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Discussion: What Would You Change in Senior Softball-Part II

Posted Discussion
Jan. 9, 2008
Rod Sweet
Men's 70
53 posts
What Would You Change in Senior Softball-Part II
I noticed most would like to see a 1 and 1 count, and that most post are from the earlier age brackets. I play in the 70's and are thinking is why speed the game up. Where the hell are we going !!! In any age bracket we are taking a chance that this could be our last game, so lets take it nice and easy and really enjoy the game. This is similar to a lot of drivers, always in a hurry to get to the next light.
Jan. 9, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4394 posts
Rod. the 1-1 doesn't speed it up to any realistic time benefit. Most time wasted is, like was mentioned, ball warm ups between innings and leaving and returning to the field.
Limit the throwing the ball around or warm up to the first inning and 5 pitches. Pitcher can get more if fast, while fielders are taking their positions.
Warm ups could easily be done before games at most parks, but some parks do not have areas for that... an allowance for these parks might be give two innings for warn ups....
Times allowed are too short to begin with anyway. We pay for a game, all inclusive, and should get the full 7 innings unless there is a mercy rule.
Jan. 9, 2008
JRD
Men's 60
11 posts
Rod-I agree with you , where are we going in such a hurry? I played with both the 1 and 1 and the full count last year and much preferr the full count. As Tait said, most time is wasted in between innings. What we do to speed up the game but yet stay loose, is have several players take a ball out and quickly toss it around two or three times. That keeps us loose but yet does not slow down the game. At any rate, the only thing I would really change is making sure the integrety of the game is maintained and eliminate or punish those that try to cheat. The comradiry (spelling?) and the participation are what is really important at this stage of the game.
Jan. 9, 2008
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
Since this is a summit involving all Senior Softball Organizations, I would like to see everyone use the same or similar rules. For instance in our league we use the mats, 1-1 count and USSSA rules. When we go to tournaments, it is the mats that seem to pose problems for the first few games. If the tournament fields have no mats our pitchers have to alter their whole delivery and our batters have to alter their stance at the plate. If the rules are different and the arc of the pitch is different, that's another adjustment. We have all been playing long enough to know how to make these adjustments, but until these adjustments can be made, you can find yourself down real quick. Also I just do not like the overtime rule of putting the last batter of the previous inning on second to start the inning. It may make sense to most of you, but me personally I don't like it!
Jan. 9, 2008
terryspears
Men's 55
38 posts
As a firstbaseman I always take a ball out for the infielders because when I was a shortstop/third baseman I needed those couple of throws especially in the late innings. However if two infielders brought out balls and got in two or three throws it would accomplish the same thing, and players could decide for themselves if they really need it.
Jan. 9, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4394 posts
My post was about saving time, not necessarily what i'd prefer.
I have played u-trip a lot and have not played a game without there being a mat.
Perhaps it's a regional thing like most assn's have to differentiate between the masses but I posted a note many moons ago about getting rules that are more consistent for each other.
Jan. 9, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
as one of the umps i say
after the first inning no warm up pitches, no infield and get the guys on the field this should help getting more innings in!

hey joe
now who would ump these umlimited games in the uppers at 24.00 or 19.00 a game? with no time limit!!!!!
hows the arm?
monta
Jan. 9, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4394 posts
Softballer, we'll only have no time limits for your games...lol
Hope to see ya 'round.
Jan. 9, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Mont,
I hadn't thought about the umpires, getting hosed
by games going longer.
That would mean less games/pay for the umps,
I don't favor unlimited time unless the umps
are with it.

Thanks for asking about my arm.
I'm about 85 per cent back.
Rehab is slow and steady and I look forward
to seeing you soon.
Jan. 9, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
thanks guys
hoping to see you giuys out there too!


hey taits what asa bat you got 4 sale now?
Jan. 9, 2008
curty
Men's 60
108 posts
it sems that the most "lost" time appears between innings and with courtesy runners. Allowing outfielders to throw between innings is time wasted, and as an infielder, after the first or maybe 2 nd inning I no longer need a warm up throw, and if playing in the 3rd or more games in a day my arm is beginning to get tired and sore so I usually decline anyway. At this age , hustle becomes relative to over all conditioning. Allowing outfielders to edge towards there respective positions after batting helps a little as it's usually the farthest away guy is the last one ready. This is not generally allowed, as umps want players in the dug out at all times. Pitchers should be taking any extra warm ups on the side line to help speed things up also.
Jan. 9, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
the reason i make them stand in the dug out is for safety! if a lady can sue over a cup of coffee know its hot someone will sue us as umps for being hit by a batted ball or a bat breaking!
come down to hustle on and off!
Jan. 9, 2008
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
421 posts
Why should it take the team at bat any longer to get on the field than it takes the team in the field to get off? Nobody should have to edge toward his position to accomplish that.

