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Discussion: Check This Out

Posted Discussion
Sept. 21, 2007
AZPlayingBall
Men's 55
10 posts
Check This Out
http://softballnewsservice.newsvine.com/_news/2007/09/13/961227-national-poll-indicates-many-senior-softball-athletes-do-not-want-rule-changes-when-it-comes-to-high-performance-softball-bats
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
i am sure many don't. Many want to use technology to enable them to do what they might not have been in their 20s and 30s. And then they want to complain that pitchers are in danger.
Sept. 21, 2007
AZPlayingBall
Men's 55
10 posts
?
Sept. 21, 2007
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
AZ, thats a great softball website for those interested in improving their level of play. I think atheletes should strive to reach the next level, not strive to bring the next level down to them. Senior players know the risks and if there is equipment available that will allow them to approach, much less surpass the glory days, so be it.
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
And if I can dunk a basketball using a trampoline, is that an accomplishment? Should anyone be impressed by it?

You reach the "next level" in the gym and at the cages and on the field. Not at the sporting goods store. Didn't Cher once say, prior to her plastic surgery phase, "If all it took was a pill everyone would look good"? Seems like now all it takes is a credit card and anyone can hit the ball hard. NOT how the game was intended to be played.

Admittedly I use an Ultra too because it is legal, but I don't insist on it and certainly acknowledge the effect my checkbook has on my game.
Sept. 21, 2007
AlleninGa
Men's 60
113 posts
Next, you are a living contradiction. Do you even play softball?
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
How so? And yes.
Sept. 21, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4343 posts
Good article, but if your nor playing ASA, who givs a rats ass.
ASA got all this crap started, and they do not try to do what the senior sector wants or needs. Their decision making voting upon, BOD, IMO, is comprised of non playing members or have only used the out dated or vintage equipment they seem to consistantly try to force players to concur to.
They are old school with an old school train of thought.
Stem the tide of good products in order to reap the rewards of forcing mfgs to pay to have their produce ok-ed, to spread their selling power. and at the same time, down size the ball quality to take the other side of the game out of it also.
Bats, Balls, & Rules
That isn't to say they haven't done right, cause they have, just not for seniors.
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
taits, what exactly is it that Seniors need?

The game is the game, we should be able to play it like everyone else does. Now I understand what many Seniors want, to have technology do for them what they couldn't 30 years ago and what they don't want to work hard enough to do now. But that is certainly not a "need".
Sept. 21, 2007
docswear
Men's 55
97 posts
N/G.... I realize you are probably only using the dunking a basketball with a trampoline thing as an extreme example, but have you ever actually dunked a basketball with (or without) a trampoline? At my age (and at my weight and being totally vertically challenged) I have and it is fun.. It was also fun to dunk on the elementary school yard 8 foot rims. It is also fun to still hit a softball a long way on a good day.... I'll still play if I can't use my ultra because it is fun... that is really what this game means to most of us. I see the Einsteins, the Woodies, the PeteD's and the Stonemen at tourneys all the time. They are having fun playing a game they love. Nobody trying to hurt anybody, nobody seriously bad- mouthing anyone ... just everyone having a goodtime competing at whatever level they can compete on and walking away after the game (win or lose) brothers in a game they enjoy...I don't know you... You are probably a good guy just comenting on what you see as a problem or shortcoming in this game ... I don't know what makes you tic and I really don't care...Lots of guys have tried to make some sort of reason out of your negative posts .. I just figure you have the right to be as negative and miserable as you want to be... your business. But if you seriously want to have some sort of impact on senior softball and its rules.... my adivce would be to maybe meet some of those guys you are throwing your stones at and have some positive meaningful discussions rather than always trying to just get that last word in... Just my thoughts.. Maybe you don't care about my thoughts and with that, delete what I have said and move on. I got a little wordy... just wanted to let you know that dunking a basketball using a trampoline at age 58, 6 foot 1 inch and 250lbs (maybe I am fudging a little on that) is actually fun and does give me some sense of accomplishment.

good luck.... docswear
Sept. 21, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4343 posts
TNG,
A need ? Kinda like maybe wanting to live life to the fullest. Live longer & feel young. Maybe a going to a tournament where you know before you pay the entry fee, that you'll be playing more thn two teams? If the numbers aren't there team wise your called and asked if you still want in. If you don't you get your fees back. But all of that has to take place before tracel hotel arangements are made. A real tough thing to anyone to do...Perhaps, using a ball that doesn't go "flat" after some useage, say less than a full game?
Hell, we all want something, even you, like thread control, ??? maybe :>)
But what ever the "need" is, we all have one common thing here, we love the game, even you.
Sept. 21, 2007
hombre
Men's 60
220 posts
Very well said, docswear
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
doc, I agree that it is fun, but I don't refuse to play in a game where a trampoline is not provided (as I have heard guys say they will not play in a game if they cannot use Senior bats) and I would not believe it is any kind of accomplishment to dunk with one (as guys think hitting a home run because of a Senior bat is some sort of achievement.

That is all I am saying. At some point pride had to come into play, or should.
Sept. 21, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
taits, but in this case it is all artificial and contrived. My kids see the kinds of bats we can use and laugh, they don't comprehend why we need or insist on them. And I cannot argue with their logic.

Everything needs to have some context and perspective. Doing something through technology is only an accomplishment for the person who developed the technology, NOT the person benefitting from it.

