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Discussion: What could this be ???

Posted Discussion
Sept. 5, 2007
calpops
32 posts
What could this be ???
The best bat is yet to be
Not made from across the sea
It has power bold and true
Even more than your U2
Will last far into future day
With a warranty
Made in the USA
From those you know
A name of trust
From their own factory
This bat will be a must
Sept. 5, 2007
azsenior
92 posts
Sounds like Miken is making a new bat for seniors.
Sept. 5, 2007
T-REX
64 posts
an Imlay Bomb Bat...
Sept. 5, 2007
azsenior
92 posts
I take it we are to guess the meaning. A new U2 type bat with a warranty. But from whom ?
I would guess who it is not. Made in the USA rules out Combat or Rip It. Worth or Easton. I think only Miken has their own factory. All the ‘off’ brands use CE so we can rule them out.
I would have to say Miken as well but not sure.
Sept. 6, 2007
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
Miken ULTRA II LEGACY Senior Softball Bats - Pre Order - Due in 9-26-2007 Comes with a full 1 year warranty. I will be hitting with this bat 9/7/2008 friday in las vegas at cheyene park at 9am and will post a review on my website later that day.
MK39
Sept. 6, 2007
MK39
Men's 50
333 posts
My Bad meant 9/7/2007 friday tommrow on the above post.
MK39
Sept. 6, 2007
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
hey mk39 tell everyone hello from, hope alls good 4 u all
monta,rhonda, ryan
Sept. 6, 2007
calpops
32 posts
Close but no cigar.
Sept. 9, 2007
mtman
30 posts
So if not Miken than who ?
I heard the new Miken is a U2 with a warranty for $299 or with without for $199. Wow what a deal ! We may be old but not dumb. Sounds like somthing a used car dealer would pull.
Sept. 9, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
MTMAN: To hell w/ the Miken Ultras. When the Gray Ultras were 1st made, I went thru 17 Gray Ultras, in less than 1 yr. Yes, I have no brains or a wife. Thank u god, 4 the latter.

When the U-2's were 1st made, the Major Plus players in Vegas, were lucky to get 200 swings on the U-2.

When the Bat Crap, when on in 2004, the U-2's, were good 4 about 150 swings.

The last batch of U-2's, that had the reg' knob, were good 4 less than 100 swings. I brought 4 bats & did not get over 60 swings on any of that BATCH. The U-2 Advance, is good 4 about 100 or less swings.

The WORTH 510, we broke in about 90 swings.

If, one is not a strong power hitter, the Ultras, will last a long time. Some of our clubs 6- & older members have gotten 2-3 yrs of use from an U-2.

This wk, I hit a SENIOR YELLOW RIP-IT, that was End Loaded. I broke that bat in 5 swings.

Best SENIOR BAT to buy...... the SENIOR COMBAT..........PERIOD. I am get' over 600 swings on my Red SENIOR COMBAT & Gray SENIOR COMBATS.

I would not throw my money away on any more MIKEN, bats that have the hipe, but, do not last @ least 600 swings.

Time 4 K-2, to MFR & SELL Bats that a strong or power hitter, can get @ least 1000 swings on that SENIOR Bat.... Any bat sold, must guaranteed a minium of 1000 swings / hits..

GOOD LUCK....... The STONEMAN...
HOW ABOUT, No more SENIOR Bats? If, a Bat can not pass the Revised ASTM 1890, that bat or those bats r not allowed in SENIOR BALL.......
Sept. 9, 2007
backlast
Men's 55
10 posts
The Senior Rip-It is not an EL bat. Was it a New bat? If it was new then something was wrong with it. My senior has over 800 hits on it and is still going strong. If it was new or close to new contact Matt at Rip-It and talk to him and he may take care of it. Rip-It is no longer making the Senior Elite and they are currently developing a senior bat that will be approved for senior play. I am a Rip-It dealer in N.C. and if I can be of help let me know.
Sept. 9, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
BACKLAST: R U call' me a lier? or CAN U NOT READ?

Who, gives a damn if, u r a rep or lives in N.C....... U were not @ the ball fields in N. Las Vegas, this Friday (09/ 07/ 07), where u??????????

I do know an End Loaded Bat when I swing one. This bat was End Loaded. This Bat was used in the Bomb Squad in Seattle, last wkend.

No, I do not want to calll anyone, including u. I do not need a SENIOR BAT. SENIORS, do not need another SENIOR BAT....

