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Discussion: the umps in Phoenix

Posted Discussion
Oct. 26, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
the umps in Phoenix
I played in the 60s AAA at Papago Park. Even though my team roared to an 0-5 effort, I thought the umps were great. It is the 1st time in 5 worlds that I felt the umps really wanted to be there. I found the ball/strike arc to be consistant and all the umps hustled. We all disagree with a call now and then, but I hope we get the same guys next year.
Oct. 27, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
We played at Caesar Chavez Park with the 65 AAA's and in general you are right. We did have a couple that weren't the greatest. One ump was calling low pitches that weren't low and some high ones that were not that high also.

The other ump either didn't know or wouldn't call quick pitches or illegal delivery. The rules are very clear on how to deliver the ball but I never see it called. If we aren't going to enforce the pitching rules then get rid of them.

Otherwise it was a great tournament.
Oct. 27, 2007
grydog
Men's 70
4 posts
Check this out. Runner on first, ball hit, runner is called out by the field umpire as he tries to advance to second. The home plate umpire over rules the field umpire, calling him safe. two more runs score after that call. We lose by one run. Our tournament is over. Very unusual that judgement calls are over ruled. grydog
Oct. 27, 2007
J R
182 posts
we played 6 games,and i ask the umpires where they were certified ,i got 6 different answers,so 6 different,height of pitches,one umpire said anything over 4ft was ok anything over 8ft, was to high.many walks,and a lot of runs were scored,but out,and safe calls were very good. 60 aa caesar chavez.
Oct. 27, 2007
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
i would like to add that i was an ump in phoenix and i never will go there again because of ray starwalt and terry hennesy sticking it to us umps... we were led to beleive we would do more games than we were assigned b4 we got there... i confronted ray about this and he had no good reason why a hanfful of umps were given 45 to 50 games and all the others had around 30 games in 10 days... i told ray on thurs. nite i would be leaving on sun. after my 12 games for the weekend... on sat. nite ( after doing 7 games ) he and terry came to my room and told me that i would not be paid if i was going to leave them stuck for the rest of the week... i went home the next morning without doint my 2 games for sun... in speaking to another ump during the course of the following week i am under the understanding that many of the umps were very disgruntled about the scheduling... now if any of them had the balls to speak up to these two creeps i don' know..... as for any other tournaments these two guys run i don't know what the quality of umps is going to be like if every ump takes a stand against these two.... i had the oppurtunity to meet alot of nice players there and i promise you guys all the umps try to do the best we can just like you guys do when your playing... remember that we're not perfect, cause if we were we wouldn't put up with alot of the crap we get for the little bit of money that we do get paid...... in ending i want to let ray & terry know that i will keep my promise to them if i don't receive my pay of $160 that i am owed for the 10 games that idid ump on fri. & sat......
Oct. 28, 2007
arizonaken
Men's 65
22 posts
VINNY LV, you mean to tell us you umps were paid $16 a game.
Was that for single umps or two ump games???
Oct. 28, 2007
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
we were paid 19 for two man (which most games were) 24 for one man... we had to pay 25 for shirt and 10 for a hat... they also were charging 20 for a ball bag if u needed one... my understanding is they got the parks for free and also was given 10,000 from the city of phoenix for having the tournament there.....
Oct. 29, 2007
desertdawg
5 posts
VinnyLV..did you go to the tournament to make money, or because you enjoy umpiring?
Oct. 29, 2007
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
i went there with the understanding that i would do alot of games and most importantly make alot of money.... i love doing the games but i'm not traveling 350 miles to say i did games for senior softball, when i could have stayed in vegas and made the same amount of money less games and been home with my family, in my own bed, with home cooked meals evrey day...... so dawg u figure it out if u can ??????????????
Oct. 29, 2007
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Desertdawg, do you think umpires do the games for their own entertainment? Of course he did it to make money. If he didn't he'd be nuts.
Oct. 29, 2007
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
to all

i was one of the umps at papago park i'd like to say it was enjoyable to do these games meet a lot of super people at all 3 parks we did! to all thanks you for all the nice words Monta Lilte sacramento ump
ps also thanks from my brother
Cecil

