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Discussion: 1 and 1 count-interesting comment

Posted Discussion
Aug. 19, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
1 and 1 count-interesting comment
For those of you on the site well know, I have been a proponent of the 1-1 count to ensure that each game will be a full "7" innings before the time limit runs out. My tracking of this topic has been that games run 10 minutes faster than when using the 0-0 count.

In our first game in the Eastern Nationals, I turned to the ASA ump and asked, if this was a 0-0 count tourney. He said yes and added that he couldn't understand why an intelligent person would want to play with a 0-0 count. He also added that he felt the game would move as much as 15 minutes faster with a 1-1 count. I know that some of my own teammates will always take 2 strikes before swinging and it drives me nuts.

Now, please remember, my goal is not to make the game shorter. It is to ensure that we will reach the "7th" OPEN inning with time on the clock. I can't stand losing a one run game that only goes 5 innings.
Aug. 19, 2007
SCRAPPY6
55 posts
WE PLAY SEVERAL TOURNAMENTS A YEAR AND ALSO LEAGUE BALL WITH A FULL 4/3 COUNT. ONLY A HANDFULL OF GAMES NEVER GET TO THE SEVENTH INNING. THE REASON IS WE HUSSTLE IN AND OUT OF THE FIELD AND LIMIT ANY INFIELD PRACTICE.
ON A 1-1 COUNT YOU ARE SAVING ONE PITCH. THE REASON IS WITH A 1-1 COUNT YOU ALSO GET AN EXTRA FOUL.
TRUE, MANY PLAYERS LOOK AT ONE PITCH AND SO DO I AT TIMES. ON OUR TEAM I WOULD SAY THAT ONLY ONE OR TWO PLAYERS LOOK AT THE FIRST PITCH.
WITH A ONE HOUR TIME LIMIT, BEFORE THE LAST INNING IS CALLED, AND A LIMIT OF 5 RUNS PER INNING IF TEAMS ARE HUSTLING IN AND OUT YOU SHOULD GET THE GAME IN.
I ADMIT, IF I PLAY WITH A 1-1 COUNT AND I LOOK AT THE FIRST ONE I MAY HIT AN INTENTIONAL FOUL. THIS ACTUALLY CAN TAKE MORE TIME AS A NEW BALL HAS TO BE PUT IN PLAY.
I'LL STICK WITH THE OLD 4/3 AS THERE ARE ENOUGH RULE CHANGES AND MODIFICATIONS AS THERE IS.
Aug. 20, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I agree with SCRAPPY6. I am also tired of players complaining about time limits and want to go to 1 & 1.

You hustle in and out and no warm ups between innings and no throwing the ball around on every out you should have no problem getting in 7 innings especiall with the 5 run limit. We we enforce the hustling in and out we get in a doubleheader around 2 hrs and 15 min.

Having played with a time limit and no time limit I would prefer the time linit. I just got back from Manassas where there was no time limit and the afternoons games where runnin an hour to 2 hrs behind schedule times.
Aug. 20, 2007
DCPete
234 posts
I guess it's a matter of perspective. As an outfielder, I hate standing out in 95 degree heat while batters take 4 or 5 pitches before swinging. And even worse is being told to hustle in and hustle out by infielders and umpires when they basically can walk to their positions after each inning.
Aug. 20, 2007
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
418 posts
I guess it is a matter of perspective. I also play outfield and it is a matter of pride to be the first to my position. I guess it goes back to the way my Dad taught me to play the game --- "grab your glove and get on the field, it's harder of the coach to take you out if you're standing at your position."
Aug. 20, 2007
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
606 posts
I still beg to differ on a 1-1 count because I see is as all part of the little things that are used cheat a player or make this into a revenue over play situation. Of course a time limit is part of that too, but next thing you know they want you to bring/buy your own balls, decrease the established time limit, start you with one out, or only allow one pitch. No one has ever suggested this in MLB, and I think that I know what the response would be. I promise to go peacefully once MLB has a 1-1 count and no extra fouls. Afterall this is America's pastime.
Aug. 20, 2007
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
While I have a preference for the 0-0 count, there are some good points being made on both sides. The one factor that sways me in favor of the 0-0 count is the inconsistancy of the umps in calling balls and strikes. While there are some very good umps out there, there are some really poor ones too. When you start out 1-1 and the ump makes a bad call on a strike, you find yourself with two strikes and the feeling that you need to swing at anything close. This may not be a big deal to some of the more elite players, but for me and my ilk, we find ourselves swinging at a lot of bad pitches with poor results.

