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Discussion: Does the weight of the bat matter?

Posted Discussion
Dec. 21, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
Does the weight of the bat matter?
I posted this on the Mohr Board with little response. Let me know what you think.

For all of you physicists out there, I\'ve been wondering. Some, if not most balanced bats, have a rod in the handle. Take the Miken line, Freak, Feak Plus(not really balanced). I\'m not sure about the later models. These bats begin life as a 26oz bat. A one ounce rod is added in the handle to make it a 27oz bat, a 2 oz rod to make it a 28 oz bat etc.
So, if I have a 26 oz bat and want it to swing like a 28 oz bat can I just add a 2 oz weight to my batting glove? There may be a difference depending on where on my glove I add the weight, on the back or maybe even along my index finger. I realize that I could add 2 ounces of lead tape to the handle near the knob and would accomplish the same results but this would be considered altering the bat.
Now, if what I am saying is correct, how will the 2 ounces in my batting glove cause the ball to travel any further than without the extra weight on the bat itself? Do your hands become part of the bat????
I understand that with an enloaded bat all of this is null and void. I\'m just talking about a balanced bat or a bat where the total weight is determined by the weight in the handle.
Any ideas? Trumpball, you probably will have a good answer.
Dec. 21, 2007
tattooball
602 posts
The best way to determine what weight bat is correct for you is start out heavy. First get loose, swing the heaviest bat that you think you can swing. Take 15 good swings with the heavy bat and do the same getting lighter. You will find a bat that you hit the farthest and hardest. Then go up 1 ounce and take some extended BP. You will learn to swing the heavier bat better, you will also find that the distance and consistancy will improve.
Simply put the most weight you can swing at the same speed will increase distance and consistancy, also you will find that the mis-hits are far less with a heavier bat.
People always say that they get tired and need a lighter bat for tourny's, a heavier bat will allow you get loose quicker duing BP and after all we are only getting 20-25 swings per weekend. Less swings in BP more power during the game. As we get older we think we need more BP to get loose, no one should take more than 15-20 swings to get loose. Your game will improve.

Happy Holidays from all of us at Anaconda sports, stay safe and lets look forward to another great year of softball.

Kevin Schullstrom
Dec. 21, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
Thanks for your reply Kevin. It still isn't clear to me how one bat that weighs 30 ounces (the bat weighs 26 ounces and it has a 4 ounce rod in the handle) would propel the ball further than a 26 oz bat without a rod. Surely the 4 ounces should slow your swing down somewhat. It is clear to me that an endloaded bat would give more distance.
If it is true that the 30 oz bat would give more distance, would using a 26 oz bat with a batting glove that weighs 4 ounces be any different?
Dec. 21, 2007
jolly52
Men's 55
49 posts
I am not an expert in any way... but all bat shells are not created equally and may vary fron 1/4 oz to a 1oz so rods are differn't in size to alow for the disired wieght, say a 30 oz may have a 3" to 5" rod, so the rods match with the wieght of the shell and finished with a rod to the desired oz. Next time you break a U2 look at the rod and compare it with another at the same wieght most will vary in length.
Adding wieght to the end of the bat would not accomplish what you want as wieght with a rod is carried thru the entire handle evenly as this is why the use a rod in the center of the knob, might be able to remove the 26 oz rod and slide in another one from a 28oz donor bat as long as this is legal and dosen't fall under altering rules.
jmo
Dec. 21, 2007
tattooball
602 posts
Weight is weight, even though more may be in the handle it is still 24 inches from your chest. The leverage is from the bat being in motion. The more weight you put in motion the better it will stay in motion. It is better to have more weight in the end and you may have to drop down 1 ounce to find the right weight for an endload. Still the more weight that is put in motion the better it will stay in motion.
If you swing a 26 oz bat at 85 the after contact speed may only be 65, meanig during the contact period you are losing 20mph. You may swing a 28 el at 80 but the loss at contact is only 15 mph all things are equal but the bat will stay on an even plane and your consistancy will be better. The more you get used to swinging the heavier bat you will learn to carry the speed through the zone and your speed may only drop 10 mph therefore you will increase you speed by 5mph.
Dec. 21, 2007
Gary33
142 posts
Hey, Trumpball what does Combat have in store for the new year? I swing the 10" barrel red senior Combat 26 ounce. Would you recommend going to a 28 or a 30. Thanks Gary
Dec. 22, 2007
tattooball
602 posts
I think everyone can go up 1 oz and most could go up 2 oz's. If you are swinging the 10 inch the bat swings much easier and I would imagine 2 oz's would be the way to go. When we first put the 10 inch bat out I had only 1 in reno. A player from the boaz team by the name of Bill McDaniels who normally swung a 26 oz switched to my 28 demo and has continued to swing the 28 el with great sucess.
Dec. 22, 2007
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Hi Bruce

