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Discussion: RULES???

Posted Discussion
March 25, 2007
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
RULES???
I have thought this over several times in my head before I typed this and come up with several ways to ask this question, But I guess the best was is just to ask right out and see what answers I get.
I know tha all of softball has to many differant associations.
I know each association has to many tournaments.
I know now to qualifie for a Word/National tournament all you have to do is pay the money.
I know you use to have to win a quailifer to play in the Worlds/Nationals.
I know that softball now is all about the money.
I know I could go on forever but my question is,

How can a 60 Major team pick up players from a 50 Major Plus team that has already been knocked out of the same tournament on the same field on the same day? Granted the players in question were 60, but knowing a 60 player playing Major Plus ball has to be a darn good player. So to play down to Major ball after playing in the same tournament is just not right. Another team (the team that won the 60 Major division) who had players hurt requested to pick up additional players for this tournament was told (who told them? I was told, was "Chris" from CA, who ever Chris is) they had to pick up from the 65 year old level. The TD had no clue, The umps had no clue. Who knows the rules? SSUSA? Who does have a clue? Or am I right?
Is it ALL ABOUT THE MONEY?
Maybe I could get an answer just for the few that wants to know.
The is JMO.
March 26, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I agree, you shouldn't be allowed to do it. Having said that I will be doing that in one of my tournaments this year. Playing for a 70 team and a 75 team in the same tournament.

The 75 team will be my main team if there is a scheduling conflict.

But to say again, I shouldn't be allowed to do that.
March 26, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
This is from "Seniorsoftball" news, back in the winter.
The ??? was What roster can Super Major teams use??
I am on both 55 and 60 roster.... Can I just select one to play on????

Editor's Note: You can play on both 55 and 60 Major Plus teams. However, if it is the same tournament (such as the Tournament of Champions), you may run into scheduling conflicts, so we recommend you choose one team... however, it is your choice.
PS I'm playing on a 60+(I'm 67) and a 65+ team this year
Wes
March 26, 2007
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
I have questions about participation as well. Last season I was aware of players moving from team to team both within and between divisions. In the 50 division players would play on one Super Major Team one weekend, a couple of weeks later play on a different Super Major team, and then another weekend back to the original team. I also saw this happening with a player going from one team in Major to another in Super Major and then back again on different weekends.

I believe this to be good for Senior Softball as it increases the number of teams playing on any particular weekend. Some team wants to play and is missing a couple of guys- borrows a player or two and then can play. We used to do it all the time in regular softball. Iím for anything that gets more teams out there.

Iíve been told that you canít do this even though I saw it done last year. What exactly are the rules? Where are the rules? How do you get a copy of the Rules?


Mango
March 26, 2007
grumpy55
Men's 60
102 posts
I COULD BE MISTAKEN, BUT I BELIEVE THE RULE THIS YEAR( FOR EXAMPLE ) IS IF YOU PLAY WITH A 50 MAJOR TEAM YOU NEED TO BE RELEASED FROM THAT TEAM TO PLAY WITH ANOTHER TEAM IN THAT SAME DIVISION. ONCE YOU ARE RELEASED TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO PLAY WITH YOUR SECOND TEAM THE REST OF YEAR. YOU CAN NOT GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TEAM YOU STARTED WITH.
March 26, 2007
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
I think that it's o.k.for a player to play for several teams , but not in the same tournament . There may be a time when a team is forced to do this if one of their players is injured .I would hate to have to drop out of a tournament after playing bracket ball all day and then a player is injured.
March 26, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
I'm reading from "Official Senior Softball-USA Rulebook(2005-2006)Sectiom 5.1(5), page 20. It says"A player may be registered and play on two teams in different age brackets, as long as he is old enough for both brackets and they are within on skill division of each other." "For example, a 62 year-old player may play on a 60+ Major team and a 55+ AAA team during the same season.---------"The player may play on both teams during the same tournament."
"A player may br registered or play only on one team in each age division for each tournament he enter.
So you can not play on two teams in the same age group but you
can play down in age and skill if you qualfied for the
older age team.
Wes


March 26, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
cpope the rule you are looking for is on page 56,section9.4
SHORT-HANDED RULE- I think
Wes
March 26, 2007
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
charlie
We ran into about the same thing inthe SPA tourney in Montgomery. A Penacola 50 team came up short of players because one had to go home for work and an injury for another. They asked myself and RT to play after we played our game. The rule from Ridge that we could only if we was on there roster at the first of the tournament not added at the last minute. so we did not play from the 55 down into the 50 division.
Don
March 26, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
This is really getting confusing. When I checked into adding several 65s onto our 60 AA team for a world tourney, we were told it would be OK, but the 65 guys had to be AA players and couldn't be AAA 65s. So we didn't add any because the only guys we knew were 65AAA players.

