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Discussion: A Challenge?

Posted Discussion
Sept. 24, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
A Challenge?
As I start to type this post, I notice to the right of the typing window a comment "About this message board" Here's what I see:

"This message board is provided as a means for senior softball players and prospective players to communicate with each other, offer ideas and constructive suggestions for improving our organization and sport."

Here's what I think it means and what we should all be doing all of the time:

Post positive messages all the time on all topics.

Recognize that the ssusa has made this message board available for us free and that they do very little in the way of censoring comments. Don't give them a reason to start censoring more or even take away the board entirely. It's the best one out there, and the only one offered by the assoc. that also offer senior softball programs.

There are only four simple rules here. Obey them.

Don't fight amongst ourselves, even when some of us may feel like we're being singled out unfairly. On the same issue, don't jump on someone's case just because of who they are or because of something they may have said in the past. Remember that it's not always the person on the bottom of the dog pile that gets hurt.

Respect the opinions that aren't the same as yours. If you are only interested in one side of an issue, go read Pravda.

I'm pretty sure that I've gone against some or all of those above things in the past. I won't anymore.

Anyone else care to meet that challenge?
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
I am not sure why every comment has to be "positive", and frankly I am not even sure what positive means in this context.

So are we defining positive as - agreeing with "einstein" and his cronies while the Senior game, particular at the tournament level, crumbles? Just look at the number of teams that actually play tournaments, NOT the number rated to the left. to understand that.

Or can positive be - examing the status quo and revising it for the betterment of the game?
Sept. 24, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
TNG- Not sure which of the several definitions of positive would really apply. I meant it more as making a point on any issue or topic on the merits. And I guess I also meant that personalities and other comments that have nothing to do with issue should probably be left out. I really don't care if anyone agrees with me on anything. But I do prefer to read opposing viewpoints that are presented calmly and logically. I'd likle to think that I might be swayed to the other side more by a smart argument someone makes than by being criticized for being so dumb to have the opinion I have in the first place. Positive certainly doesn't mean it has to agree with anyone in particular, including me, or anything other than logic and facts. Make sense?
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Yes it does. I think I initially try to present things in a good light, though admittedly a different light than many on here want to see and hear, but I realize that after "einstein's" relentless attacks the entire thing and probably me too winds up in the mud with him.
Sept. 24, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4247 posts
TNG,
As for tournament numbers. I think your partially correct, but definately not completly.
I think a lot of the problem is there are tournays set for the same dated all over the US, by almost every assn that throws them.
so what's a team dom pick choose and hope they have competition there. and by that I do not mean just another "equally" ranked team, but 5-6 teams in the same div their in.
I've gone to one major assn tourney recentlly, as some others on here have, where we were the only team in our division, needless to say, we got moved up, it was the only way we could go. lol Do not remember how the other team(s) got moved.
We wern't the only solo team either, playing that way.
that's why teams need to know, in time, and given the option to stay or not go.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
The whole thing is a mess. I "grew up" playing tournaments with 20, 30, or as many as 85 teams, so even 5 or 6 is honestly quite paltry. And certainly not worth a trip halfway across the country for.

I understand what you are saying about conflicts, along with the many other reasons for such low participation. It is time for someone, and I admit I am not quite sure who, to sit down and really look at the issues in and the future of the Senior tournament game.

But to spend that kind of travel money to play against 2 other teams, and even if I win "so what", is just silly at this point.
Sept. 24, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
And to answer your last question. Positive can certainly be criticism, so long as it's presented with suggestions for a solution. I happen to personally dismiss criticisms that aren't coupled that way, but that may just be me. So, yes, positive can certainly disagree with someone or something so long as the end of the discussion has a betterment suggestion present.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
I totally agree conceptually, though in some cases the answer is not easily given but the issue needs to be presented for discussion and the peaceful sharing of ideas.

Or we can just use "einstein's" approach of name-calling and dead horse-beating.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
DG, we get it, we get it. :)
Sept. 24, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4247 posts
TNG,
1st off,I honsetly doubt there were 85 teams all in the same age div\bracket. SSUSA has had more that that number at a given tournament but not playing against each other. for some strange reason i just can't see 40 year olds playing against 70's.
I don't think there is a assn out there that has even close to that in the same div.
I have seen about 30 or so, but can you imaging the length of time it would take to play every one let alone make it it close and come to a end where every team was happy as to whom they played? Not going to happen.
Cost, it sucks big time.
Only a few teams in your div, I'd think hard about it if a mgr or sponsor, real hard and ask the players as well.
Other side of that would be you might learn something from the other teams.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
taits, as I said that was when I was "growing up" in the game. No, certainly not in any Senior event. Not even remotely close.

