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Discussion: Has the role of the Ultra 2 changed????

Posted Discussion
Oct. 28, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Has the role of the Ultra 2 changed????
As you all know, I am a supporter of the U2 and think it makes the game exciting. I usually play catcher and watch every batter swing. I believe Phoenix 60 AAA really confirmed something I have noticed all year. Less and less hitters are swinging for the parking lot. I think after years of of hitting 280' to 290' outs, players are swinging more to place the ball and get singles than to just wack the ball. I am also strongly thinking that the U2 is more important to the singles hitters than the HR guys. The U2 places just enough fear in the outfielders (most teams) to play a little deeper and leaves more room to drop one in. In constrast to my previous sentence, I did see a few of the teams play their outfielders shallower than I have ever seen. I think their thought process might have been, hey cut off the singles and if we get burned, we get burned. Another U2 item I have noticed is with the ball coming off the bat a little faster, I see a lot more double plays than I remember in the aluminum and wood days.
Oct. 28, 2007
T-REX
64 posts
The issues of the ultra2 have come up before on here and other sites and I have made my feelings known that I am Not a fan of them.Actually they are only legal in one association, as to my knowledge which means it is illegal in all others...why would that be, is it a conspiracy? Is it a coincident that the ultra has its own organization? It is not the bat that makes the game exciting,it is the players and the plays they make at the plate and in the field.Its about fair play ,sportsmanship and the friendships we make along the way.The overall health not wealth of the game in general would benefit greatly if players realized you don't need an edge,but its staus quo,they're using them so we will as well.When the Ultra 2 first came out I was playing in a open age ,non-roster ,money tourney here in Maryland,I was catching ,the leadoff hitter was on second,a former minor baseball player,the hitter it a line drive on the SS side of second,he took one step and the ball exploded his knee completely,I have only seen two other injuries worse then that in 51 years of playing baseball and softball neither was caused by a batted ball,his knee was gone....I quess if he was faster,he'd be walking without a limp at 21,for the rest of his life..the ultra 2 is an accident waiting to happen...common sense has to enter into the equation eventually...or one would only hope so!
Oct. 29, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I pitched at Phoenix in the 65AAA div I think that it was all Ultra II's with a few Worth 510's and my Mutant and one Mayhem that I seen.

Your right there weren't many home runs but a lot of gap shots and middle shots.

I did get hit off the ankle for the first time this year off an Ultra II. Fortunately nothing broke but I have a nasty gash just above my ankle and I was able to continue to play.

I don't blame the Ultra's for me getting hit though it is the fact that there are no middle fielders. If there was a middle fielder I would have just lifted my leg and let it go through to him.

With all the talk about safety I don't see what the resistance is to having an 11th player in the middle in the younger divisions.
Oct. 29, 2007
FreshFish
32 posts
I have to agree on the UII...If your a HR hitter only windshields have to worry but if your a line drive hitter everybody has to worry !
Oct. 29, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
t-rex,
National Association of Softball Players (NASP). NASP or better known as the Huntsman Games, allows them as well.
ASA (FOR SENIOR TOURNAMENTS ONLY) in our area also allows them.
Oct. 29, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
T-Rex, I am a proponent of the U2 in senior games. The allowability of them tends to keep the shaved/painted bats at home. An example of this is the ISF a year ago. There were guys hitting "new" Freaks that were blasting the ball over 400'. I'm sure there will be more "new" bats next year. (In 2008 they will have to read Freak 98 as the Freak won't be leagal in ASA after Jan 1)
Other senior associations that allow the U2 are Las Vegas Senior Softball Assoc, ISA, Softball Players Assoc and The Florida Half Century assoc. I am assuming that you know that the SSUSA allows it.
Taits, when looking at the "comparison of association rules" I see that the Huntsman games doesn't allow the U2. It also said that ISA doesn't , although I remember using them a year ago in St. Louis.
As for leveling out you swing and trying to hit the holes with the U2, not me. In Vegas I really enjoyed seeing how far everyone could hit one. My batting average didn't suffer with my hr swing.
Oct. 29, 2007
taits
Men's 65
4315 posts
BruceinGa:
Was good to meet you in Vegas,
Huntsman has allowed the U-2 for 3 yrs now.
No longer is an ISA ASSN.
Their now part of NASP.