SENIORS, r not well thought of in ASA, ISA, USSSA, ECT.
WHY????? SENIORS, want Hot Bats & Hot Balls; spec' Senior rules, & so on, & so on!!

next time u post, big mouth, state ur Name; ur Home Town, what Age & Division u set the bench on. O, I forgot, u live in N.C., so...... WHAT TRAILER PARK...

Also, next time, try jump' someone else.
The STONEMAN.....
Sept. 9, 2007
batwise
35 posts
Stoneman;
We agree with you. Seniors do deserve a bat that can last 1000 swings, reasonable cost and a warranty. However I do not think Miken or Combat will answer the call. Miken is longer a K2 company but in the hands of a much larger power that just may cut them in threads if sales do not improve.
Combat may not be the answer for as they do make some good bats they are more or less a business blunder. Partly owned by CE here is a company that has done little to nothing with any form of market success or retail sales. These guys should be sitting on top of the softball market but instead just travel about the land with huge guys hitting balls in MLB fields.
I think the answer will come from someone else as the first post poem stated. The bat will not be by CE or Miken and made in the USA will be a strong possibility.
Sept. 9, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
BATWISE: When the ban' of bats started, C.E. Composite, & other BAT MFG's, took a step backward. C.E., was just start' out.....

Some of this slow pace, has been caused by.... WHEN WILL ASA AGAIN START ASA's Bat ban'???? I have been told by several SGMA Members, that ASA, has been raddl' their Sabers again & Bat MFG's r wait' 4 more BANS.

It is time 4 all Organiz's ( both MFG & Softball ), to get their ships in order. 1) Design Balls that will not go over 360 ft in 110 degrees. 2) Get rid of the light bats... No more 24, 25, 26, 27, & 28 oz Bats. ( It may be, that Bats need to go back to 30-34 oz). Recent tests, appears to show that lite Bats has caused BBS by 8%. ( Increased BBS.)

Easton Bats, r to e-z to tamper. Easton Bats, have a bad rep 4 MFG' Hot Bats. Easton, may not be the only Bat Company, that changes their production designs. ( Hot Bats. )

Time, 4 the Summit & the Summit's Reps, to start plan' & care out a well thought out PROGRAM.
The STONEMAN...
Sept. 10, 2007
batwise
35 posts
Stoneman;
I do not think the bat banning or the fear of banning has anything to do with the topic discussed above.
There are some companies with more on the ball that will take the lion’s share of the market. It will be very clear in the next four months or so. Thanks you for your input and wisdom.
Sept. 11, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Stoneman,
I gave you that Rip-it for you and Mike to use
and it had some 400 swings on it when it got to you
hitting very hard balls for the video
and with one of the most powerful hitters in the Universe,
Ken Van Bogaert swinging it in BP.
I thought you were aware of that but it looks like
you weren't.
I hit it 150 times myself in one day
culminating with a 410-415 shot
that wasn't wind aided, or in the light dry air of Vegas.
The YEllow Senior RIp it bat
is the best bat of the senior bats I've swung
and far out hits and out lasts any Ultra 2.
Sept. 11, 2007
koived
41 posts
Einstien,
You seem pretty touchy about the bat. you said it had 400 swings and MR STONEMAN so it only lasted 405 swings. I've seen guys hit many different bats with all different balls and distances and last at least that long. Hell I saw the combat guy in Illinois hit them way out in the parking lot way past 400 feet with 375 comp balls (I still have a few of them) after he bounced them on the barrel of the bat and hit them over the fence.
It sounds like you can't take any criticisum about the bat from a seemingly honest guy. I have always enjoyed deciphering MR Stonemans posts and have found them to be enlightening.
However your posts lately seem to jaded towards the rip-it bat and that confuses me because you can't even use it. Why are you promoting a bat that you can't even use in senior softball. Are they paying you to endorse the product?
It all just seems odd to me. My team started out with ultras, then a few switched to combats, now we all swing them. Yes they will break but no where near as fast as the mikens. Only a few of us have broken them and all have lasted over 1000 swings, with low comp balls.

As for Ken I've only seen him play in Illinois and he has a great swing but I have been to the major world series three times in the past 4 years and if he has one of the most powerful swings in the universe, I would certainly like to know compared to who?
Your post sounds like Kenneth Lay from Enron, there is a very good reason for everything that happened we just don't know what it is. Maybe the bat just wasn't that good.
Maybe he just did not like it that much. Is that a possibilty? Maybe they aren't paying him enogh to endorse the bat? Maybe this is his honest review of the product. It sounds that way to me. Don't beat a man down because he like to lick a different flavor of ice cream.
Sept. 11, 2007
azsenior
92 posts
You have to read between the lines here. What he is trying to say but not really say is the yellow Rip It bat may soon be a 1.20 legal senior bat. I also know some about this but cannot speak in detail.
Sept. 11, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
CELLMATE & AZ SENIOR: JOE, I did not want to bring u into this discussion on SENIOR BATS.