pss great job to the mass, bombers for getting in 6 games on sunday you just ran out of gas
Oct. 29, 2007
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
hey ken thanx for your input,,, as for softballer and his bro they must have been in the handful with all the games..... i always enjoy umping any games that i do and all the great people that i meet but i'm not going to be someones fool and not make money at what i think i'm pretty damn good at... it's a shame senior softball lost a pretty good ump that knows exactly what he's doing... you can ask any of the players that i have done games for in the vegas tourny... i'm the bald ump with the tail.....
Oct. 29, 2007
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Vinny, You were a disgrace this weekend. You aren't what senior softball needs. It was good to see you go. You forgot to mention a security guard had to handle you. Hats off to SS USA for weeding out the bad apples. You've got a lot of nerve going on here forcing someone to "Tell the truth". How many times have we seen tournament officials supporting a horrible umpire. Not this time.
Oct. 29, 2007
2awesom
Men's 50
296 posts
this was a most enjoyable post to read, so don't stop now
please tell me more...
so who was wrong the umpire or the ssusa directors?
Oct. 29, 2007
desertdawg
5 posts
I would conted that if he went with the purpose of making money, he should leave umpiring and get a better paying job. Its GREAT to be compensated for umpiring, but if its a JOB...you wont do a good job....and without going into details, I think that shows in this case.....
Oct. 29, 2007
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
I do it for the love of the game.. if i'm not ask to play on a weekend i ump BECAUE I LOVE IT!

as far as vnny lv goes i don't know what happened but i sure know i didn't get as many as hes saying!

did anyone else get ripped off by the premier inn?
i know of 3 phones and some other stuff! i was lucky i got my stuff back!
MONTA LITLE
Oct. 29, 2007
VINNY LV
Men's 50
178 posts
lets set the record straight.... there was no security involved in this matter( don't know where that came from) i chose to leave on my own after the two creeps tried to shanghai me into staying.... i do this as a hobby to make xtra money to supplement my very wealthy pension ..... the reason i umpire is for the love of the game because i've seen plenty of bad ones in my thirty years of playing..... i also like to be compensated to put up with some of the crybabies that are out there playing and don't have the guts to put on the uniform and try doing the job we do..... as far as i'm concerned the directors tried to take care of their boys..... like i said previously some of the guys were bitching but i'll bet they didn't go to the directors,, instead they bitched amongst themselves about the scheduling... as for your details dawg ,,you should come out some time and catch my act on the field and then you can criticize...
Oct. 29, 2007
green rocket
51 posts
Vinny LV, even though you might have a ligitimate gripe. this is something that needs to be taken up by you and the UIC or Terry PERSONALLY. To use this forum as a crying towel is totally unprofessional. The ball players do not care how much money you make, only for you to call a fair game.

I know if you did this same thing to any of the associations that you work for, you would be out of a job. Also you praise compliments to yourself, another no-no.

I always judged myself by the compliements I get from the ballplayers after the game and from others, including Ray and Terry, not from how I view my umpring skills.

If your going to leave a tournament early, you make those plans up and forthright, not a knee jerk reaction after the fact. You are honored to do the games your assigned, even if they were less than you expected. I have worked for Ray and Terry many times and much longer that you ever will, so my experience tells me that they are fair as can be.

Obviously you have not worked any SSUSA or ISA or else you would of had your dues/uniform and gear already purchased months ago. If you never worked an ASA/USSSA sanctioned tournament these costs would be there BEFORE YOU WORKED. What's the difference?

Sometimes things happen in tournament. Teams drop out. Locations change. Do you think you were the only umpire that had to travel to get there? Many others traveled a lot futher that you.
Oct. 29, 2007
desertdawg
5 posts
Without a doubt there are things that go wrong in tournaments....alwsya have been, always will....I just take issue with the "take my ball and go home" attitude...and then the spraying of it all over a message board. If I run into an issue like that, I COMPLETE MY ASSIGNMENT...and dont go back.