I don't know much about all the formulas and physics some of the guys post on this site. I do know the following. I have been swinging a U2 since it first came out. I can't get a ball to the warning track with a 27 or 28 oz. I can hit around 20 or so Hrs a season with a 29 oz. At 64 yrs. old now, I don't have the total body strength I had 3 years ago. I do weight train 6 days a week and will continue to use a 29 as long as I can feel good bat speed. Now, to confuse this question some more, I can't hit a HR with a 30 oz. I have tried. I guess my body is geared into a 29.
Dec. 22, 2007
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
--------------------------------|------------------------------------------------
b 100| * * * * | * * * * *
a 90| * ball speed |
t 80|- * |
70| * - |
s 60| * - |
p 50| * - |
e 40| * | -
e 30| * | -
d 20| * | -
10|* 32oz weight=> | for max ball distance
0--------------------------------------|------------------------------------------
10oz 20oz 30oz 40oz 50
bat weight=====>


Batted ball speed is what a player wants to maximize in finding the ideal bat weight that generates the greatest
batted ball distance. The 3-axis graph study above shows that the ideal bat weight is between 32oz and 33oz and the batted ball speed is a wash with increasing weight up to 50 ounces.

As we all know the standard softball equipment rules allow a maximum of a 30oz bat. As a result I would say that to
hit your longest flies use a 30oz stick.

Study by: Physics and Acoustics of Baseball & Softball Bats
Daniel A. Russell author.

Post by bashbro1 (Ruth 60's Major Plus Kent, WA)
Dec. 23, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
Bashbro, here's another study by Daniel Russell that determines recommended bat weight
:
Player Recommended Bat Weight (oz)

Major League Baseball Height/3 + 7
Amateur Baseball Height/3 + 6
Fast Pitch Softball Height/7 + 20
Slow Pitch Softball Weight/115 + 24
Junior League Baseball (13-17 yrs) Height/3 + 1
Little League Baseball (11-12 yrs) Weight/18 + 16
Little League Baseball (9-10 yrs) Height/3 + 4
Little League Baseball (7-8 yrs) Age*2 + 4

Why is there so much difference from what you've found? I only calucalted the slowpitch data for me.
Here is the link to the study:
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/batw8.html
Dec. 23, 2007
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Thanks for the post response BruceInGa! Yes, I did see what you found as a “rules of thumb” and were derived from the exact same data readings that I posted and are from the exact same study; so we are on the “same page” so to speak.

In my personal opinion, I believe that the “rules of thumb” that were derived for slo-pitch are flawed. I also don’t like the way the data interchanges the “size” parameter that in some case uses “height” and in other cases uses “weight”. Slo-pitch uses “weight” and MLB uses a player’s “height”.

I would intuitively think that height (i.e. longer arms) would be related more to the “length” of a bat a player should use and body weight would be a better indicator of the “mass” of the bat to use. Now do understand that I did take physics “101” @ the University of Washington back in 1964 so that does make me sort of an expert! LOL

Findings:
I quickly crunched the numbers using the algorithms provided for slow-pitch-softball (e.g. lbs/115 + 24) and baseball (e.g. ht/3 + 7) and returned these results sets:

Algorithm =lb/115 +24
Slo-Pitch:

300lbs Man should use a-> 26.6oz
275lbs Man should use a-> 26.4oz
250lbs Man should use a-> 26.2oz
225lbs Man should use a-> 26.0oz
200lbs Man should use a-> 25.7oz
175lbs Man should use a-> 25.5oz
150lbs Man should use a-> 25.3oz

Algorithm =ht/3 +7 (I used inches in the equations)
MLB:

6'2" 31.6oz
6'1" 31.3oz
6'0" 31.0oz
5'11" 30.6oz
5'10" 30.3oz
5'9" 30.0oz
5'8" 29.7oz
5'6" 29.3oz

The MLB results are closer to what I think they should be and that a 30oz bat will yield the optimal results in slo-pitch softball.