2 of the Vegas Major Plus players, had 28 oz Senior Rip-Its, that broke @ around 200 swings. Ur bat was End Loaded & lasted 400 swings.

The Senior Yellow Rip-It, is just to hot 4 SENIORS to use. It is time to stop SENIOR BATS. Seniors, just do not need to hit 350' to 400' Home runs.

The Rip-It, is a Senior Bat. This bat is hotter & exceeds the revised ASTM 1890 Bat Test. I hope that THE SUMMIT, wakes up & stop the use of Senior Bats.

SGMA, is a joke. SAFETY, in Senior Softball, is also, a joke.

Can a good BALL & BAT, be produced that will allow Home Runs, that travel the 1st 50 ft, in less than .42 of a second???? I do not have the math, but, one Pro, throw a baseball 415'. This pro, took a runn' start. In this throw, the Ball thrown, was calc' @ 115 MPH.

If, my calcs, r correct, this means that in the 1st .4 of a second, that thrown ball traveled 67.46 ft.( 168.6 FT / SEC)

Just My thoughts......... The STONEMAN...
Sept. 12, 2007
tattooball
604 posts
The problem is with the bats. Years ago good bats did hit the ball as fast and as far. We where hitting higher cor balls and using aluminum bats. The real difference was the size of the sweetspot. a single wall bat had a ss of about 1 inch. When you hit it here you got very favorable results. The problem was you had to practice very hard to be a great hitter with those bats. If the average player hit the middle with a single wall bat it may take 20-30 swings to hit one perfect that would be considered dangerous. Now when a player hit one in the middle he can hit 8 out of 10 that would be considered dangerous.
Now do the math it is much easier. The talent level has not improved just the equipment. It is so easy to buy a super bat and be a great hitter. It is impossible to become a faster reacting defensive player. As we all get older your reaction time slows. some faster that others but they do slow down.
Lets take a look at the senior ASA tourny's, I have been to several and the first thing a player say's is the ball sucks. Well the three I have been to the ball was the same on you hit in sswc, but the bats were ASA. Because the guys were not hitting home runs they thought the ball sucked. If you got rid of the senior bats it makes the game much safer but the players would have to learn how to play the game all over again. I am not to sure that would happen.
Then you would have throw in the cheating factor because you know a whole lot of guys would start showing up with altered bat to stoke their ego's because most would never hit another home run.
So Stoney what is the real answer? I don't know but it definatly would take alot of thought to make a move that would be acceptible to all involved. If you went out and banned senior bats new tourny's would pop up in a NY minute, then you would be spreading the field out even more than it is now. That to is something to be concerned with. It is tough enough now to get teams in the upper divisions.

Later Stoney, swing hard in case you hit it.
Kevin
Sept. 12, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Well said, Kevin! I agree with everything except the part about balls at ASA events. We used Gold Dots in Burlington and they aren't very good. It's too bad they don't use better balls, such as some Trumphs, then we couldn't blame poor offensive performance on balls.
This fall season our league switched from Super Gold Dots to Thunder Heat. I have seen some improvement but with ASA bats we can't hope to see shots like we did with 47cor balls and USSSA bats.
Sept. 12, 2007
tattooball
604 posts
Bruce that is not one of the senior touny's I do but I do agree they may not be the best ball for a tourny. I was refering to senior events that trump did. Those hit the same ball as the SSWC but with a ASA stamp and the guys were complaing like crazy.
Sept. 12, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
TRUMPBALL: R u aware of some articles written by Dr, Daniel A, Russel??

The sweet spot on most bats is 5" to 7" from the END of a Bat. Final Batted-Ball Speed does NOT matter how you, (one) grips the bat!!

The follow' article, " Vibrational Behavior of a Baseball / Softball Bat", details improvements in todays Bats.

Todays bats do NOT sting ones hands, because the Ball has traveled off ones bat, before vibrations can reach a Bat Handle (ONES HANDS).

This is why, older bats sting & Newer Bats, do NOT sting in ones hands. Bats r BETTER TONED. No or less vibrations.

Older bats has a SS of 1" to 2 ". Our New Tech modern Bats have SS of up to 6" & these Newer Bats have been Toned.

