) ETC, ETC, ETC....

When will SENIOR PLAYERS, be treated w/ RESPECT? Just what is The SUMMIT, doing for SENIORS?? When will The SUMMIT, rain in or fire some of their UMPS??
ASA & ISA Umps, in this state, have several 'men' for a lack of a better word, that just Ruin fun for SENIORS...

The STONEMAN..................
Dec. 18, 2006
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I guess we run in different circles. I have never run into that type of attitude from Umps. All the umps I have run up against have been respectful of our Senior rules once they know what they are.

Based on your thread maybe the bad attitude is yours not the umps.
Dec. 18, 2006
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
FRED: U may be right.... But , ask some of the 50 & 55 M. Plus teams that have been "put in their place." How many times can an chUMP, walk off of a Senior game, & still be allowed to do Senior games? If, u leave an ISA Tournament, & this is u're 2nd time, why, r u still allowed to do ISA?

How many of the UMPs, in u're area have tried to sue u're Club or Tournaments? (( Our chUMPs, lost their law suite.))Some of our chUMPs, will not do LVSSA, but, will do ISA or SS-USA? This did effect our club & the teams that came to Vegas, 4 two yrsd.

How many of u're UMPs, have ever, stated something of the following: " u Seniors want spec.' rules, etc, just play the game..... Learn to hit behind the runner.... u Seniors, want spec.' rules .......? ETC.... Who, do u Senior think that u are..... ETC.

I do not know, if, u play much league. Why, r more leagues going to 1, H.R., & then it is an out, or an inning ending out? (( ISA, ASA, U-TRIP.)) In this town, we have 1 league night w/ 6 H. R.s & another Assoc.', w/ 1 night of 5 H.R.s. Another Assoc.' has the 1st three H. R. hitters, can hit as many; but, only the 1st three, all others r outs.

In 1986, H.R.s in E, were outs.....

Also, 1 & 1 count... if, u do not swing @ strike 2, u do not get 1 to waste.

End the 'Big Picture', why, get upset? Fred, ask some of the GSF, OL' A's, & other players, that have gotten trashed. Billy Steele, were r u??? Do u remember??? Lorinzi Park?

Thanks Fred..... The STONEMAN......
Dec. 19, 2006
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2734 posts
We don't have a problem with umpires in the southeast either.
I have read about the problems with the ISA umps out there and wondered what was the initial cause of this dissention.
Dec. 19, 2006
Airbosn
Men's 65
322 posts
A few years ago the Pensacola Senior Softball Organization decided to train both paid and volunteer umpires in senior rules. Prior to that we had very little problem, now we have none.
Dec. 19, 2006
Gripit&Ripit
31 posts
STONED-AGAIN: Seems the problem is all about you and you only. You want everything your way, why don't you take your bat and ball and go home. The umpires I have had in the 2006 tournaments I played, say senior ball is easy to umpire. They say when there's a problem it taken care professionally and without any problems

HEY STONEDAGAIN, GET OVER IT, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!!!!.... DID YOU EVER THINK THAT THE UMPIRES DON'T LIKE YOU AND WANNA MAKE YOUR LIFE AS MISERABLE AS POSSIBLE.

JUST SHUT-UP STONEDAGAIN, YOUR MAKEING IT HARD FOR EVERBODY ELSE TO ENJOY THE GAME!!!!!......
Dec. 19, 2006
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I have to admit I have never played or know anyone that has played ISA. I know players from our area and league that play 50 and 55 tournaments around the country and have never heard that complaint.

If it is confined to ISA then I would find some other tournaments to go to if possible.

We use ASA umps and it takes 2 or 3 weeks for the new ones to get adjusted to our Senior rules but none of them have ever given us any problems over them.

I will admit though we do have a couple that don't like the strike mat. They feel that they don't have anything to do using the mat instead of calling balls/strikes.
Dec. 19, 2006
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
424 posts
I have never encountered an umpire that was antagonistic about senior players or senior rules. Just the reverse, I find them to be almost universally supportive. This specifically includes the ISA umps at their World tournament.