I also believe that several years ago at the SPA nationals in Plano, a player could not play on two different teams, regardless of different age groups, in the same tourney.

Charlie pope's question obviously opens a situation that most players/managers really aren't sure of the answer.
March 27, 2007
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
Maybe the rules can be bent it the team is short of players, this team had 15 rostered players, nobody hurt and then picked up 3 50 Major Plus players to play with their 60 Major Team. All three players were 60 and had just been knocked out of the same tournament. BTW, they didn't win the tournament, but knowing the rule is what is important. The TD having to call CA for the rule just don't make any sence, nobody was there to answer then anyway.

I don't have a SSUSA rule book but our coach should have.

Last year I personally talk to Ridge Hooks (SPA) and wanted to play with a 50 AAA team (Kayson Grill) and also a 60 Major team (Suncoast Sunrays) at differant tournaments when one ot the other team did not play.
I big NO was what I got. Didn't like it but it was a rule.

The SSUSA TD at this touyrnament had no clue what the rule was.

PLaying on 2 teams is fine to me as long as it is noty in the same tournament, but they should have to stay in the same playing level, ake: Major can't play down to AAA and Major Plus can't play down. If you play up one level then you should be stuck at that level, because you can't play down.

Gary19 said it correct. why can't it be "Rostered Players Only"

I am only 60 so I am sure I will be retired before Senior Softball falls apart. It's a shame this game we all love has turned to a MONEY GAME.

March 27, 2007
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
419 posts
Charlie,

I also ran into that SPA rule last year when trying to play 55AA when my 60AAA team wasn't playing. I looked at the SPA website yesterday and it looks as if they have changed the rule this year, allowing you to play at a lower skill level in the younger division. The examples aren't to clearly written, but it appears that you can now play down a skill level when playing in a younger age group. It also appears that you can play with teams in two age groups in the same tournament as long as the schedules don't conflict.

SPA is doing something interesting here in our area this year. Several of the early tournaments have 50's & 55's playing on different weekends than the 60's & 65's. This weekend for example, 60's are playing in Irving, TX. 55's are playing in Mustang, OK. 60's will play in Mustang in two weeks.

This opens up some possibilities for those of us who like to play lots of ball. One thing I don't understand though, is why they still start the 60's on Friday.
March 27, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4356 posts
Food for thought on Rule Books:
Need to be specific and direct. If they are not, it leaves them open for interpretation and an open can of worms. Like an instruction manual, if youíre missing a screw, youíre screwed & it falls apart.
They need to be fully addressed, hopefully.
Maybe something like this:
All below for one player at age 66.
Youíre rostered on a 60ís major team, may you play up level wise, but not down in the same age bracket.
You may play at same or one level down per each different younger age bracket, 55ís, 50ís, because of age difference.
May play 55ís Major & or Major Plus, but not 55ís AAA and or AA.
Playing 50ís, may play MP, M, AAA, but not AA.
Two teams maximum in same tournament, but they have to be different AGE brackets in accordance with above restrictions.
You are responsible to your own game time appearance on your team(s). If there is a conflict, you will need to make a choice.
If caught jumping teams at any time within an bracket or at an incorrect level of play, your team forfeits all games played or due to come.

All this extra writing of rules may be taxing, but in the long run it should alleviate a lot of questions and or problems on the field, before, during or after a tournament as if happening here. A lot of time is spent putting the rules together, why rush them.
My $ 00.02
March 27, 2007
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
Cpope - I agree with you. The tournament directors I have come in contact with in my brief stint in Senior softball have no clue about the rules. The rules change by the day and by the game. These include how many homeruns are allowed(5 one game, 7 the next, then back to 5 the following day). Whether or not all runners advance one base on singles over the fence or have to be forced (again I've had it change from game to game). Equalization rules for playing teams down one level seem to change from game to game within the same tournament. Again the tournament directors have no clue.

I believe it is our responsibility as well to know the rules. So I'll ask again. Does anyone know where you get a Senior Softball Rule Book?

Thanks,
Mango
March 28, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
You can get a SSUSA rule book right from SSUSA. Call the number on the home page.

I am not sure if the 2007's are ready yet. I order 3 each year for my teams.

The other org you can print them off their web sites except for ASA I believe.
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