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Discussion: Young people coming into Senior softball (Ness\'s comments)

Posted Discussion
July 27, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Young people coming into Senior softball (Ness's comments)
I didn't want to hi-jack the other thread thought I would post my observations on young(50's) entering Senior softball. I think one of the great ideas SSUSA has is their 40's division. I enjoyed my time in that division and had my eyes opened up to the level of play at the Senior level because we were in the same parks as the Senior divisions. One of the great memories was a gentleman I think from Minnesaota playing 60 Majors with one arm hitting ropes into LC. I think the older divisions should take time to watch the 40's and introduce themselves to these players as ambassadors and in the case of major/major plus teams a source of talent. The other fond memory is playing against the Mavericks 50 major plus team in my late 40's (they played in a 40's qualifier) and marvelling at the talent. In my small world I'm trying to relay my experiences to my friends who are nearing the stage where they qualify to play Senior and entering select young folks tournies with mainly Seniors and letting them watch us play. I get questions all the time from young folks wanting to know about the Senior game. I think there is nothing like face time from the Seniors to perspective Seniors in the form of entering a tournament or two away from the Senior game and selling the game.
July 27, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
There's no confusion on my end, tournament ball is what I like so therefore my energy. Gary exactly how many individuals have you intorduced to Senior tournament ball, be part of the solution not the problem, it's way more fun to create than tear down. If you were my first contact with Senior softbal I would have set myself on fire and put a bullet in my head. Luckily that wasn't the case. Personally I have signed up about 20 people and most are still playing. Don't expose yourself anymore it makes you look small minded. Put a tournament team together from your league there are plenty of tournaments I'm sure within driving distance from your area. Your not the expert and neither and am I but at least I'm in there pitching and taking my lumps.
July 27, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
One of the thins I find wrong on this board and the Magazine is that tey are both too tournament oriented. there is nothing on here or in the Magazine to attract the newer younger players. We have over 300 Senior players in our league alone and outside of maybe 15-20 could care less about tournaments. So IMO if you want to sell Senior Softball to the younger players stressing tournaments is not the way to do it.

I also agree that there are too many Assoc and tournaments. Unless you have a sponsor with unlimited funds and players who will travel every weekend you are going to have teams that can only go to a limited number of tournaments. You have enough teams to stock a good size tournament but the problem is they are spread around all the different tournaments going on each week.

There are so many World Championships around that I really don't know what it means to be Wold Champion. Of What??

I will say that the TOC is a step in the right direction. But I would guess it is only a matter of time till other assoc come up with thier TOC and we are right back where we come from.
July 27, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Fred:
I always value your posts because... 1) I like the fact that you're still very much involved... it gives me something to aspire to... and 2) you seem like a very reasonable person.
But I disagree with part of your last post on this thread.
If I worked for SSWC, the provider of this forum, I would be fully cognizant that it is a 'for profit' business. It's primary business is running tournaments. This is the area that I would focus on for that reason. The senior leagues, while great things, are not conducive to the profitability.of this assn.
I do agree that there are too many associations and that some of them get in each other's way. I have attended one Summit Advisory Board Meeting, which in itself is an effort to coexist. We all have the right to pick and choose which assns we prefer to support. Of course, we also have the freedom to play solely in senior leagues if that makes more sense.
The labels that the assns use in merchandising their product doesn't really concern me. So if it's 'Western World' or 'World Series' or 'National Championship'... who really cares? What matters is the product itself.
We have a senior league in Long Beach, CA, and many of the players are also on tournament teams. Those that do not play nationally either don't have the time, the resouces or the ability. The senior league serves a vital function in creating an environment for those players.
This board is mostly for the guys that do support SSWC. It also allows access to those that don't as a service and/or with the future hope that they will. To expect the board to serve the leagues first and tournaments second is, in my opinion, presumptuous. If it were my business, I would promote the products that I sell.
Bob Woodroof
July 27, 2007
SOFTBALLGRAMPS
Men's 55
98 posts
Bob my name is Danny and i would like some info on the L.B leauge or any other leauge that you know about, if you could call me at 909-923-2167 i would appeciate it
July 27, 2007
E. Ness
122 posts
Gary how many senior associations are there that hold qualifiers across the country for their world tournaments? The answer is 3 and I will let you name them. How many associations in younger ball hold same type of qualifiers? Answer is 4. Plus they hold regionals, nationals, and have a point system that can qualify a team for worlds. In that association it is all about how many tournaments you enter to rake up points. The legit association that hold legit worlds that you talk about are larger in number on the younger side than the older side.

My son's team won a USSSA qualifier early in the year and in order to get a good seed in the world they have to still rack up points, play in the regional, play in the national, and then go to worlds. All of these tournaments cost at least 200+ to enter and by the team they get to worlds they have paid out more in fees than the seniors do for a world tournament and a qualifier. In order to know this you would have to go play tournament ball which by your own omission you do not do. Try playing in a few senior tournaments around the country and then if you don't like it complain.