Kevin, the larger SS, has given the ave & less than ave players more hits, scor', & hopeful more desire & fun. Older teams have had to move their outfielders back 20' to 40 ' back.

This is why, I keep complain' about ridd' SENIOR SOFTBALL, of the 24 to 28 oz bats. To much Bats Speed, can & is gained by the lite Bats.

Let the ladies swing any Bat. Let the 65 & older men swing the lighter Bats. But, the 40 to 60 yr olds, need to swing 29 to 32 oz Bats.

Finally, let's not forget the diff' between CORK BALLS & todays POLY BALLS. Cork Balls were used w/ much diff' designed Bats. That error of Bat TECHNOLOGY, was ancient, compaired to todays NEW BAT TECH'.

THANKS KEVIN......... The STONEMAN
Sept. 12, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Koived,
Whoever you are and aren't (don't you just love guys
who hand out a lot of criticism and don't have stones
to sign is as he or she truly is? I don't)
I am not being paid by Rip it
to say anything about bats, for the record.

Now, onto the truth.
I've hit the Ultra 2, the Combat and the RIp-it
and there's no doubt that the Yellow Rip-it bats
I've swung hit the best and lasted the longest.
I still have a Combat I like but I've broken
3 of them in short order.
I used to rave about the Combat till I found a bat that's better and when/if I swing a bat better than the Yellow Rip it, I'll rave about it, too.

The guys at Rip-it really know how to make hot bats
and word is they're working on a 1.2 BPF senior bat.
I can't wait to get one cause if it's as good or better
than the yellow one
it will be the best bat on the market.

We're working to have the Yellow Rip it
as we speak
approved by NorCal, the largest senior softball
association in the country, for next year.

Lastly, Koived,
you always seem to be saying stuff for Combat.
If you decide to be respectful to me and the rest of us
and let us all know who you are and aren't
that would be a good start to earning some
credibility.
I too used to think that Combat made the best senior bat,
that is, till I tried the Rip-it Senior Elite.
These guys really know how to make bats both durable
and hot and I'm tired of buying U2's and Combats
that simply just don't last enough to justify the cost.
Sept. 12, 2007
azsenior
92 posts
From what I learned today both Combat and Miken might want to take a look around to see what is in the rear view mirror.
Sept. 12, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Koived,
I forgot to mention.
I've seen the best hitters in the Nation
both at tournaments and exhibitions and there's no doubt in my mind or the mind of anyone like Mike Kelly
or Gary Tryhorn who REALLY know what they're talking about the Ken Van Bogaert is and elite long ball hitter,
in the top 3 long ball, softball hitters
you'll ever see.
A 290 pound man who's dedicated to hitting and teaching the art/power of the long ball.
So, his swings on the Rip it I sent to Mike Kelly in Vegas
were very "heavy" on my bat.
Also, I forgot to add that almost all the 400 swings
that Rip it had before Stoneman managed to crack it
came from wet balls.
What's the cardinal rule of bat endurance?
Never hit a heavy, wet ball right ...
cause it will crack it.
I cracked a Combat in 40 swings one time hitting wet balls
and my Rip it had over 400.
That's about 10 to 1 just like I'd rate the Rip it's endurance
vs the Combat or Ultra 2.
Sept. 13, 2007
mad dog
Men's 60
3930 posts
It is time 4 all Organiz's ( both MFG & Softball ), to get their ships in order. 1) Design Balls that will not go over 360 ft in 110 degrees. 2) Get rid of the light bats... No more 24, 25, 26, 27, & 28 oz Bats. ( It may be, that Bats need to go back to 30-34 oz). Recent tests, appears to show that lite Bats has caused BBS by 8%. ( Increased BBS.)

