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Online now: 0 members ; 10 anonymousDiscussion: Major Plus - unlimited HR\'s
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| Feb. 1, 2008 Dale Men's 50 79 posts | Major Plus - unlimited HR's If your Major Plus team was allowed unlimited HR's, with unlimited borders and was allowed to corral the best talent you could find with the best sponsors in your area, would there be any reason not to just play 5 on 5 Home Run Derby? That could be the entire tournament. The talent would be spread out over more teams, the safety of the pitcher would not be an issue, time limits would not be a factor, use whatever ball and bat you wish. This is basically what you all want. Your game is 90% hitting. The other 10% (baserunning (why take an extra base when the next guy is gonna blast one 350'), defense (there are guys at that level who can really play defense, and defensive plays can certainly change the outcome, but why bother, save it for offense), pitching (Einstein, you could still make a difference in this game with your style) Have 5 of the best long ballers on each team. If you don't hit it out of the park, it's an out. Each team gets three outs and then swap sides. 7 innings, add up the HR's and congrats to the HR champs for that day. You can play Double elimination, just like the guys who play REAL SLOWPITCH SOFTBALL. I know it's not softball, but the way you guys want to play the game is not the way the game was meant to be played either. You all have heard of 5-tool players: 1. Hit for power 2. Hit for average 3. Run 4. Throw 5. Field Most of you are probably saying, who is this 'tool'? You are entitled to say that, I can take it. But, these are my thoughts as I read this board daily, listening to the rants about bats, balls, borders and other minutiae. This all began when new associations began to spring up. I'm not sold on strictly ASA, but that's all there was when we played 30 or so years ago. Now all these independent associations are wanting to please everyone with there own 'tweaks' to the game that we played as 20 somethings and will continue to play until they cart us off the field. I know that I would play if they went back to wooden, alumimun or hickory bats and so would most of you, if that was the only alternative. Whew!!! I feel better!!! Thanks for allowing me to let off some steam that has been building over the weeks. I guess I just have cabin fever. Need some softball...... |
| Feb. 1, 2008 Fred Scerra Men's 80 547 posts | Totally agree with you. I have said that for a few years. What the heck is the fun in a 45 - 43 games. Just get up there and satisfy you lust for home runs and just have a home run hitting contest. Everyone gets 10 pitches and the most home runs win. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 60 2438 posts | Question me this, what fun would a 2-3 be? Our most memorable games are high scoring close games. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 audieh Men's 60 229 posts | Bruce, since I don't play AA or AAA I have a few rule changes we need to make for those two divisions. After all, it is only fair that we put our input in since so many of the AA and AAA players seem to want to make rules for us. This will be good for the game as we have repeatedly been told that AA and AAA are the backbone of the game and the only place we will find the true purist! 1) Only wooden bats allowed since defense is what the game is all about. Yes, yes, lets all meet at the ball park and take some grounders and shag a few flys. Hey, hit the cut off man and then we'll practice my favorite, sliding. 2) No home runs. A home run is an inning ending out. How dare a softball player hit the ball out of the park. Do you realize the time it takes to retrieve and for what, one mans huge ego! Come on man, keep it in the park, this is softball! 3) Run limits of 2 per inning since it is vital to play 7 innings. We would not want to recognize that 65 minutes of softball is 65 minutes whether or not it is 3 innings or 7 innings. Humm, could it be the more innings you play the more time you waste going in and out? 4) The balls should be dumbed down considerably as after all, the best defensive players in the world play AA and AAA and we want them to look good and have ample opportunity to field those titanic blasts. 5) No courtesy runners, as again, only the true softball "ironmen" players play AA and AAA. You know, the guys that can run, slide, play defense, hit the middle or gap at will, and are constantly working on their game or the message board. These are just the beginning rules we need to start lobbying for. (With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek) Can you think of any other rules we need to impose to save the game of softball from the monsters that play major plus? |