How about a 15 second time limit to insert a courtesy runner. After 15 seconds, or after the first pitch is thrown to the next batter, a courtesy runner could not be used except in event of injury (i.e., if you're going to use a courtesy runner for a batter, you must insert the runner immediately when the batter reaches base).

Also, enforce the rule about having the next batter in the on-deck circle. The next batter should be ready to hit as soon as time is called after the previous batter (this means, batting gloves on, practice swings taken, meditating done, crotch adjusted, etc.)
Jan. 9, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4394 posts
It's the mgr\coach's responsibility to have the DR ready to go in.
I've played a lot of tourneys where the DR can only be used when the batter runner gets to the base he makes it to. If he gets a double the DR can not be used for that batter later, should he advance...I do not like that rule, but it's out there.
I guess the women can adjust something else...

I guess I'm the only one to speak up about batters boxes ( unless I missed a post).
It was put there for a reason and should be used and enforced as such. Or, remove them and allow the hitters to run up and hit or run past the plate and hit as they do now. I've only seen two calls on batters for either but both were for going forward of the plate.
Jan. 9, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
taits
i've called way more than that out myself! there always is a batter box and it should be inforced! i've also called them out for taking out the lines just like the BOOK says!!!
they might look at making it a lttle wider and a little big by about 6inches in each direction! but you need to be INSIDE the lines no matter what
Jan. 9, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
Great, Run as fast as you can in and out to the field, no pitcher or infeild warm up, lets get the game over as quick as possible. Thats great for the TD and UMPS.
Where are we going? I agree on husle and have the DR ready to go before hand, I find my self walkingh on and off the feild. That alone will save more time than anything.
A ss making the play in the bottom of the 7th inning and not having thrown a ball for over 1 hour might not make the same play as he would if he has at least 1 warm up ball per inning. It could cost a team the game, maybe even a rotator cuff or at least a sore arm.
In our younger days we never had a problem husling in and out, at leat 3 to 4 ball for the pitcher and 1 or 2 for trhe infeild and still finished a full seven innings.
IMHO the TD and UMPS all want the games over ASAP so they can go home and count their money. This is just my 60 year old, 45 years of playing softball (200 games a year) opinion. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
I love the game, don't ever want to stop playing, but I have only a few years left so please let us enjoy it. We have to many associations having to many tournament with high cost we can't afford softball. I spent close to 8000.00 last year on tournaments for myself only. Ofcourse I am not good enough to play on a team that has 100% sponcership but I play never the less. Sorry I am sure I got off the subject so I will just shut up. Besides I have to get to bed early tonight I have a double header tomorrow. Enjoy the game, it ends all to soon.
Jan. 9, 2008
allworld
Men's 50
19 posts
Well, i see we all agree to disagree lol. I don't care if its a one and one count or not, I think the one and one will bring defense in the game more and people wouldn't go up looking for walks as much, Will it make the game faster, don't know, but most good hitters go up to the plate and look to hit the ball, and not wait for a walk. Good hitters don't need three swings to hit the ball, so it shouldn;t bother them so much, If the older teams don't want the one and one fine, but i believe the younger 50 and 55 would like to see the game speeded up just alittle. It's no fun not getting to play a full game. As far as paying and should get the full seven, not going to happen. Time limits are here to stay as they should be, Like i stated before, this game is great just the way it's run now, And when you try to please this many kids, its not going to happen,
Jan. 10, 2008
Hotcorner
Men's 65
20 posts
Hi cpopo: Some of us that umpire take issue with your comment that its"all about the money". When everyone [players,managers,umpires] do their PART, almost all games will go a full 7 innings well within the current time limits. For me, it's not about the money although it is nice to get paid for doing what I would probably do for free. Bobby K
Jan. 10, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
there ya go charlie you've riled the umps again :) :).umps for the most are good to go in the tourneys i've been in.
as for changes
1) make the mat bigger,say 2' by 3' for all assoc.
2) cr's if used, must be ready as soon as batter runner reaches base and no runner after first pitch,maybe limit on how many an inning say to 3 max.that should be plenty.
3) hr's m+= unlimited;m=7 then 1 up singles(all runners advance 1 base);AAA=3 with 1 up then walks(runners not advanceing unless forced);AA=1 with outs after that,if your team hits more than that you should be playing up.
4)call no arc on pitches,if it hits the mat its a strike,period.now before ya all get your panties in a wad on this one take a good look at it,u have a mat that you know where the ball has to land so you know where the strike is going to be,its slowpitch.also start with 1-1 count.
5) in conjunction with above,let the batter roam the box,aka start as far back as they want and can go get the ball any where,but just can't back up from starting position in the box(catcher saftey here).
sorry this so long,jmo.
Jan. 10, 2008
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
I THINK THE 1 AND 1 WUD HELP AND .......AS I'VE BEEN AN UMPIRE 25 PLUS YEARS OF MY LIFE...ITS THE UMPS RESPONSIBILITY TO MOVE THE GAME ALONG...IF HE GETS THE TEAMS TO HUSTLE IN AND OUT AND DOESN'T LET THEM WARM UP AFTER THE FIRST INNING THERE'S NO REASON A GAME CAN'T BE FINISHED IN AN HOUR ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE THE 5 RUN LIMITS....MOST TOURNEYS HAVE AN HOUR AND 15 MIN BETWEEN GAMES...ALSO LIKE IN THE FLA HALF CENTURY ALL TEAMS SHUD BE READY TO PLAY AT LEAST 30 MIN BEFORE SCHEDULED GAME TIME JUST IN CASE OF A RUN RULE ENDING A GAME ...AND THE GAMES SHUD START ASAP AFTER THE PREVIOUS GAME...AGAIN IT'S THE UMPS FAULT IF THE GAME DOESN'T GET IN 7 INNINGS AT LEAST FROM MY MANY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AS ONE....
Jan. 10, 2008
doker
Men's 60
168 posts
THE SPA MAT WHICH IS 1 INCH LARGER ON EACH SIDE GIVES THE PITCHER A LITTLE LARGER TARGET TO HIT THUS GIVING OUT FEWER WALKS AND SPEEDS UP THE GAME....
Jan. 10, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
to cpope