stoney by limiting the bats to over 28 oz is not good.even as a youngen i allways used the lightest bat i could get my hands on.i tried it one time (bat over 30 oz)and went from a pull hitter to going to RF.i don't care for the u-2's at 27 oz,thats why i used the senior combat now.i like the FP bats a lot also as they be nice and light.
stoney not everyone is as big and strong as you are.
Sept. 13, 2007
starburst23
Men's 60
44 posts
Bruce, Just wanted to know your team name is? Like to meet you at a tourney down the line, thanks..Richie
Sept. 13, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Starburst, I play first base for Hollis Appraisals/Combat/Truncell, a 55 Major Plus team based out of Florida. I actually live in Marietta, Ga. I have also played some with Kayson't 55's a Major team that is based out of Ga.
Who do you play for?
Sept. 13, 2007
starburst23
Men's 60
44 posts
Bruce, I think I know who you are , I used to play with Winky on the 55 Faith Major PLus team, I think you're playing with some of them Ed Rose and the group. This year I played for the Cobras and Carolina Allstars in North Carolina.. See you soon maybe.
Sept. 13, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
Right, I play with the "Ed Rose Group". This year Ed has moved up to the 60's.
Sept. 13, 2007
tattooball
604 posts
Stoney,
How you grip the bat is important. It is simple physics. Measure from your shoulder to the end of the bat, then change to the overlap grip. You will see that it will be longer. If you swing the bat the same speed at the hands the tip speed will be faster.
Think back when we were kids and would climb under the merry go round on the play ground. When you pushed it from underneth close to the center the outside would spin so fast it would through the kids off.
Samr thing with a bat. If your hand speed is the same but the bat is 1 inch longer, the tip speed is about 3 mph faster.
Sept. 13, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
KEVIN: I was stating a fact on a light or vice like grip when one holds or swings a bat...

The axises, is another matter. If, a player hangs 1 - 2 fingers off a bat & the kind of grip can make a bat longer. EXAMPLE: Which has a higher Speed? The middle of a wheel or the edge of a tire on a wheel?

A very firm grip will not slow a bat down. ( High Video action shots.) Videos of the hit' machines have proven that by the time a ball is struck by a bat, the ball is already off ones bats, before the wrist can "react". Test studies, ones w/ a vice grip & ones w/ a hinge in the wrist, seem to prove that wrist, do not play a roll in bats speeds.

Seems hard to figure.... Just like the fact that a corked bat will only produce 1 % more distance.... about 4 ft.

MAD DOG: Bat weights, that appears to be a bigger problem than 1st thought . If, the BATTED BALL SPEED has been increased by 8% , due to the lite bats, what should be done? I do not want to c bats weights back up to 36-38 oz.

Again, should 140 # or 180 # players hit 400 ft home runs. Yes, not everone is big & strongs.

How many SENIORS, hit 2-3 times / wk? How many SENIORS, run 20 & 40 yd dashes, 3 plus times a wk? How many SENIORS hit the gym 4- 6 times a wk? How many SENIORS spend 15 mimutes or more 3 - 5 times a wk on flexability??

What about ; 1) Size? 2) Height? 3) Weight- Strength? 4) Talent - Ability? 5) Is will' to work @ the game of SOFTBALL?

Should every ball player be a Home Run hitter?
The STONEMAN....... Best to u'll.
Sept. 14, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Kevin,
When I tried the grip you showed me in Reno
it hit the ball farther with the same effort.
Then I broke my finger and have had to change it back.
I'm off to BP today and will use the 3 finger grip
to get some more bat speed.
You're right on and guys,
Kevin can hit the long ball with just about anyone.
Sept. 14, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
einstein, that is great but I am just wondering. Can he run? Throw? Field?

He might be, I have no idea, but your fascination with home runs would probably make quite a psychological study.
Sept. 14, 2007
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Einstein . Could you describe the three finger grip ? Are you just droppion one finger down with the top hand and gripping with three fingers on the top hand ? Thanks
Sept. 14, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
FOOTHILLS: Some players will drop 2 fingers off the knob. Others will drop one finger & the ring finger, 'rest" on the knob.

HOPE THIS HELPS?? The STONEMAN....
Sept. 14, 2007
Foothills
Men's 55
76 posts
Stoneman . Thanks . I thought they were referring to the top hand . I already drop two fingers off of the bottom and only use three fingers of the top hand . Started doing this a year ago and noticed about 20 more feet .
Sept. 14, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
FOOTHILL: I @ times, drop 2 fingers off the knob of my left hand. I also, drop the 2 lower fingers on my right hand.

In this grip, I put my right hand ring finger between my Index & Middle finger. I then try & use a "PISTOL GRIP" W/ my right Index & Thumb..

Hope this might help....... The STONEMAN......... OUT
Sept. 14, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks, Stoneman.
Couldn't have said it better, myself.
Kevin uses two fingers on the bottom hand
and one on the top and he's right
the bat comes around faster.
Sept. 17, 2007
tattooball
604 posts
I can run a little, throw a little, and field a llittle. I try to only run a little, defenders can't catch balls that land on the other side of the fence.
Oct. 5, 2007
theking00
8 posts
I thought the ANACONDA /COMBAT senior was the best of the hot performance bats I had a chance to hit.
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