| Feb. 1, 2008 taits Men's 65 3999 posts | Dale, nice post. One sure way to more than double the M+ tams. Kinda like the King of the Court ball games. But do not think they would go for it. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 60 2438 posts | Good idea Audie! I would suggest that AA players must not have played organized softball for more then 2 years. If they have played three or more years, their team must be rated AAA. I have always thought AA was for the recreational player. This bring to mind the conversation I had at the Atlanta air terminal in Oct of 2006 with a AA player from Michagan. We were both on the way to Vegas to play in their national /tournament. When I asked the team and division he played for he told me the name and said AA. The guy was much bigger than I and acted like he knew the game well and had been playing for years. I asked what division he played when he was younger and he replied Class A. I then asked the skill level of the other players and he replied they were all about the same. He said it was a league team and this was the only tournament they played I believe his team finished second. I watched some of one of his games and they could have easilly played AAA, if not Major. Sorry for the rant. Anyone else have any rule changes for AA and AAA? |
| Feb. 1, 2008 Fred Scerra Men's 80 547 posts | Bruce: Not very often I disagree with you but I find a 3 - 2 game more exciting. Every play, every pitch, every throw means something. IMO I find 40-38 game very boring. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 taits Men's 65 3999 posts | If I remember right, (maybe not) at the beginning there was no major or M+. if correct then the keel was the aa\aaa teams. I think it was an idea but interesting any way. The close games, even if they are even larger in number or runs, are a good match. AA\aaa could also just bail out of all tournaments and fold every one out there. If they built it... the ending woulld be...no one would show. Look at basketball, not they have 3 on 3 tournaments. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 60 2438 posts | Fred, we can agree to disagree. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 60 2438 posts | Fred, you "got me to thinkun", I enjoy seeing a great defensive play as the next guy (as long as I wasn't at bat, lol), but, if the score is 2-3 in late innings, to me that means both teams have been unable to put together the necessary hits to score many runs. Softball is a game where one should be hitting .700 or better. In a 2-3 or similar game, that means there are several that are 0/3 or 1/3. In the major plus division, as well as major, if you have many games like that there is something serious wrong with you bat. I couldn't enjoy a game and I don't think the players could either if several hadn't had their first hit. After a game like that these guys would be demoralized, thinking they should have hit better. I have had my share of low scoring games, just ask SAG about our league team. :) I'll leave it at that! |
| Feb. 1, 2008 Davy 11 posts | I guess the answer is each skill group i.e. Major Plus, Major, AAA, AA should have rules of their own. regarding balls, bats, runs per inning, home runs, time limits, etc. SSUSA should poll players from each group to determine their wishes. Once those rules were established, players could decide which skill group they preferred to play and would be committed to that group for the year. PS Major Plus or AA is not necessarily a better game or vice versa Davy |
| Feb. 1, 2008 BruceinGa Men's 60 2438 posts | Fred, you "got me to thinkun", I enjoy seeing a great defensive play as the next guy (as long as I wasn't at bat, lol), but, if the score is 2-3 in late innings, to me that means both teams have been unable to put together the necessary hits to score many runs. Softball is a game where one should be hitting .700 or better. In a 2-3 or similar game, that means there are several that are 0/3 or 1/3. In the major plus division, as well as major, if you have many games like that there is something serious wrong with you bat. I couldn't enjoy a game and I don't think the players could either if several hadn't had their first hit. After a game like that these guys would be demoralized, thinking they should have hit better. I have had my share of low scoring games, just ask SAG about our league team. :) I'll leave it at that! |
| Feb. 1, 2008 4x4 Men's 65 565 posts | Dale - sarcasm aside your post was actually a slap in the face to all levels of this game. ALL the Major + teams want is to be able to play the game the way we all learned to play the game. A homerun is not a bad thing - if fact it is a very good thing in and for the game. It always has been and always will be. That's the way this sport is designed. 5 tool players???? You want to see them? Then you better start watching AND paying attention to the Major + games. You'll see infielders and outfields making incredible heads up plays and accurate throws that you will not see at the other levels. You'll see outfielder patroling the fence but still cutting off gap balls making strong throws directly to the correct base, not rolling in but directly at/to the base. You'll see infielders field balls hit that would not be catchable at the other levels. In short, you'll be seeing softball played the way it should be and was designed to be played. Even when I was younger I played on teams that could and did put up 40 - 50 + runs (one time that I can remember 53 runs in the 1st inning, we were almost too tired to play defense after that). The point is high