Dec. 19, 2006
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
ok guys i do know that this was a vegas problem when they first started having tourneys there.we were told we could not use our u-2's b/c the umps would not allow it(in anotherwards they would not ump our games if allowed).i also heard the comments that stoneman has brought up.it was 2 yrs before we were allowed to use the u-2 in vegas.now i have not ever had any problems anywhere else ,as of yet,like this.i have heard in general conversation similar to it tho.
Dec. 19, 2006
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Letís donít forget that our illustrious Senior Softball umpires come from all walks of life just like us such as: bankers, insurance agents, business executives, computer programmers, factory workers, cab drivers, sanitation engineers, aerospace engineers, police officers, school teachers, fireman, postal workers, doctors, lawyers, judges, mini-mart market managers, doorman, club bouncers, dancers, actors, prize fighters, pharmaceutical reps, school bus drivers, disco DJís, Hooters gals, vacuum cleaner door to door salesmanís, and many other occupations just to numerous to mention them all here.

Theyíre human beings after all, and are almost like us but probably donít own a Miken U2 cause itís an evil bat and illegal in ASA, our defacto softball governing body. Some umps may even have played some ball during their lifetime, who knows? Many of our umps are retired and just want to stay active and pick up a few extra dollars to add to their paltry social security checks and 401Kís they rolled over to other like kind property and canít touch yet. While other fledgling umps are just out of high school and have dreamed for years about becoming an umpire and couldnít get a job anywhere else after graduation. So they went to ump Q-school and learned how to make some controversial calls while doing 8 games a day so itís a living @ $21 a game. This is why so many games end before the 7th as the ump has to drive across town to his/her next scheduled game.

Umpires all should have some basic qualities and characteristics like tolerance, dignity, rules knowledge, physical ability, good mechanics and have diplomatic control to be considered a good umpire. They should be capable of making critical decisions in the heat of the moment while maintaining their poise and not having a quick toss. They should be able to act as peacekeepers and negotiators, and have very thick skin so we can make our points to them and still stay in the game.

A good umpire is one who is consistently making the correct calls, is always in position, is vocal but yet can go unnoticed if he/she has proper control of the game. Letís donít let the umpire be the center of attention and a distraction to our Seniorís version of the game of slo-pitch softball and concentrate on what we need to do to play to the best of our abilities and have fun at the same time.

Bashbro1 (Web site in the making for the Pacific Northwest online in early Jan. í07)
Dec. 19, 2006
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
403 posts
I wonder what would happen if all the Umps doing senior games got paid more? $21. is not a lot of money for a game.
Dec. 19, 2006
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
First off I have also heard Umps say things about senior players as primadona's, should be home in the rocker and just laugh at some of the players and this wasn't done in a nice way but at the players expense.. when you call them on it the quickly say oh I did'nt mean it that way but the damage was done.. I agree respect should be given and then it will be given back! Most Umps have been good overall guys but everyone know the bad ones and maybe "We" as players should just send a message to the Umpire groups asking they be not allowed to ump our games as the compliants keep coming in on the same Umps over and over they should be removed or banned!
Also $21a game is not bad at all..better than working at a fast food place for $6 hr.
Dec. 19, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
Most of the umps that I have known are pertty decent, but there are a few a$$holes. I am sure all age groups have some of the A--holes doing their games.

BTW bashbro, let me know where the ex-hooters gals ump, I might like to see that game or even play with the umps. But being a senior I get to use my Ultra. :)
Dec. 19, 2006
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Well cpope, if youíve ever participated in the Huntsman World Senior Games in St. George, UT in the month of Oct., thereís a gal whoís a perennial umpire @ the games who we affectionately call ďElviraĒ cause she has all the attributes of Elvira Mistress of the Dark ranging from the long painted finger nails to her chest protector if you get my drift. And sheís an excellent umpire to boot. To be perfectly honest, I donít know if sheís ever worked at Hooters but Iím sure sheíd get hired on the spot.

To see a recent pic of her from bashbro1ís senior softball photoblog, just copy ní paste in the link provided below to your browser address line and then click on the ďfull sizeĒ option to see the big picture and enjoy. By the way I struck out with her.

