Message board »Message Board home »Sign-in or register to get started
Online now: 1 member: TABLE SETTER 11; 58 anonymousDiscussion: WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A FULL SWING
| Posted | Discussion |
| July 31, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A FULL SWING RULE 7.6 • BATTER IS OUT E When the batter bunts or chops the ball, or does not take a full swing when deliberately hitting a pitched ball. Here's my question I see many left handed batters who take partial swings toward 3rd base and then run like hell to try to beat out a hit and right handers that partially slap at the ball over 1st base. When swinging the bat starts forward but only travels about 1/3 of the way of a normal swing. How is this considered a legal "full swing"? Shouldn't a swing start from over your shoulder and end fully across your body? |
| July 31, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | 1jonsey ... The intent of the Rulebook §7.6 H. is is pretty clear: to prohibit the "bunt" or "chop" swing ... Reading anything more into any rule, including this one, is dangerous ... A "full swing" is probably whatever the umpire in that game determines to be enough to avoid the category of the specifically excluded bunt or chop ... The full swing doesn't necessarily have to be the "...rip your hamstrings out and hope you don't throw out your back..." hack at it ... It sort of falls into the same category of the old U.S. Supreme opinion by Justice Potter Stewart in the context of not being able to specifically define obscenity, "...But I know it when I see it..." We believe this is an umpire's judgment call, and not subject to appeal or protest ... |
| Aug. 1, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | thanks for the answer, and i understand the bunt and chop part of the rule, i dont understand how i am reading anything more into it the rule specifically says the batter is out if he doesn't take a full swing and then you give a generic answer that it's umpire judgement, i think it would be easier just to remove full swing and say the swing must have a forward motion |
| Aug. 2, 2015 SSUSA Staff 3483 posts | The term "full swing" is a subjective term, not easily defined, if at all ... The best illustration of the extremes would be comparing the "full swing" of an 80+ year old player with that of a 40-Masters Major+ player ... We have clarified for you the intent of Rulebook §7.6 E. above, but we will not be expanding the interpretation to include dictating, or limiting, the umpire's sole judgment in correctly applying the rule in the context of that intent ... |
| Aug. 2, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Note: If you see NA behind the plate, you had better at least turn your wrists. No guarantee on anyone else. |
| Aug. 2, 2015 Stretch14 Men's 50 202 posts | Get your money's worth. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | NA thank you, your answer is exactly what I'm getting at. Each umpire has a different idea of what a full swing is or what they feel comfortable calling. I believe years ago there was some type of wording about the batter breaking his wrists??? I see this in tournaments all the time batters slapping at the ball when fielders are playing somewhat deep, then if the fielder moves in they power the ball over their head. I think that is smart hitting, but when slapping at the ball they do not take a FULL SWING. The way the rule is written now is very direct and in no way does it imply that it should rely on umpire judgement. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | 1jonesy, my thinking comes from not only years of experience but numerous umpire clinics over the years. I actually love slap hitters, and, yes, they turn their wrists, full swing here. You have to remember that they are not squaring up and bunting the ball. Do not overthink as Dave said. It really does not come up that much except in some tournaments occasionally. I have never seen anyone called out, nor have I ever called anyone out, for chopping at the ball although I have seen some potential candidates for that call. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | Yes, again I agree with you over the years you have learned what to except/call in certain situations. Many umpires do not have the experience let alone attend a clinic, they only have a rule book to read. My O/P was more on how this rule is written it gives no gray area or does it mention umpire judgement, FULL SWING could be explained in the definition section of the rule book. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | The full swing can get an umpire in trouble. Here in the southeast we have what we call Judy hitters. They stop the bat half way thru the swing and ding it about 30 feet over either the 2nd base mans head or just over the 3rd base mans head. most times about 20 or 30 feet into the grass. If an umpire call them out for that you would have to call the National Guard in to break up the argument that would take place. Just kidding about the National Guard but I think you get where I am going with this. Some things you just have to leave up to the umpires judgement. If umpires would just call bunts and clear chopping down of the ball. and let the rest take care of itself. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Clean Up 68 posts | 1jonsey With all your questions about this Full Swing subject makes me wonder if you are one of those "Punch and Judy" hitters that Garocket mentions in his post above. Are you a "Punch & Judy" hitter? Or trying to be one? |
