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Discussion: Why did Miken Change????

Posted Discussion
March 13, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Why did Miken Change????
The guy at the Miken trailer at the tourney of champs told me they haven't noticed any braking problems and were hitting 400' bombs with a 28 oz weight the day before at hitting practice. Yet, I keep seeing more and more comments on brakeage. Miken was making the number one senior bat and had a captive audience ready to buy more and more. Why would they be dumb enough to bring out an entirely new model with a terrible handle?

For you Miken executives reading this, you messed up. Admit it and start making the old U2-like tomorrow.
March 13, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Gsry I might be way off on this but I have to believe the new handle had something to do with the repainting going on at the young mens level. There would be no way to disguise that bat even with a professional paint job.
March 13, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I did hear your thought on the painting. Mu question is did they change the composite formula along with the new handle? Something is different.
March 13, 2007
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
It has to do with painting bats like Lecak says. Its the same bat with a new knob. Its cold in most parts of the country and more bats break this time of year. The bat hits the same. If you dont like the knob the Anaconda senior combat is an alternative. The UII has been the standard to measure other bats, its still the same bat but there are now two great bats. Take your pick
March 13, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
You know, thinking back it seems to me the the breakage problems began to happen when Worth got a hold of Miken. Up until then everybody seemed to be happy with the Miken bats. It could be a corporate decision = the more broken bats with no guarantee the more we can sell. Shortly after Worth took over even the old style U2's started breaking. I watched one break in the 1st game used, about the 6th swing off the bat on a warm day. I broke my old gamer U2 (pre Worth) but will probably add another Senior Combat to my bag rather than waste it on the new U2. I could have bought the commerative at TOC but thought it a waste of time. Even to have bought one commemrative to resell you'd almost feel like you were cheating the person it would be resold to given the durability problems and they are real based on the talk at tournaments and online.
March 13, 2007
jrhunch
92 posts
we had a miken last year that we broke after 3 swings.we replaced it for vegas and got 5 swings out of it .both bats were broken in bp with the temp. was 85 and 94.44-375 balls were used.i have an original ultra that is used by myself and our power hitter that is still going strong.i have broken 4 bats in 4 years in vegas but the original is still going stong.how is that possible?the problem i have with the new bat is the handle.the bat is legal in spa and ssusa so why the change?cheaters?why dont they change the pst .there were a bunch of shaved psts in manasses and the teams know who they are.why do we have to be concerned about the younger players cheating?that should be the younger teams problems.we have to pay for cards the young teams dont.we pay twice as much for tournies than the younger teams and we have to travel 2 and 3x the distance to play.now because they cheat we get a lousy product.no miken rep can convince me that the ultras that have been made in the last 2 years are the same as the years before.why get rid of the warranty?if combat didnt come out with a sturdier bat would miken have lowered their prices?i was a firm supporter of miken and considered them innovators and supporters of senior softball but now i have many doubts.sorry for the ramble.keep playing.viva the revolution viva senior softball everyone stay safe.#11 max spice
March 13, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
GENTLEMAN: I believe that K B, or K & B Sports, owns MIKEN & WORTH. When the U-2 came out, I saw N.I.W. U-2 bats, break in 3 swings. 2 yrs ago, I paid 4 the "last" U-2 warranty bats. Well, I did not get the warranties & all 3 bats broke in less than 100 swings.

Over the last fews yrs, I have seen U-2's, Freak's, Freak Plus, bats Break @ the point where ther handle & barrel is fastened.

Miken, does not care anymore. I brought 40 bats from a MIKEN REP, 4 bats were cracked & MIKEN, told me that I brought NON-WARRANTY BATS. Tuff S.... The female that I sent an E-mail too & called, just did not care.

This is the way MIKEN, is doing busniess today. Face the facts.... U-2's r game bats only.........PERIOD. U-2's, will last only about 50 to 100 swings. If, one gets more, sad to say, feel very, very lucky.

GOOD LUCK.... Buy the SENIOR COMBAT... The STONEMAN
March 14, 2007
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
Stoneman, Miken is a great company and I sell a lot of their bats. I've also have broken a lot of their bats . Soon I'm going to sell a big lot of worthless broken ones on ebay. There are guys who just want the parts. Performance and durabity are opposing concepts in softball. The onlybat that breaks that rules is the Anaconda senior combat. I am a large Miken dealer in UII's and it is still a great bat and seniors should own one. The ASA has been a factor in everything Miken does. ASA wanted Miken do to something to stop fraudsters from painting bats. ASA is apprciative.
A conclomerate K-2 is the parent company of Rawlings, worth and Miken. K-2 legislates Miken activities. Miken does what the boss wants. They make bats for worth and Rawlings. Miken is low dog on the corporate structure. Mikens knowledge is second to no one in the composite world.
I like and use both bats. I give a slight edge to the Senior Combat in both performance and durabity. The new UII is a compromise with the ASA to remain in their good graces. It amazing how ASA even has power over our senior game in that way.
March 14, 2007
CAT
148 posts
I feel that the U2 is still a good bat. I feel that the majority of senior players do not have problems with them cracking so quickly. I feel that the true problem of them cracking are with those few hitters that are still Blessed with having their bat speed. Thin flexible walls + excellent bat speed = cracked bat. ( At least in my opinion)
March 14, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
CAT: Your right. There are other bats out there you just have to open you eyes and get over this Miken obession.