I understand the softball landscape has changed, and you don't get those numbers today either. But to go from routinely playing in tournaments literally weekly with at least 20 teams to calling 5-6 a good turnout is sad.
Sept. 24, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4247 posts
TNG,
Sorry I missed the totality of your post. Otherwise, agreed here, ie; sad.
I know for me, I go as often as I can, when I can "afford" it, which is actually nill.
SB is my addiction, but it beats the bar scene & gettin in trouble as I did in the mil.
If by some out of thes world chance you might be going to ST G either week, search my post for my email and drop me a note. It's here.
And on that not if your playing 50's as you show on you ID, and your team if going, is short, let me know that as well. I'm looking for a 50's to fill the week with the 55's I'm on.
Sept. 24, 2007
replant
97 posts
This a great post! Tournament teams need to get together and have a tournament web site. they post their schedule and everyone can go to the tournaments that show the most scheduled teams. The way it is now, there is so much money to be made off senior softball, that associations are popping up all over and splintering the teams. The senior teams can accomplish this with a little effort.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
replant, only problem is who is going to be the team that declares first? Somebody has to be able to gamble that others will join them for that idea to work.

The problem, clearly, is too many associations. NO need for so many spreading what few teams there are so thin.
Sept. 24, 2007
replant
97 posts
You said it all. Except like I said, the teams need to work together. Why do you think posting a schedule would be like showing your cards? If teams want to go to a tournament with a lot of teams they can check the web site and enter. You seem to think teams want to keep it a secret.
Sept. 24, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Sorry, I didn't mean to say or imply that at all. But if everyone took that approach, and I don't know that they would, then everyone would be waiting for other teams to sign up first. And in that scenario, who goes first if they are all waiting for a large field to show.
Sept. 24, 2007
replant
97 posts
NTG-- that is what this web site is all about. Sharing ideas and deciding what will work. Posting team tournament schedules will thin the association herd in a hurry.
Sept. 24, 2007
replant
97 posts
Schedules need to be posted early enough so changes can be made. The managers need to work together. Without working together, it will remain the way it is now.
Sept. 25, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4247 posts
replant,
There are at least two web sites that i believer do not hav their own "assn" as such.
I have used both to post tournaments.
openfieldsoftball.net
softballtournaments.com
I would bet the farm (if I was lucky enough to have one) that the chance of getting all the majot assns to link up and have one long ass schedule posted, (even it each one had the same link, which would be nice) will be when hell freezes over.
Good thought and something that should be implimented, but with all striving to keep teams from any other tournsment that they can get into their own, it will never be sgreed on. Too much money involved.
This assn has the best and fastest postings even if change are needed. Can't say I agree with everything they do or do not, like reply to questions, comments & such, but still the best.
Sept. 25, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
So much for the theory or challenge of being a collection of "positive posters" here. An amazing circus of one-trick-ponies we are! lol!
Sept. 25, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Again I ask, does "positive" mean agree with the huddled masses?
Sept. 25, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
And again I try to explain. "Positive" simply means absent negative personal comments directed at any individual or group of same. Gary I disagree with some things you type here and I disagree with some things others type too. But you won't see me insulting any of those people that happen to be on the other side. I'm proposing that it may be mirror-check time for more than a few people here so we can stay focused on the issues instead of muck-raking the people that take a stand on those issues. Understand?
Sept. 25, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Sure I do. And I don't believe I ever say anything insulting first. Just tell "einstein" to shut up.
Sept. 25, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
And to think you were doing so well until those last six words. Damn
Sept. 25, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Why do you guys treat his incessant rants with kid gloves?
Sept. 25, 2007
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Idahoreb has hit the pitch right on the sweet spot (with a generic bat) and he nailed it. Thanks reb. No names here, but I am also fatigued by having to sort through incessant rants, some perople's apparent need to have the last word on everything, other posters piling on in a football late-hit sense, general disrespect unless an opinion happens to favor the Class A/B type players, hijacked threads, and some other things too. And is this a 'positive post'? You bet, I'm positively fed up with ill-mannered posts from equally ill mannered posters. We are so damn lucky to have this softball neighborhood to exchange our thoughts on a game we love. Now all we need is better neighbors.
Sept. 26, 2007
JTS2
Men's 55
88 posts
The main reason Eistein is allowed to rant and rave is because he is not anyomous. When you hide who you are you will not receive any respect no matter what you say or how you say it. TNG you must have a sad life to spend as much time as you do on this site trying to get a rise out of other peoples comments. Don't bother to reply because I will not read any more of your comments.
Sept. 26, 2007
TheNextGeneration
Men's 50
307 posts
Yes, you will.

Most everyone here who matters knows who I am.

And what kind of logic is that? A guy can post stupid, pathetic, incessant rants just as long as he IDs himself? I will assume you speak only for yourself on that one.
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