| Aug. 3, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | lol well i'm definitely not a clean up hitter, and I agree with Garocket on the judy hitters only we call them Gladis and yes at times I've done it, and consider it a legal hit. Garocket even defines it as stopping the bat 1/2 way thru your swing. So how is it a FULL SWING? |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Garocket, I think we are talking about the same thing. They turn their wrists but don't really get their arms into it. We call them slap hitters. Especially in an upper division tournament, you will hear the other team screaming about it, but I think it is a great offensive skill if you have the wheels to back it up. I did look at some of my other association rulebooks, and no other one describes what a full swing is. So SSUSA is consistent with this. I just know if you don't turn your wrists over, dead ball out on my field. Fortunately you seldom see it. Not sure that I have ever seen it happen in seniors. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Garocket Men's 55 259 posts | Nancy, it has nothing to do with wheels. What I am talking about the ball goes to the outfield before it hits the ground. The guys in my area will take a rope and make about a 20 ft circle about 30 ft behind the 2nd bas man and practice on stopping the bat but the ball will go about 15 ft into the air and drop in that circle. But they did not take a full swing. You still going to call that a dead ball out on your field. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Clean Up 68 posts | 1jonsey If you just want to be a "Punch & Judy" hitter. Buy yourself an old, broken down wooden, garage sale softball bat. Then you won't have to worry about 1/2 swings. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Clean Up 68 posts | I forgot to mention that when you get in the batters box with that wood bat, be sure to choke up on the bat as far up the bat as possible. If you can choke up 1/2 way up the bat do it! You can now just swing away! |
| Aug. 3, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | Nancy, you made my point again in 2 ways 1)I also looked into 2 differnt Assoc. rules under batter is out they both talked about batter is out for a bunt and chop but no mention of him being out for not taking a full swing. 2) you even admit at tournaments that teams complain about this. Garocket is right they have made a science out of it and practice it. So if you are going to let the 1/2 SWING happen then remove the FULL SWING part of the rule, then you will be CONSISTENT with other Assoc. rules |
| Aug. 3, 2015 1jonsey 48 posts | Clean Up....lmao have you been watching my hitting video??? |
| Aug. 3, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Garocket, no, that is not it. This is a complete turn of wrists and nothing else, usually hits infield or short outfield; so fast is good especially if the defense plays it right. I would have see your hitter to have an opinion on their swing. 1jonesy, maybe you should go to an umpire clinic. You can learn some common sense on situations. People fuss a lot more about other rules that they don't understand than this one. I know it has not come up in my last few thousand games, and I do tournaments on weekends. If you are not sure what a bunt is, you could probably see an example in a MLB game on TV. |
| Aug. 3, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | being an umpire and a player myself I see what both sides are saying....I umpire tournament ball all the time and yes I do see batters take less than full swings and drop the ball over the infield... or lefties will take small swings and hit the ball down the 3rd base line and beat the throw...i think both of these type of hits should be considered legal...it is a swing...just not a full swing...wording of rules is changed every year maybe it's time to look at this rule because it does say a batter should be called out for not taking a full swing....i know i would never want to have to make that call |
| Aug. 4, 2015 softball4b Men's 70 1248 posts | Maybe if the 3rd baseman was not playing left field he would cut it out. |
| Aug. 4, 2015 neck10 714 posts | the bat must hit the ball not ball hit the bat it's that simple.we were playing and catcher said our guy wasn't taking full swing said he bunted the ball went over the second baseman's head. |
| Aug. 4, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Neck10, I did not see that one. Ball stayed in the gate, but like you said no gates there. Your words on this subject pretty much nailed it very accurately though. OK, just to play devil's advocate, what if all of your guessing and speculation is a waste of time because a full swing is anything that is not a bunt or chop? Hmmm. |
| Aug. 4, 2015 B.J. 1105 posts | Neck, yes I agree the bat must hit the ball...but it does not have to hit the ball with a full swing...lol...the word in the rule that is a problem is "full"...not swing |
| Aug. 5, 2015 joel 1975 131 posts | if the bat is moving forward when it strikes the ball that's a legal swing,we can't get into which came first the chicken or the egg,if your that worried ask the ump before the game how he see's the rule & you should be all set. |
| Aug. 5, 2015 neck10 714 posts | why worry about NA she can't see if gates open or closed!!!!!!!!!!!!lmao |
| Aug. 6, 2015 neck10 714 posts | if the ball travels out of infield you will have a hard time selling that as a bunt to me,if im umping play ball legal hit.I hit a ball this week in young man's league didn't swing down on it just tried to go third base side ,just missed it went between pitcher & shortstop nobody had a play.never a question if I took a full swing .next time up shortstop played behind second third baseman played short hit a slow roller down thirdbase line hit bag went out of play didn't hit it hard just slaped a legal hit opposite side. |
| Aug. 6, 2015 Nancy Allen Men's 55 1438 posts | Hey, neck10, JG was your umpire. I was just an innocent director. That is my field though, and the ball goes out even when the gate is closed. I am not sure what Timmy did with your $3. |
