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Discussion: Speeding up the game

Posted Discussion
June 7, 2007
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
Speeding up the game
There is way too much wasted time during our games. I would suggest to extend the mat around home plate 6" on both sides and in back. There are way too many walks! Another way to speed the game up is go to a 1 and 1 count. So what if USSSA thought of it first. Get in the batter's box looking for something to hit! A pitching arc of 6-10' would speed up the game. You could probably play a full game in one hour with these changes and the tournaments wouldn't get so far behind all of the time.
June 8, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
JAWOOd: There r several ways to speed up the game: 1) the UMPs, can tell the defense to get to their positions. 2) the UMPs, can call a batter to the plate, after 60 seconds. 3) games can have a team bat twice. After the 3rd out or 5 runs, the batt' team clears the bases & a new 3 outs or 5 runs. Once this is done, the the defense team, gets it 2 turns @ bat.

There is a problem w/ this..... 1) Why, should UMPs, hurry up teams? 2) 6 outs, will also, change the game..

If, teams want to play 7 innings, then the players will have to hustle & get in better shape.

I am sure that there r other solutions. Do we SENIORS, want to make more changes & add more rules??

HUSLTE in & out!! The STONEMAN
June 8, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2614 posts
Why should the game be played faster??? If you want to speed the game up, just play 5 innings, better yet, just flip a coin. I say play it like it was meant to be played, 7 innings or shorter if a run rule applies, NO time limit.
A tournament director should be the only one that wants to speed up the game.
June 8, 2007
Rod Sweet
Men's 70
53 posts
I noticed that the The Villages Geezer Jock tournament scheduled for October has a time limit of 1hr 15 min now this is different from other tournaments. I'm not in favor of a time limit, but now you have different times for different associations (no consistency) Stoneman how r u ?
June 8, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
ROD SWEET: Thanks, I am do' great. I hope things r also, great 4 the players in u're area. Rod, nice question!

JAWOOD: Is u're concern gett' in 7 innings? OR is u're concern 1 hr (most UMP's, want the game over in an hr, or, as the ASA UMP's in Vegas, these men wanted more money & sued LVSSA. Yes, these ASA UMP's, did lose.)

GARY19: There u go again?? R u sure that it is a he & not a she, that want the games to end after 1 hr?? U have u're thoughts, so, if, I may..... IS THIS NOT U'RE LATEST POST? "If a player is in a hurry to get the game over maybe he shouldn't bother playing."

IF u r go' to be negitive, why, do u read or post answers?? Could u stop play'?? Give all of u're advice. WHEN WILL U FOLLOW, SOME of it??????

Have a NICE DAY........ The STONEMAN
June 8, 2007
PattyMac
96 posts
I agree with Gary 19. Leave the game alone. I play to play not to watch. Quit changing the rules. Softball is a hitters game so leave the strike zone and the mat alone.

Stoneman, hope to see you in Las Vegas. I am playing 50 and 55 teams this year at different tournaments. Playing 4 tournaments with Horace this year.

Also i would rather hit good balls witha regular bat than socks with the ultra II. In my opinion the ultra II has changed the game in a bad way.

Just venting so have fun with it.
June 8, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
PATTY MAC or MELT: Nice to hear from u. Don N, is get' over hos knee surgery. I hope to c the 3 of u guys in Vegas.

I also, agree about the Mat & Strike Zone. As u r one that plays in the Major Plus Division, there is a need 4 a longer time. But, UMP's, should get more money, when do' M + games.

The U-2, is great 4 the older men. Because of the U-2, some of the 65 & older men r get' more hits. 6 yrs ago, before the Ultras, I watched most of the older men mak' a lot of outs & the scores were low. It seamed that the Outfielders, were play' about 180' to 220' on 300 ft fences.

Patty, Bruce, & many other Seniors, do not need the U-2s. I believe that almost all Seniors, like a good softball to hit. As far as bats, I am still look' 4 Tech.' Infor on the SENIOR COMBAT. Does the SENIOR COMBAT, past the Re-vised ASTM 1890??

In B.P., I hit my 30 oz Anti-Virus, Virus, 484, 600 Series E.L., M-7, & SENIOR COMBAT. Maybe, I am just lucky. But, several of us Vegas Seniors, seam to hit "our" collection of bats, about the same. The SENIOR COMBAT, seams to go a lil' farther.