In my view, using a mat would give us a more consistant strike zone, make the umps job easier and would persuade many like myself to be more in favor of the 1-1 count. Thank you for your time.
Aug. 20, 2007
slomo
47 posts
I agree with Gary. I too am tired of playing 5-6 innings in tournaments. Let's get a full game in once in a while, The 1-1 count is a way to do that. This is afterall slow pitch- It's not like hitting a 90 mph fastball.
Aug. 20, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Gary,

Couldn't agree with you more.
I LOVE the 1 and 1 count
both hitting and pitching.
Aug. 20, 2007
RonD22
Men's 50
26 posts
The 1 and 1 count will speed games up but lets face it it is not the only answer. We use it in out Florida Half century games very successfully. But the main cause of long games is not the pitching count. Teams gettin on and off the field, batters coming to bat, pitchers demanding warmup pitches and probably I think the biggest slow down is the courtesy runners. Many teams are not prepared to use them and take forever trying to figure out who can run and who cannot. It shouldnt be hard to get thru only 5 innings with time remaining on the clock. Once the last out of the 5th inning is made and we are in the 6th inning and time left we finish the 6th inning and play the 7th. So more games should go the full 7 innings.
Aug. 20, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2641 posts
Well put Nancy! The main thing that I believe slows down a game is the first batter or each half an inning not being ready when the umpire calls "play ball". Sure, there are times when that first batter is an outfielder but I have seen infielders take their time, carrying on conversations or what ever.
Keep the 0-0 count!
Aug. 20, 2007
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
I have been at this for only three years now. My ???? is why is the time not 90 min or 75 min.????? Who set the rule at 60min. ???? I'm the first batter on my team and I see it as one of my jobs is to make the pitcher throw strikes,
and to get on base. I walk a lot. I would not want to give the pitcher a free strike.
Wes
Aug. 20, 2007
breeze53
Men's 55
40 posts
Wow, I am taken back by the comparison of MLB to senior softball. To me they are 2 different games.
1. Larger ball
2. Our pitch speeds are 15 to 20 mph, not 90.
3. We are seniors, not young studs.
4. We use a mat for ball and strikes
5. We allow numerous pitch runners per inning or games.
6. We have time limits.
7. We use hot composite bats.
8. We allow no sliding at home plate, so we have a line to cross. And a alternate base at first, to prevent injuries.
It is a different game. To me it is frustating to travel to different tournaments, spending hundreds of dollars and only get to play 5 or 6 innings per game. { except championship games}. Playing in Florida Half Century with the 1 and 1 count and completing most of the games, then moving to Phoenix where we rarely play a complete games was a shock to me. To me 1-1 is more fun and takes nothing away from our game.
Aug. 20, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Wes: That is the main reason IMO for the time limit. Many teams have pitchers that can't throw strikes. If you have 2 pitchers that can throw strikes at will you usually have a game within the time limits. Batters are up there swinging as the ball is just about always on or around the plate so there is no sense looking for a walk.
Aug. 20, 2007
Bob50
Men's 60
239 posts
I'm for the 1 and 1 count. No extra foul. We have been over this a number of times. The 1 and 1 will enable more innings. More innings means more action during the time limits.

The 0/0 count means more waiting for most hitters to swing. Your exercise shouldn't come from running on and off the field to make up for time lost with extra pitches.