Also...If its such a wealthy pension...why is money such an issue.... like I said..its important to be paid...but why NOT sit down and talk to someone about it instead of making such a fuss that other umpires who have never even met you heard about it miles away?
Oct. 29, 2007
bogie
Men's 55
154 posts
We played at Mountain View park. While not as fancy as Papago, and Rose Moffard, which I visited and watched a few games, it was a pleasant park and served it purpose well. Water was provided and the park staff was great. Fields were worked on between games and watered. As far as the umping here, I thought the guys did a fine job. They were friendly and professional. As a member of Roberts 50 major, we wanted to congratulate the Windy City and FanGrabbers for an awesome tourney....as well as Vancover Merchants who came from behind by 8, with 1 out in the bottom fo the 7th to beat us. Also to a fine Sweets team, who knocked us out of the tourney. Sweets 2 big men are in the top tier of the finest power hitters in all of senior softball. We enjoyed the week and feel that Phoenix is a fine venue for the world championships.
Ken Van Bogaert
Roberts 50 major
Oct. 29, 2007
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
My last post here. There were many players umpiring this weekend. Guys like the Litles, Tim Reid, Rudy R. and the list could go on. They love the game and always hustle and give it their best. Vinny, you aren't one of those. You were weeded out and don"t say security wasn't involved. You made threats and were a personal disgrace. You shared a ride to Phoenix and even left your partner without a way to get home. I was there for the whole 11 days and watched a whole lot of games. I saw guys working hard and it wasn't for $19 a game, it was the love of competition. Vinny, you need to find another hobby, umpiring is not for you and the SS USA officials are to be commended for sending you home and it wasn't a pretty sight. When a program works so hard for a full year to put on an event of this magnitude, **** happens. VINNY, You were the ****. Thank you Terry, Dowells, Ruth's and a host of others who put on THE PREMIER EVENT of Senior Softball. Thank you for surgically removing a cancer that players have no way to remove..
Oct. 29, 2007
desertdawg
5 posts
I wouldnt go as far as calling someone a piece of shit...thats harsh, and ruins your point. I just think he didnt act in his own (or anyone elses) best interest last weekend.
Oct. 30, 2007
TGIII
Men's 60
92 posts
Our team had the good fortune to play at Papago Sports Complex. We played eleven games, so we got to see most of the umpires throughout the tournament. For myself, I found every umpire consistent in their calls, easy to talk to when you had a question, and conducted themselves professionally. My hats off to them and want to say thank you for a job well done. I also want to say thank you to both of the Co-Tournament Directors assigned to Papago. We had a concern early Sunday morning regarding field conditions and they responded quickly to mitigate the problem. Both Directors did an excellent job in quickly setting up the elimination bracket board and posting the schedule in a timely manner. Thank you for a great tournament and congratulations to who ever won the 50 AAA Championship, you definately earned it.

Kevin Evans, Mgr. Top Gun III
Oct. 31, 2007
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
612 posts
Our team played at Rose Mofford. The umpiring for the most part was good. Illegal pitches were called, and no one was giving too high or low an arch. A couple of times there was a little problem with the umpire getting the right position mostly due to the differences in senior scoring. Some of the pairs of umpires had never worked together before, and sometimes that detracted a little from their ability to work together as the umpires came from many places. The fields were wonderful as usual.

Vinny, you may have issues, but I think that you are using the wrong forum here. I have worked for Terry in three national tournaments and was treated fairly in all respects. Also remember that there is no such thing as a good umpire, and you are only as good as your last bad call. For those who have not umpired, there is a reward to officiating a national tournament that goes beyond money. If I had to rely on umpiring to pay my bills, I would be in the wrong business. I enjoy it, or I would not do it. Now I may be in the minority on this as I get very upset about umpires that do not look like they are happy to be there or make it known that they are only there for the money. If I could still play like when I was younger, I would probably be doing that instead, but there are not any older gal leagues here, very few women's leagues, and I am not playing against young guys in coed. Of course the older I get the better I was...
Oct. 31, 2007
audieh
Men's 60
242 posts
The Hollis 55 Major Plus played at Rose Mofford and we thought it was a very well run tournament. All of our games were on time, the fields were excellent and worked between games, the facilites including bathrooms and concessions were fantastic. The dugouts had air conditioners and water coolers. Parking was nearby with plenty of spaces.

I felt the umpires were top notch. They listened to appeals and made the correct calls almost without fail. Now, I have several type A personalities that play on our team and they will give an umpire lip during a game. But, to a man, after the heat of the "battle", will admit they did a good job.

Put hundreds of teams, thousands of players together, and you will always get 1% to 2% that disagree with everything. Such is the nature of man. I prefer to look at the big picture and from my very limited point of view want to give a BIG ATTA BOY for a well run tournament. We'll be back!
Nov. 2, 2007
tcadmw1
Men's 55
62 posts
Only saw the umpires at Rose Mofford and all of them we had were very consistent and friendly, and the ones we had on Sunday were excellent. They didn't miss a call as far as I was concerned. You have lots of plays where someone disagrees with a call but that always happens at the Major and Major+ level. Just the nature of the beast I guess. Very good job gentlemen in green!
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