Patty, did u notice that we have a New Member to SS-USA? This was JAWOOD'S, 1st post. So, u Southern Red Neck, tip u're hat & say HOOWWDDYY, to Jawood.

The STONEMAN........ NO HO-JOES!!!!!! Ha Ha...
June 8, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Both are bad ideas. To speed up the game is very simple. Get rid of all the fooling around between innings. Allow 1 or no warm up pitches (If we can't find the plate by now 3 warm ups aren't going to help).

Those two simple changes will get you 7 inning in the alloted time limit of games.

We used to enforces that in one of our leagues and we would get a double header in about 2 hrs and 15 mins.
June 8, 2007
leftyodoul
Men's 60
95 posts
All Senior Softball Leagues should go to a 1 &1 count. Why does anyone need more than 2 strikes to hit a softball? This would speed up the game but still allow for a seven inning game to be completed in the alloted time.
June 8, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Speeding up the game will come naturally if everyone involved will just do their own small part. Umpires can start the pre-game stuff before scheduled game time. Managers can have their lineups made out ahead of time. Players can all be there and be ready to play. Teams can hustle in and out of the dugouts between innings. Pitching warmups can be limited. Same for infield practice. Batters and on-deck batters can be ready to go. CR's can be ready to go and planned for ahead of time. If these things can happen, there are no reasons for rules changes designed for shortening or speeding up the games. It's really pretty simple. I'd much rather see us do our part instead of trying to scramble the rules to cover what we all should be doing in the first place. JMO
June 8, 2007
Robo2
220 posts
Speed up the game but not at the cost of enjoyment. No 1 and 1 counts; no extended mats; don't make changes to the structure of the game.

If we have a limit of runs per inning, then make HRs unlimited. You will speed us the game and the best teams will win.

The tournament that I liked best is the SPA nationals; they allow for enough time in bracket play; unlimited scoring in double elimination and schedule 2 hours between games so the tournament stays on time.

If we start changing the game too much it becomes something different then what we all love.

If teams take too long to get into the field during the game, let the umpire start calling balls. Of course, I am not an outfielder so getting into position between innings is not a problem for me.
June 8, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
DG couldn't have said it better. It must be a great idea if Gary19 and myself agree.
June 8, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
You guys are scarin' me!!!
June 9, 2007
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
I think my messege got thrown a curve a little bit. I did not mean to shorten the game so we can get it over with faster, I meant speeding up the game in regards to getting more action during the time we get to play the game, whatever the time limit! I played a league game the other night and the score was 40-33. It took 1hour 10 minutes to play with unlimited HR's and a 1 and 1 count. Oh yea, and the pitchers could get the ball over the plate, that helps.
June 9, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Jawood,
I'm with you and some of the guys at the same time.
Fewer changes the better but major change to help us all
is OK with me.
I would go 1 and 1 count, all the time, across the board in Senior Softball.
Effortlessly speeds games up and as a pitcher
I like it too, being only one ugly pitch away from having the batter
have to protect the plate.
I believe that the full count was meant for fast pitch games
where the ball is harder to hit and gives the batter
more of an advantage.
1 and 1 count makes hitters more aggressive
which I like better as a batter.
I hit better when I'm not so particular about what pitch I swing at.

When I play with the kids in USSSA events I never him them complain
about the 1 and 1 count.
Never.
June 9, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,
I like rigorous debate like I like playing competitive softball.
Brings out the best and worst in all of us.
I couldn't disagree with you more on this and some other issues,
Gary but I don't have a problem with you or your views
as long as respect defines the space between us.

I still think Platooning is a great idea for Senior Softball.
I like the mat bigger, the pitcher farther back and hot balls and bats.
I think defense is more important than offense and I find it more challenging and rewarding than hitting.
I have lots of views that differ from the norm but
don't have a problem with anyone who disagrees with me.
I find reasonable conflict both challenging and rewarding
but have the toughest time with people who's ignorance
doesn't allow them to praise the living for their assertions
and ideas and even their right to make mistakes
as long as they care and come with good intentions.

So, let the debate continue now and forever
and we will build a forum for all to come,
contribute and learn.
No less than the foundation of a true democracy
and perhaps, a lot more.
June 10, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,
I been getting the feeling for a while that you been laying and waiting in the bushes
for me to take a wong turn.
I hope I'm wrong but if not you can contact me
directly if you have a beef and keep the message board about softball.