Its not only about getting 7 innings in. Its about seeing more game action during the time allowed.
Aug. 22, 2007
JOHN BOB
Men's 60
76 posts
The 1-1 count is ok for league play but not a national or world tournament .Why are we always trying to change this GREAT game?Schedule games 90 minutes apart & lets play.The umps could help some there has been a lot of times in past where both teams are ready to play but are waiting on umps I seem this wait be as much as 15 minutes
Aug. 22, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
JOHN BOB- I just checked the 3 tourneys that have results here right now and all of the games are on a 90 minute schedule. It also looks like any championship game is 7 innings with no time. That's good enough for me. Be ready to play and hustle in and out are the two most important things I see in moving games to completion at 7 innings. That and not wandering around like you're lost as a CR.
Aug. 24, 2007
Bolivar66
42 posts
Very Simple Solution:

1 & 1 Count
Bigger Mat
Mercy Rule.....25 after 3, 20 after 4, 12 after 5 or 6
Every Inning Open
Home Runs:
Major+.......Match Plus 3
Major ........Match Plus 2
AAA ..........Match Plus 1
AA ..........1 Per Game

Home Team can only Match the number of Homeruns that the Visiting Team has in 7th Inning. Anything Hit above that is an OUT.

Hitting Line Drives up the Middle Directly at the Pitcher will be an Out & the Batter will be ejected from the Game.
Aug. 24, 2007
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Bolivar, it all sounded OK till the end. I am not in favor of making rules for hitting a ball up the middle an out. No one tries to hit the pitcher on purpose. There is plenty of gear for the pitcher to wear, if he chooses. I hit the ball up the middle alot, and have never hit the pitcher on purpose, unless the other team was doing that(and that did happen once, because I overheard the other team in the dugout saying take out the pitcher). I gave the ball to my friend that pitches, and said it is your turn to pitch, but I told him what I overheard. LOL! I will not discuss this issue any further. Yes, I do pitch, and hope they hit the ball at me.
Aug. 24, 2007
Bolivar66
42 posts
Duke
Theres a difference of Hitting up the Middle and Hitting DIRECTLY at the PITCHER TO TAKE him/her out of the game
"INTENT TO INJURE" should be a LIFE TIME SUSPENSION
Aug. 24, 2007
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Bolivar, I agree with Duke. I pitch and try to get some to hit the middle. Please do NOT ever make it a mandatory out to hit the middle. Actually, I'd rather have a line drive then a one hopper. I've had guys come up the middle at me on purpose. So far only I got me good enough for surgery. I'm still pitching and will continue. Middle is fair game. Those who want a screen or an out for hitting the middle, need another position. Play the game as it was meant. Lets quite trying to change things. Anything between the foul lines is good.
Just my two cents.
Aug. 24, 2007
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Thank you GT. You did add what I thought to add after I posted my message. I prefer a line drive hit at me than a sharp ground ball. I have been hit 6 times, since my 30's. 5 times on a hard grounder, and once on a line drive. The line drive was on one of those fields where you could not see the ball coming becuase of the sun. I got the person out, but I was black and blue on my chest for 4 weeks. Also, I stopped that game, because it was suicide to play defense and not know where the ball was hit. It was like playing in Menifee on that sun field and not being able to see what to hit. A waste of everyones time and money, besides the safety factor. On 4 of the grounders, it was a hard shot that I just sucked and hit my shins. Bruised for 3-5 months, but continued to play.The last grounder was a major injury. It was a hard hit ball that I would normally catch 95 out of 100, but it hit one of pitching rubbers and took a bad bounce. I was out for 5 weeks, but back now. One way besides gear to protect the pitcher, is get those fast pitch mounds out.
Aug. 24, 2007
Duke
Men's 60
702 posts
Lastly, you think like me GT. When I cannot field my position or start playing dodge ball on the mound, then I will find myself another position. I have been practicing at another position the past 4 months, just in case.
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