Side note: Seniors still do the dirty, 3 were taken out the the games there.
Oct. 29, 2007
T-REX
64 posts
Thanks for the info on the associations,but I did notice that they are senior oriented. I don't have a problem with the bat,I have used it myself,because you fight fire with fire,but lets be honest in our deliberations,many top level senior players now, were not major or top level players in there youth.In other words theres a huge difference in the talent,in the field as well as at bat,should the bat be an equalizer?.You throw me outside I wouldn't purposely try to drill the pitcher,some of us have to work after the weekend,my bat control is better then that and if I never hit another tater I have hit my share ,but I was taught to hit it hard,period.When you take a hot bat,bad infields and poor lights,its a recipe for disaster.As far as altered bats,ask yourself this,if you have to cheat to win your only cheating yourself.. you play because you love to play the game,ask Donnie Clatterbaugh,nobody loves the game more then him...I bet he's NOT swinging an ultra ..its the singer not the song~!
Oct. 30, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
T-Rex, you kind of lost me. I'll try to respond. I was a hr hitter in the 70's and 80's, receiving many startled looks from the Howard's and Steele's players after I hit one. I don't hit at pitchers, outside pitch or not. I wasn't the one to hit 3 shots up the middle in Vegas, one hitting a pitcher. One more thing, Donnie used the Worth Launch in Vegas.
Best of luck to ya.
I'm done.
Oct. 30, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2617 posts
After thinking about my last post I figured that I probably lost you too. Sorry.
The use of the U2 is the only way to eliminate/control the use of shaved/painted bats is to allow the U2.
If someone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.
Oct. 30, 2007
T-REX
64 posts
hey BruceinGa...the U2 isn't the way to eliminate/control the use of altered or illegal bats,the assoications need to put the hammer down period...but we both know its not gonna happen! stay warm and be cool~
Oct. 30, 2007
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Don't forget all the local leagues that allow the U2. We do here in Houston. I know Willie in SanAtonio does along with the ones in Rockport and Victoria in the tournaments they run. Most likely quite a few in different areas also. So the U2 is used much more then you might think. We just limit the ball to 44/375 and have no problems with it. And our local leagues/tournaments has plenty of Major Plus, Major players in them.
Just my two cents as usual.
GT Houston, Tx
Oct. 30, 2007
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Bruce and T,
Clatter was using that new worth bat when he hit a ball that broke a bone in my arm in Vegas but it was because
I wasn't anticiupating the ball coming through the box.
That was really on me.
Now I know Clatterr can hit the ball as hard as anyone
and I know there's a bit af legend there that I don't want to disturb
but if I'm pasying attention like I should have been
I snag that ball and Clatter walks back to the bench
0 for 1.
The other balls through the middle you referred to Bruce
were statement balls having to do with what had already
taken place in their respective games.
All to say I don't favor changing the bats but let the rules
be changed if we want to protect the pitcher and as per many prior conversations that can easily be done
in a variety of ways.
Having a good bat is my insurance
that bad/inferior balls won't ruin the thrill
of hitting hard. well and long and my investment in
a fun weekend playing softball.
Oct. 30, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
T-Rex hammer on what that is the $64,000 question. I had a local TD ask me to give an opinion on a torunament and I mentioned that the bats were becoming problematic. (young tournament) Maniacs being passed down, when a HR was needed a specific bat would show up, Easton extended (ASA) sounding like glass, it was epidemic. The opinion was puzzled looks I could offer no advice and the TD had none to give. I did offer this pick someone anyone and make an example out of them, even that has logistical issues. Most of the big tournaments in the west have teams from all over, by the time you get results their gone and with open rosters how do you follow up and issue a suspension. As I mentioned to the TD someone will get hurt the police will be called and the altered bat will be seen as a weapon since it was altered beyond manufacturing specs. Just a matter of time. You will have the city, county, TD and player sued. This is Pandoras box waiting to be opened.
Oct. 30, 2007
Lecak
Men's 55
1005 posts
T-Rex this was not a senior tournament or senior league response. My limited experience with the seniors is that altered equipment is not a major issue again very limited sample and my opinion only. Sorry for the double post wanted to clarify.
Oct. 30, 2007
T-REX
64 posts
Hey Einstein...sorry to hear about your arm,when we had wars against each other ,you caught every freaking thing hit,you must be getting old my friend,ya gotta learn to duck or get the hell out of the way ~ Ultra 2's are illegal on any level in all associations here in Maryland and all levels,due to safety concerns.I also don't think that altered bats are a problem in senior ball,but seriously if they were the TD's wouldn't have a clue ,the opposing players would,especially when its passed down thur the lineup and sounds and reacts differently.The fact remains that if the question keeps rising about the bats, it possibly indicates a problem or raises some concerns which is eactly what this forum is intended to do..I still vote NO...if I have a vote and I haven't heard a compelling argument as to why I should change my mind,I'm still wearing a dent on my calf from a bad hop...3 years ago at least now it doesn't hurt !
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