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Discussion: Playing down

Posted Discussion
June 18, 2007
conman44
13 posts
Playing down
E G Fred, hope your team gets it berth it's only right, WE played this past week-end and lost every game. I guess no body is on all the time. We are 2 and 2 against you this year now I think that speaks for it's self. We also lost twice to No Dice who was also in Reno. My point is if your in 1 higher division in the next age bracket up things should be about even. Hope everyone had a great fathers day....
June 18, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Actually - the only fact that counts is your team should never have played in the AAA bracket of ANY qualifier. You should have been with your own division OR played EXIBITION ONLY to keep from denying an AAA team it's rightful place. My Mom used to have a saying that makes the truth ring out loud and clear here, "a guilty conscience needs not accuser". Your protestations ring loud and clear, you yourself know what happened and your gain from it is wrong.
What amazes me is that we aren't hearing much from the other teams that were scammed during this fiasco. We sit still for this kind of stuff and we all lose.

There has to be some input from the other teams involved.

Conman - way to go by starting another thread you're deflecting away from the opinions on this already stated in the original thread.
June 18, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Couple of points that seem apparent PeteD. No need for the other teams in that division to say anything, for a couple of reasons. Only one of those teams finished second and has the ToC argument to make, and they all apparently have you to charge up the hill with your sabre rattling on this one. Also seems to me that conman44 has been pretty straight up on this. It's not his fault that they were the only one to enter in that age group division and it's not their fault where they were placed. Lastly, a new thread is sometimes the best thing that can happen when some threads get so long that all we read are re-hashed statements of what too many others have already stated. Best example of that is the Imlay thread. Something like almost 90 replies and no more than a handful of original thoughts. Thanks conman for being a standup guy.
June 18, 2007
bert55
Men's 60
24 posts
Pete D,check the rating of Associated Feeds. They won the 55 major LVSSA Worlds and were bumped to major plus. Animals and Associated Feeds are the same team yet the Animals continue to play major in 2007.
June 18, 2007
conman44
13 posts
Desert Guy thx for your comments. bert and pete know your facts...
June 18, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
DesertGuy - you're probably right, I've said too much. I guess what happens in Reno stays in Reno. This is just the third irregularity in 4 years I've noticed out of this particular tournament so it gets grating. If we have these divisions made to ensure fair competition coupled with associations that are supposedly looking after the integrity of our sport it's alarming to see the association doing exactly what it's preaching they waqnt to control - heck - they had complete control and THEY do it.
No - it's not Conman's teams fault that they entered and played but by not being put in the correct catagory/division they and the association screwed 13 other teams. If they were not in that competition the whole order of finnijnsh might have been different but you'd think that the palyers of those other teams would have something to say - otherwise no harm no foul and it's let the buyer beware for the upcoming events.
I bet those other 13 teams thought they were in an AAA bracket when they sighned up and spent their money. I doublt seriously that there was any effort to let them know prior to showing up that a Major team was playing down.
June 18, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Sorry guys I should have proofed that last post. Big fingers hitting too many keys at once.
June 18, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
PeteD- I think we're on the same page here. It's too bad that we all have seen too many situations with teams playing either out of age or out of division, or both, in too many tournaments. I'd like to see teams NEVER play out of age. Either play up in their own age and get an equalizer, or play down in their own age and give one. There are too many things that can go wrong otherwise, like maybe Reno this year, when you move out of your own age. A young 55-Major team, with maybe all 55-year olds will have a lot of success against about any older 50-AAA team full of 54-year olds. But the opposite is probably true with an old 55-Major of 59's against a young 50-AAA of all 50's. And I'd bet it's impossible to know or even guess about it ahead of time. Best rule IMO would be to never move a team out of age, and leave it to the affected team to decide if they want to play with or without the equalizer in their own age and not have even the potential for an unfair result or maybe ask for a refund to apply the fee to a future event where there might be a better mix of teams in their own deal.
June 18, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
One last fact. The average age of Conman's team is 57.5 years of age. Not one player could be 10+ older than their competition as stated before. Not exactly an "old" 55 team based on their posted roster. Anyone that could be 10+ years older is playing on their 60's team. I'll put that in the know your facts catagory alluded to in an earlier post.
June 18, 2007
conman44
13 posts
Guys my last entry; we got re-rated today, no problem we'll play where they put us. Pete for your last entry 6 of my players move up to 60 next year so 6 of us could of been playing against guys 10 years younger. Conman signing off...........
June 18, 2007
jrhunch
92 posts
we are playing in the 50 major in manassas this week.travel lodge 55 major plus is in our age group.they won 3 major 50 world tournies last year and are on moveup list.we are looking forward to playing them.issa is letting them play so it isnt their fault.they are not cheating anyone.i am curious about the rules because we have more 55 and 54 year olds than the other ages.will be moving to 55 and over next year.some of us want to play on the 50 and 55s next year but the issa rules say you have to play at the same level in each age group to play on both teams.is this right?am i missing something?
June 19, 2007
EG Fred
Men's 60
16 posts
I know it's not the fault of the Major team that they got put into our division in Reno. I know a lot of the guys on the team very well. Played against them for the last 5 or 6 years. They are a bunch of good guys. We played them this last weekend and got a little lucky and beat them. My beef is more with the associations. I would just like to hear from them about the TOC invitation.
June 20, 2007
4x4
Men's 65
595 posts
Fred - you're right, everybody in that division was placed in an unfair position. The real question here is whether or not this bracketing/division inequity will continue to be created by the associations running the "big" tournaments. They are the one's that are supposed to be controlling the playing field with fairness to all.
I know and have played with and against these guys too and to a man they are a group of good ball players and good guys. In my opinion I think Conman was straight up for the most part but did try and sugar coat their victory. They undoubtably played hard to win, it was just not a fair situation for the Major team or the AAA teams that had to play against them.
Hopefully your team will receive a/the TOC invite and their team will continue to do well both will be successful at the TOC. It is now THE tournament and to be denied to your AAA team would not be correct That's about the only fair way to rectify this messy situation.

Let us know.
June 25, 2007
EG Fred
Men's 60
16 posts
Just looked at the list of qualifiers for the this years TOCand I see that a decision has been made. We did in fact get the invitation for the 50's AAA birth.
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