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2910382260061458343oeMNvd
Dec. 19, 2006
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I play a variety of positions but catcher most of the time. I have the opportunity to have on going dialog with the umps. Over the last 5 years, I would say the majority of the umps have at least tried most hustle. The umps that I have the most negative vibs with are the ASA umps. I have had a few who have gone out of their way to start a negative discussion. Such as:

1. If I knew the U2 was being used, I wouldn't be here.
2. The pinch runner rule is the dumbist thing I have ever seen.
3. I don't like the split home plates. If your too old to slide, you shouldn't be playing.
4. Yea, I know your arc limits are 6-12 feet, but I call 6-10 feet.
5. I don't care if it is a senior rule, it's not in this game.
6. In a tourney championship game an ump at 1st was calling out about anyone if the 1st baseman caught the ball. Many bad calls. When I reminded him it was the championship game, he said it was only a senior game.

That being said, I also give every ump who hustles, win or lose, a good job comment after the game which happened in a majority of our games.

I think it is important that the tourney directors impress on the crews that this is not recreational softball. The senior players workout, practice and play at a very high level of effort for our respective ages. I would also like to add a special good job to the dozen or so women umps we had this past year. I found them to be very consistant and professional.

Dec. 19, 2006
isanevada1
2 posts
Stoneman is there anyone that lets you play anymore. You are mad at ISA because we enforced the rules in a flat belly tournament. ISA hasn't run a senior tournament in Las Vegas since I quit doing them years ago. The reason wasn't cause I didn't like the seniors or their rules. The reason was that Las Vegas gives no support to the local tournament directors and unless you have a few hundred volunteers you cannot do the tourney justice. Our fields here are some of the young guys. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS GAME HAS AN UMPIRE COST A TEAM THE GAME, THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME MAY HAVE RESTED ON THE LAST CALL . If you go back and look in your bat books you will see why you lost. I'm sure if you looked at your average you will see why no one picks you up besides your attitude. Do us all a favor travel to more tounaments and stay out of FLAT BELLY BALL SENIOR RULES DON'T APPLY THERE.

Dec. 19, 2006
isanevada1
2 posts
Stoneman is there anyone that lets you play anymore. You are mad at ISA because we enforced the rules in a flat belly tournament. ISA hasn't run a senior tournament in Las Vegas since I quit doing them years ago. The reason wasn't cause I didn't like the seniors or their rules. The reason was that Las Vegas gives no support to the local tournament directors and unless you have a few hundred volunteers you cannot do the tourney justice. Our fields here are some of the worst in the country. You are a classic example of what I preach to the young guys. NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF THIS GAME HAS AN UMPIRE COST A TEAM THE GAME, THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME MAY HAVE RESTED ON THE LAST CALL . If you go back and look in your stat books you will see why you lost. I'm sure if you looked at your average you will see why no one picks you up besides your attitude. Do us all a favor travel to more tournaments and stay out of FLAT BELLY BALL, SENIOR For some reason the first message got chopped up.
Dec. 20, 2006
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
bashbro, never been to the Huntsman games, I hear they hold the best tournament ever. Maybe I will make it soon.

I agree with your ump, our Hooters down here in Florida would hire her with top dollar pay. How can the players keep their mind on the ball game. :)

Merry Christmas and have a great 07

Charlie Pope
Suncoast Sunrays Major 60
Kayson Grill 50 AAA
Brix & Stix 50 Major
Dec. 20, 2006
tattooball
623 posts
Softball umpires need to only remember 2 things. They are the only professionals on the field and they need to know how to do their jobs.
Dec. 20, 2006
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
A good friend of mine is an umpire and he had a very good observation on umping softball games, he absolutely hated doing D& E and senior tournaments. He loved the upper young fellow tournaments. His reason the lower divisions and Seniors always had him out of position because he could not anticipate the bad plays. The uppers he could anticipate what they were going to do and they would execute the plays, no bad throws, no crazy baserunning, hitting cutoffs,etc.
Dec. 20, 2006
Robo2
229 posts
I play mostly on the east coast and the national torun for SPA and SSUSA. I have not found any reason to dislike the umps. As a matter of fact I rather think they are pretty good. I find them to be true gentlemen and that they appreciate the talent and effort they see on the field.
Dec. 20, 2006
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
424 posts
To expand on Lecak's point:

I would think one of the problems in umpiring Senior ball is that in any given game you have at least 20 guys on the field who think they're umpires, and 4 or 5 who probably really are or were. No end to the second guessing.

.
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