Non Seniors have surveyed very well without the Ultra II.

Quit the whining and go out and play ball.
March 14, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Big fat EGO'S.
March 14, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
I have to believe without the UII and others you would be opening Pandoras box. Seniors would be no different than the young softball player and the altering and painting would approach what is going on in the young mans game. My opinion only. At least in the senior game you have a level playing field.
March 14, 2007
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Jim16 . I respect the fact that you have had a lot of experience with bats , but so have I . The Combat does have better durability than the Ultra . For that reason ,I want it to be as good as the Ultra in performance too . But it isn`t . I have compared them numerous times and the Combat does not hit the ball as far as the Ultra / Jb
March 14, 2007
koived
41 posts
Foothills,
like everything it is a prefrence, I hit the ball better and farther than the u-2 or u2-advanced. So it may not be the bat but the person swinging it. My u2 advanced broke in under 50 swings, my combat is still going strong with over 700 swings on it.
March 14, 2007
jrhunch
92 posts
i dont think it is whining but just a fact.the miken product is worse now than before.what happen to pride.when you make something make it the right way.as far as asa softball,there wouldnt be any lvssa,spa or ssusa softball if asa cared about senior softball.the asa bat list sucks you cant even hit a dimarinni fatboy.we as seniors should have more say in what we need.i am tired of all the politics of senior softball(cards,bracelets,cheats balls etc.)we pay assns. big money to handle issues but instead of enforcing their rules they rely on us to keep paying more money for ids and etc. so they dont have to.name me 1 innovation in the last year that was made to our game for the positive.einstien said it right we need some representation.viva senior softball everyone stay safe and keep hitting
March 14, 2007
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Koivid , the fact that different people will get different results from the same bat is a good point . It has been my observation , concerning guys on our team , that all of the power hitters are sticking with the Ultra ,after trying both heads up against each other . JB
March 14, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Lecak: There is as much bat doctoring among the Seniors as there is in the younger groups.
March 14, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Fred I'll take the bait. My theory is based on this, I have never once been approached or even seen a transaction where a senior was maiking arrangements to have a bat worked at a senior tournament. Granted my senior experience is light compared to my experience with open age tournies. I play in So Calif.and Vegas fairly often in young tournies and I see and hear it all the time between the young guys. I can't believe seniors are more discreet. It also can't just be a West coast thing either. And if you are correct then Senior ball has a massive problem on its hands. Miken should be applauded for taking a proactive step with their new design. THe makret place will determine whether they were correct or not.
March 14, 2007
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
I agree with Lecak. Seniors donít need to doctor bats. This is because they already get to use something hotter than anything used at the kid tournaments (including doctored bats)- the U2. If you outlaw the U2 then you would probably get lots of guys doctoring bats. Right now we already get to use something way hotter. Creates a level playing field.I may be naive butI find it hard to believe you could do anything to improve a U2 by doctoring it. Who needs anything hotter than that anyway?
March 14, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
STONEMAN- I have 585 and I like it very much-I'm told it has
the same PAT No. as the U2--Is it the same bat with and different color paint job or is it a different bat all togather???
Wes
March 14, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
WES: The first U-2s, had a concave end cap. The later U-2s, have a somewhat concave-than flat end cap.

My 585, has a diff' design on thats bats end cap. My 484, has 484, on its end cap. My 600 E.L. max 600 Series, has a concave-than flat end cap w/ a big wide M , stamped on that End Cap.

So, Wes, how or what is on your 585s' end cap? Cicles w/ 585 or what?

HOPE THAT THIS HELPS................ The STONEMAN
March 14, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Your assuming that all Senior leagues allow the Ultra II's. There are many leagues in the Northeast that don't allow the Ultra II's and there are a few teams that are noted for their painted Ultra's as Freak 98's. In fact a couple of tournaments I played in banned all Mikens for that reason. We had one team that tried to sneak in the Orginal Ultra into a tournament.
March 15, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
STONEMAN- My end cap is concaved/flat on bottom w/585
formed in the plactic. But the ??? is if it has the same Pat No. should it not be built, same spec.'s, as the U2 ???
Wes
March 16, 2007
House#33
2 posts
Gary, your post is very hypocritical since you use an Ultra 2.
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