I've reread some of your posts and a lot of the time
you seem negative and critical of people like Jawood
who have opinions that are different from yours.
That being the case, the comments and criticisms you make
are really all about you and not your subjects.

We want people like Jawood to be comfortable to express their views
and be recognized and appreciated for who they are and their contributions,
and not be worried or afraid about being attacked by anyone,
especially someone who's views are more a product of themelves than
what they think they're commenting on.

So, keep it positive on the board, Gary and respectful.
I'm not asking.
And if you have a problem with me
"have the stones" as you might say to contact me directly
and I'll do my best to straighten you out.
June 12, 2007
tattooball
604 posts
Softball and baseball is supposed to be played by the inning not by a clock. USSSA major program sped the game up by going to a 1-1 count no foul after the 2nd strike and when you hit a homerun you go to the bench. (no touching the next bag) It works because pitchers throw strikes, batters swing at the first good pitch and homerun hitters and runners go to the bench immediatly.
June 12, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Kevin, you monster.
My ODB guys who were leaving the park
when we were haviing BP asked me who was hitting those bombs
deep into the night.
They knew it wasn't me cause they saw me pitching to this big guy.
I enlightened them, TBall.

I don't like the restricted home runs when I play U-Trip with the kids either.
I thought we might just take the 1 and 1 count and put it in
with the rest of OUR rules.
Shoot me if you want but I like the 1 and 1 count just like Jawood
for both pitching and hitting.
I think being aggressive at the plate makes us better hitters.
And already having that first strike called is a pitcher's dream.

Have fun with Bogie and don't be too hard on him.
He tore up his shoulder.
Like you, he can hit the ball with anyone.
June 12, 2007
leftyodoul
Men's 60
95 posts
Einstein - Just letting you know that you are not alone in your thoughts regarding the Senior Game. Just because we used to start with a 0 0 count doesn't mean that it was the best way to play slow pitch softball. When U-trip first started I was deadset against starting with a 1 and 1 count. But after playing a season of it, I felt that it was a big improvement in the game. It made the hitters more aggressive and it kept the defense on their toes. It also cut down on the number of walks. I personally feel that too many senior players go up to the plate looking to be walked. Isn't one of the main reasons that you come out to play, so you can swing the bat?
June 12, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Lefty,
Nice post.
It comes to mind from playing/pitching in U-Trip
that I would not only go with the 1 and 1 count for seniors
I would go down to 3 feet for the lower end of the arc.
That would give the pitchers the advantage they need
in keeping hitters off balance.
So 3-12 would be the ideal arc with no faking.
More ground balls, more demand for good defense
and keeps the infielders on their toes.
June 12, 2007
Hit the gap
Men's 60
142 posts
Einstein and Lefty, I have to disagree with you on this one. I pitched USSSA for years and pitched for a youngsters team until I was 55.

From a pitchers perspective, I love the 1 and 1 count. From a hitters perspective, It puts you at an immediate disadventage. With the 3 ft arc, a good pitcher can throw a strike that literally barely gets above your knees at the high point of the pitch. Keep in mind that the 3 ft arc is from the point of release so if you are releasing from close to the ground, it can be a very difficult pitch to hit. I also don't think it sped up the game that much.

I think we sometimes lose perspective of the fact that the vast majority of senior players reside at "recreational" level of play and for most of them, it is all about hitting and waiting for the best pitch to hit.