We are attempting to maximize the Kinetic Energy from the standard formula k= 1/2mass x Velocity squared!
From the slo-pitch algorithm it indicates that a 300lb man should use a 26.6oz and a 150lb man who is say half the “size” of a 300lb man’s size should optimally use a 25.3oz; a bat mass that is only 1.3oz lighter? Also using this algorithm the range of bats a manufacture should make would seem to be between 25oz and 27oz and not 26oz – 30oz range.

I personally know for a fact that my batted-ball-speed is much greater using a 30oz bat than a 26oz. I’ve had my bbs measured by some of my off-duty Boeing engineers buddies @ the Russell Road Softball complex two summers ago. In my case, my bat speed did slow down from a 26oz to a 30oz but ‘k’ was the greatest using a 30oz bat, which delivers the blow for the greater batted-ball-speed and then potentially longer big flies.

Bashbro1 (Ruth 60’s M+, playing out of Kent, Washington and we’re looking for a few good men to round out our 2008 ball club)
Dec. 23, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I don't know about all the formula etc. I just know I hit better and longer with a 30 oz bat than I do with a 28 oz one.

The last 3 yrs I bought 28 oz bats and work out with them all winter and come game time in spring I end up selling them and getting 30 oz bats.

I am 75 and all logic says I should drop down to a 28 oz but I just feel more comfortable with the 30 oz.

I am now trying a 28.5 oz JHMUT120 and we will see how that works out.
Dec. 23, 2007
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2582 posts
Interesting data here. Physics is the only class in college that I received an A. :)
I have never has my bat speed checked by a radar gun. In the last 5 years I have used a 30oz bat, sometimes moving to a 29 or 28. I have only swung a 27 a couple of times. Maybe I should give it or even a 26 a try,
Dec. 23, 2007
STONEMAN
Men's 50
535 posts
GEORGIA PEACH: Stay w/ the 29 or 30 oz. bats. In "The Physics of Baseball", Dr. Adair & others have done many test on bat speed; best bat weigh; etc.

As for Bat Speed. a 20 oz Bat. A ball will travel the farest, if, all things r right, w/ a 40 oz Bat.

Dr Larry Noble, retired from K.S.U., in the 80's did a great deal of reseach on Bats. M.O.I, is important. Larry (& the NCAA), have the pattern on weigh in Bats Knob.

Weigh, in ones hands will be E-Zer to swing, than weigh @ the end of a ball. The closer the load, the less force is required to move (swing) an object.

End Loaded Bats, produce move M.O.I., which will cause the Bats' "head" to follow thru @ a higher Bat Speed. B & N, has done studies, that shows how much a Bat slows down once a Ball has been hit. Bat Speed, after contact is very important.....

Does the Bat, slow down to 76 MPH or 74 MPH or 69 MPH!

This concept, is one of Natures Laws. An object @ rest & an object that is already moving. Example: When a 3 ton truck, hits a 1 ton car. The truck will win.

But, a 1 ton car, travel' @ 100 MPH, hits a 3 ton truck, that is not moving. Laws of Physics.

C U in Feb, bring the P.B. & J; I'll have the Jack.

The STONEMAN
Dec. 24, 2007
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Great post STONEMAN from bashbro1, you've done your homework well! Sounds like quite a few of us old farts can still remember our physics classes taken @ some of the more esteemed universities in the nation long ago and we all got 'A's'!
Does anyone dare changing this Subject Title from "Does the 'weight' matter" to "Does the “SIZE matter” and starting a brand new post? LOL


bashbro1 (Ruth 60's M+ Kent, WA)
Dec. 24, 2007
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
In all these formula's etc where is the human factor taken into account. Everyone is different so how do you apply a hard formula to a human body.
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