As far as the younger players we have a lot of reasons as to why they are not come to the tournaments teams some have been mentioned here and some have not. I would suggest we are a little to restrictive on some rules and we are not reaching out. There is more to this but I have 3 paragraphs already and more than that tend to upset some readers so I will save my thoughts for later.
July 27, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Getting players in their 40's involved is one thing. But they are in no way, seniors.
Comes back to bringing in the money,
Next you'll see them even younger yet, vying for the same fields, cities etc. Not that their not now.
Not saying this is not a good thing, but there is an age the senior designation, isn't there.
Don't they get different HR rules than seniors do, but WHY?
Let them play the later games in the heat, which is not good for the senior set, and play on the not so good fields.
Kinda like earning your passage to the senior ranks as we all had to do. Unless you just started playing at the ripe old age of 49 ish (turning 50 in that year)
July 27, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Taits the 40's team I played on last year produced 3 players that went onto play Major Plus, I know of several other teams that also have guys playing Major Plus and multiple numbers also off those teams. Expand the 40 program and I think the Major/Major plus programs greatly benefit. I saw in the newsletter a survey to combine the 50'55 programs at the major plus level. I read that to mean more players need to be infused into the system. My passage was a valid DL and a passport and a check.
July 27, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
the wood: You are right about that being the purpose of the Assoc. but I was just rambling on from a local league viewpoint about the Assoc. I would be willing to bet that maybe 20-25 of our over 300 members even know what SSUSA is even though up till this year that was the rule book we went by. They all know what ASA is because of of the bat rules but that is about it.

I like the tournament coverage now that I can play nationally again in the 75 Div. If I had my way I would play tournaments every week if i could find enough different teams to play on but I am limited to the 75 div because of the territorial rule in the 70 Div.

I do play on 2 local 70 teams but they don't travel that much.
July 27, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Like I said, Fred, you're an inspiration for all of us. Keep hitting them.
:-)
Bob Woodroof
July 27, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Lecak,
My main point I was trying to say is that 40 year olds are NOT seniors.
That being said, I know there are ball players that move up or down the latter and that is as it should be.
No reason for argument on their abilities especially at that age. Hell, 20 years for my is alot to say the least let alone the ten additional years needed to be called a senior.
As for the passport, What i was trying to get across is that the younger set can withstand the heat and lousy field conditions one comes across better than a guy alot older.
Also not saying their not entilted to earlier games on the good fields either. Just looking at a health and safety issue.
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Gary:
For years MLB has called the last series of the year the 'World Series' even though we had very few foreign players... in fact, we didn't even allow all of our own people to play. Yet we called it the world series.
As I said, I really don't care what they call these events as we make our decsions based upon the quality of the event, not its nomenclature. Quality to us is the number of high end teams that will be there more so than the location. For what it's worth, we haven't played in the Western World. This is mostly due to its timing (too close to another event).
Bob Woodroof
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Gary:
You have made your point, I have made mine. Is there some compelling reason to drag this out? If so, it has escaped me.
July 30, 2007
DMac
Men's 60
186 posts
Hey Wood: Cut Gary 19 some slack. He lives in a suburb of Cleveland, so he probably is a lifelong Indians fan. That would be enough to make Dale Carngie negative.:)
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Gary, you have repeatedly stated that we are a 'closed minded little society'. We are.
But we let anyone in that can speak intelligently about the subjects that are instigated. This has included you more often than not.
I'm sure that it is difficult, if not impossible, for you to see why so many posts are aimed back at you in a negative manner. Some of us have been the recipients of negative posts as well. The difference is that we recognize it and make the effort to re-direct ourselves.
Ultimately, we all 'reap what we sew'... whether we're willing to accept it or not.
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
I wouldn't ask you to re-direct ANY of your opinions. It's your method of conveying them that most take exception with. I am basing this on the number of posts that have been addressed to you.
If it's the attention that you need, I wouldn't re-direct anything.
July 30, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Gary19:
I think the Est West thing may have something to do w\ the Mississippi being a dividing point in the US. Could be wrong since I haven't looked at the teams playing in the Eastern T.

Bob:
I'd have to agree on 4 of the 5 points he listed....

But
As for diving into 1st, it's got to be a run through, as being the faster, hands down. Now going to any other bag, would be dependant on if a tag was needed for the play and not a force out. imo
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Taits:
I'm not sure if you're stating that you agree with me or Gary on the 4 of 5 points. Regardless, I agree with most of them as well.
On the 'dive v. run through' point... you are entitled to feel any way that you want and I respect your freedom to express it.
July 30, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Bob: to shey (sp)
I just look at it like: a runner going full speed to a point is most likely to get their faster than a runner who falls before reraching that point then crosses it if he does.
Any way I guess that why we have the 1st ammend.
July 30, 2007
the wood
1087 posts
Yes, the 1st amendment offers us this right.
BTW, I wasn't being sarcastic in the previous post to you. I am open to your thoughts.
July 30, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Bob, I knew that...Thanks.
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