By the way, I used to love it when guys tried to shoot the middle, even on purpose, because 90% of the time, they were out.
June 12, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
HTG,
Great post.
It's great to hear opinions from someone with so much relevant experience.
I think you're right about the pitcher having an advantage with that low strike.
That's probably why it appeals to me as a pitcher.
As a hitter I tend to be undisciplined.
I never saw a pitch I didn't want to swing at still fits me too well.
And I like the look of a low pitch when I'm about to swing.
Of course, I don't hit it as well but I still like to swing at low stuff.
June 12, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
SENIORS: The follow' is a list of U-trip rules & SENIOR RULES: 1) The Black Border that outlines the plane is NOT to be considered Home Plate. 2) PIVOT FOOT is the foot, when placed on the Pither's Plate, or w/ in the 6' box, that must maintain constant contact until the Pitches Ball is released. 3) After assuming the pitch' position, the pitcher must present the ball in FRONT OF HIS BODY (4 @ least one second) in either one or both hands before start' the delivery motion. 4) Only a definite underhand motion is permitted in the delivery of the Pitch. 5) The pitch must be released w/ in 5 seconds ................... 6) Pitcher must face Home Plate on delivery of pitch. 7) The Pitches Ball must arc @ least 3' after leav' the pitcher's hand & ........ 8) The Ump shall warn a Pitcher who deliverys a Pitch w/ EXCESSIVE SPEED that repeat' such................ 9) A quick-return Pitch. (Unfairly Delivery Pitch.....) 10) In the Men's 50, 55, 60, 65, 70 & over & the Women's 50, 55, 60, 65, & Over Divisions, the pitched ball must arc @ least 6' from the ground, but not more than 10' from the ground...

I just sure that everyone wants (NOT) to read the above.

The STONEMAN...
June 12, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I would like to speed up the game for one reason. When I spend the money to go to qualifers, national and world tournaments, I want to play seven tha's "7" innings in every game.

1. I believe in and like the 1-1 count.
2. I like the 6 to 10 foot arc. The 6 foot is easy for an ump to judge as he can estimate the pitchers height and judge accordingly. I believe they can judge about 4 feet over the pitchers head as most pitchers are around 5-10 to 6-1 or so tall. Most umps have absolutely no concept as to what 12 feet actually is.
3. two warm-up pitches per inning and no infield ball after the 1st inning.
4, I think the current mat and plate as a strike are fine. If a pitcher can't hit that large area, find a new pitcher.
June 13, 2007
Jawood
Men's 50
788 posts
It kind of comes down to either liking to the USSSA game or the old ASA game. I'll take USSSA anytime! ASA still thinks we are playing baseball. It's funny when someone says that they don't like the 1 and 1 count because it puts the batter in a hole right away. Am I correct in saying the pitcher is still throwing the ball underhand? We can survive with a batting average of .600, can't we? Everyone doesn't need to hit .750!
June 13, 2007
Hit the gap
Men's 60
142 posts
Jawood, a good USSSA pitcher can throw some very unhittable stuff. I'll give you an example. On 5/25 there was a Men's Major (youngsters) tourney in NC. I think you would agree that these are the best hitters in softball at this leval. Here are some of the number of runs scored on the losing end.

1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 8. These games were dominated by the pitchers with some very good D behind them.

I know you will not see this kind of pitching in Senior ball but your premis that's it's just underhand is way off when it comes to a real good USSSA pitcher.
June 13, 2007
Cliff 21
Men's 55
13 posts
Am in total agreement that going to 1 & 1 count is the most logical way to speed up a game in an effort to get in seven--time limits were not meant to be.
As far as hustling in & out, most teams do that albeit with occasional prodding from umpires. Infield balls between innings we do not do after the first inning.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is the frequent delays caused by home run/foul balls not being retreived. With the escalating tourney fees & all,perhaps tournament officials should provide more game balls or provide people to retreive them at least.
Yeah, I know, so run with the 1 & 1.
Cliff Noble
June 14, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
CLIFF 21: U have a few good points, but I beleive that u r off to the side. Foul Balls & H.R.'s do slow sown the game.

I read awhile back, that there was a study, done on how much time is saved by the 1&1 count. If, my memory is correct; the study "proved" that only 2-3 minutes were saved by the 1&1 count.

In the 70's, I played in a league inwhich, the UMPs, forced a batter into the batters box w/in 60 seconds. This was @ the chang' of each 1/2 inning. We were not hit' a great deal of H.R.'s, but games were still end' before the 7th inning.

Can we look @ this from a math view?? 60 minutes / 2 teams = 30 minutes...... 30 minutes / 7 innings= 4.5 minutes per 1/2 inning. Players have to run in, get their bat, & maybe a drink of water.

SO.......... To get 7 innings in 60 minutes, each team has to hit, make 3 outs & hussle in & out in 4.5 minutes. No I am not a Rocket Scientist & u can bet no Holiday Inn Express, will ever let me in!!!!!!!

WHAT DO WE SENIORS WANT???? PIECE on EARTH or the TOOTH FAIRY???????? The STONEMAN.... It is Jack Time.......
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