If I beat up the biggest bully in the schoolyard I did something. If I pull out an AK47 and shoot him, big deal.
Sept. 21, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Gary doesn't Cleveland need some roads fixed or sewers cleaned, river spills complained about, I gotta believe your energy is best served on stuff you can fix rather than try to change senior softball. Dennis Kucinich I hear has openings on his campaign. Is the year the Indians finally give their long suffering fandom a break probably not. How are LeBron James eyes after his laser surgery. Can Ohio State beat a mediocre AA like Michigan (go USC).
Sept. 21, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4343 posts
TGN, Tell that to your kids the next time they drive their car or get into one if not lod enough to drive, same with medicine and any other Tech advance.
SO what, we go on.
I feel, and usually for the better in the long run.
Also lets see if your kids fee the same way when their our age... I doubt it.
Never know though, may be a chip off the ole block.
lol
Sept. 21, 2007
the wood
1076 posts
Doc:
I'm glad of several things with your post...
1) I'd like to see you post more often as I know that you're a very fair person and you really do have some keen insights of the game. Recognize though that this will likely be your last sincere compliment from me for a long time...
2) you have definitely 'fudged' on your weight... that is an appropriate verb, by the way.
3) It's good that you qualified it by saying 'nobody seriously bad-mouthing'...

you really did dunk it? Well, that is a visual image that I'll work hard to eliminate.
BW
Sept. 21, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4343 posts
TNG,
I'm done on that stuff, Western trivia any trivis was better.
Sept. 21, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4343 posts
Docswear,
Any relation to a Larry in the cen valley area?
Sept. 21, 2007
Enviro-Vac
Men's 60
391 posts
I found the article interesting but biased towards ASA. ASA’s self proclamation that they, as an association, are “the Nation’s governing body for the sport” is there opinion and should not be put forth by News Vine as fact. IMO there are many softball associations around that are far more in touch with slow-pitch then ASA.

Perhaps your next poll could include a question on how seniors feel about ASA. Approve or disapprove? I have a feeling the answer will be disapprove.
Sept. 21, 2007
the wood
1076 posts
NG:
I'm told all of the time that the '65 and over' market group is the fastest growing segment of our society. And at the present time, there are over 18,000 people in the US that are 100 or older. But do not interpret this as 'all US citizens are over 65'.
What is the relevance of this to you? You need to stop pretending that 'all senior players INSIST on using high end bats'. It is not even a majority that does. Yes, there are SOME but quit judging everyone else on this basis.
You seem like a smart guy, this concept shouldn't be so difficult for you.
Is everyone in Ohio slow (running speed)? No. But the Gators made it look that way. No, those games (football and basketball) are not indicative of anything other than those 2 teams on those given days.
Bob Woodroof
Sept. 21, 2007
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
I see the bat controversy so often on this board and I think most of the readers are misinterpreting our bat policies. ASA has serious problems all across the country with doctored bats. Go play ASA and you will see all kinds of cheating, fighting, blasting the middle to hurt pitchers and its hurting the game tremendously. We went to an ASA tourney last year where we were eliminated by a team that had 2 painted Ultras and the tournament director and UIC couldn't differtiate legal from illegal.
We have almost eliminated this problem in the Senior associations. By allowing our bats, all teams are on an equal footing. Throw out a ball that plays the way you want the game to play. If seniors use illegal bats they are flirting with banishment and if they arent caught they have gained such a small advantage it isn't worth the gamble.
If we were to go back to ASA bat rules we would have big problems. My hat is off to Terry and Ridge for almost eliminating teams getting an unfair advantage.
One last thought, when the HR is fairly easy and HR's arent limited, the pitchers are not in as much danger. Las Vegas will have hot bats, hot balls and lots of HR's. Who wants a single up the middle that might be an easy double play.
I'm looking forward to seeing everyone in a week in LV and again in Phoenix.
Sept. 22, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
wood, why make things up? Where did I say that "all" do? Ummmmmm, nowhere. But waaaay too many do. Once again, where is the pride?
Sept. 22, 2007
the wood
1076 posts
Gary, you don't know me but those that do will tell you that I'm not in the habit of making things up. My point, which was perhaps stated too strongly, is that when you use an Ultra it is because you are allowed to do so. When the rest of use them, it is because we insist upon it. Those of us that traveled to MN last month (ASA rules) take exceoption to this type of generalization.
When you use an Ultra it doesn't imply any Walter Mitty dreams about being Babe Ruth. But if we do, it is because we 'need to do things we couldn't 30 years ago'. I could hit HRs 30 years ago and could today with or without an Ultra. But I don't perceive HRs as my best approach. But this is just me... I could name 50 guys that feel/do as me. You won't buy into this though.
Come on, you're clearly taking the views of a few and pasting them on the entire group (senior softball players). Sooner or later, you'll have to accept the fact that most of will play under any conditions as long as we can play against the best. But the only real way that you'll accept this is to come out and actually play at this level. You obviously will not take our word for it even though most of us have been doing it for 10 years or more.
No, I do not intend to go back and point out your general statements to you. As long as you recognize that only a few have insisted on Ultras (or the like), I will not argue with you on this point. I use the word 'few' because it does represent only a very small percentage of the total senior softball population. As I have stated in the past, there are 27,000 players with SSWC ID cards. How many of them have insisted on Ultras? We don't really know this but we do know that there are only 500 or os folks that make posts on here. That's roughly 2% of the group and, of this 2%, how many have insisted on Ultras? This is the nature of my issue.
Bob Woodroof
Sept. 22, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
When the "rest" of you do? Never said that. But many of you do. Heck, even the patron saint of this board "einstein" has said on more than one occasion that if he could not use Senior bats he would not play because it would not be fun.

Bob, that is not the view of a few but of many. Heck, just read this board and you can understand that. All? I never said that and you know it. But I know and I think you do to that it is more than a "few". Go run a tourney without Senior bats and see how many teams show up.
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