its all about the money!!! wow you are way off here. i do ump for nsa and usssa we get 22-25 a game for 55 min games! so to do the seniors at 19-24 per game at 1hr 15 mins is way off of base i do the seniors because i love umping and meeting new people!!!!!
so you figure i can make around $100.00 in 4 hrs or make 72.00 in 3:45 which is really making money in your IMHO LET ME KNOW !
softballer
Jan. 10, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4394 posts
For some strange reason I just can't picture anyone who's posted (umps) doing a complete tournament for nothing. Maybe a game in a pinch, but not 4-5.
Lovin it or not.

On another side or a coin, like the edge, He may of been referring to the Assn's lust of the almighty buck. But it is a business... we players all suffer because of that. Even if they also love the game which most of them do.

At least get the mat standardized, One size for all....
Jan. 11, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
Hotcorner, I stand corrected, not ALL umpires are in it for the money. But when I see an ump:
Walking off the field when he was told he was to get less games to ump that day then he was suppose to get, saying "I don't really care"
Not trying to speed the game up. saying "It's only 60 minute time limit and I am out of here."
Making bad calls and tell the team that ask for an appeal. "Tough, play or walk off the feild"
After making a very bad call and a player tell his team to hush up, The ump will make it up later. he says "I don't make up calls, I just get even"
And worse of all, this happen to ME. Being on deck batter the hitter hit a ball down the IB line that looked like it hit the bag to me, ump calls foul (this was after what I though 2 or 3 bads calls he made already) I said, not yelled "comeon ump, get one right" He looked over and ask who said that, I told him "I did, that was the 4th bad call in 3 innings", said, not yelled. He tossed me, came over to the on deck circle, got in my face and told me, "your a piece of shit, why don't you take a swing at me, no balls?"
Granted I am 60, almost 6 foot and 195 and this guy was about 70, 5'5" and 160, I just laughed walked to the dugout, packed my bags and have never been back.
PLaying for over 45 years, that made the third time I was tossed. I play the game for the fun of it and I, being corrected feel sure that there are some umps that still ump because they love the game and the people that play it. I also ump a local 55 league and donate my 14.00 a game back to their assoistation, gets me invited to their Christmas party. :)
And like most on this board have played it for a long time and back than you had 1 assoistation, 2 divisions (competive & rec) and everything was open, tournaments were less than $200.00 and you had to win a local league, district tournament tournament and State tournament to get invited to any type Nationals, you earned it, It wasn't just pay the money and show up for a National or World..
I know times change, but we have to many tournaments and not enough teams at them. One of my teams have won the SPA Winter Nationals 2 years in a row, we play the same 4 teams except one that we play ech month in the Florida Half Century tournaments. Teams don't have the buget they use to get and travel is tough. Just have fun.
Sorry I rabbled on, I just want to play ball, I don't have to many years left in this tired old body. Everybody have a great 2008 season, umps and players.
Jan. 13, 2008
Hotcorner
Men's 65
20 posts
Hi cpope: In general, umpires that conduct themselves the way you described, should and are relieved from umpiring duties. We all have a responsibility to conduct ourselves honorably at all time. Players and umpires that have a "chip on their shoulder" attidude, sour the game. Personal confrontation has no place in senior softball. RESPECT!! Appreciate your comments. Bobby K
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