scoring games have always been out there and part of this game. It's almost as if some of the lower level players are miserable at seeing the success of the Major + level. We're all here to enjoy playing this game. The more competitive you are the more you want to play a representative complete game. Major + accomplishes that. A lot of the time what you see and gripe about is the game. You don't think about the time these guys still put in on the field and in the gym to get to where they are at. Let every one play at their own level and enjoy it to the BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES. Castrating the Major levels only hurts the game. If someone wants to play at a higher level and has the ablility - LET THEM AND LET THEM BE. If someone is playing at his highest ability and is an AA or AAA player - LET THEM AND ALSO - Let Them Be. Everyone will be satified at their own level. To try and make everyone conform because they play at a higher level than you/others do is, it itself, contrary to the competitive spirit of the game and ultimately not good for the game. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 DCPete 208 posts | With all sincere due respect, if you want 3 - 2 games you're on the wrong board. You should be on the Fast-Pitch Softball board. This is the Slow-Pitch Softball board and slo-pitch is designed to be a Hitters game. That's why the pitches are sooo slow, so they can be hit. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 jim16 Men's 65 167 posts | Great post Pete. You are right. The major plus defense is just as awesome as their offense. AA teams will not score many runs against a major plus team. |
| Feb. 1, 2008 fastover50 10 posts | Great post PeteD...I think a 2 to 3 game would put everyone to sleep. If that's a nail biter of a game everyone would stay home. Play at your level and quit complaining about a level you can't play at. As far as the thinking that Major Plus players can't run, field and throw? I don't know who's watching what but I've been playing Major + for about 5 years now and I have seen some the best defense anywhere. I've even seen BruceGA play...haha |
| Feb. 2, 2008 Fred Scerra Men's 80 547 posts | I am not saying that the Major and Major+ players can't play defense, I am sure they are all great fielders or they wouldn't be there, I am also sure that they are all great hitters. I am just saying that I would enjoy a game more it they would be able to show off their defensive and offensive skills more. DCPete: We are all different. I find a 35-34 game boring and it puts me to sleep. In our local frost bite league they have those kind of scores and after 2nd inning I am going home. We all know most of those players have good power but I want to see their batting skills of hitting the gaps, dropping line drive in front of the outfielders, hitting that gap up the middle etc. Unlimited HR's just means that the team that don't score their 5 runs each inning loses.. Get me the No-Doz. lOL |
| Feb. 2, 2008 wagon487 Men's 50 503 posts | Pete D, I've seen more than one major team that played 5 infielders, beacuse no one could play outfield. They just just out hit everyone. It reminds me of watching highlites on ESPN, they show the dunks, big deal. Show me a good pass, a great shot, anything but a dunk. That is what a home runs feels like to me. And I don't know about you but I'm tired of playing two and three team tournments. My bad, maybe 5 teams at a big national! My mantra, lets get rid of the super bats!!!!!! |
| Feb. 2, 2008 4x4 Men's 65 565 posts | Wagon - you bet, quite often it is the team that outhits the other, on other times it's the team with the fewer mistakes on defense - that happens quite often. The reason that they function at the level they do is the work ethic that does not take place at the lower levels. You watch your team take BP and guys are there swinging -working on their stroke. That's all and good and maybe happens once a week ro 12-15 swings before a tourney game. You watch the M+ guys and they work out together often with the best pure hitters working with the others tweaking the stances, approach to the ball, stride, turn, hands, follow through, etc. In short you see a constantly evolving clinic opposed to individual effort/exercise taking place many times a week. Groups of 3 or 4 guys go out if the teams as a whole can't make it. At formal practices you will see infield worked on and guys in the outfield making their throws. How often do you see it at the other levels except to figure out where someone might fit, more a trial than a drill or exercise. I know one player that has a bin with 60 balls and hits 300+ balls per "tee" session multiple times a week. I know of a pitcher that throws 150-180 pitches a day by himself to perfect his game. Sometimes in his back yard, sometimes in the open to work with/against the wind. I know of another that hits 150+ off a tee 4 times a week and is in the gym on the off days. I know players that use the cannonball against a wall (like a softball sized superball) to practice fielding weird hops when nobody else is available. Before the big tourneys you'll see individuals at the complexes hooking up with others for impromtu BP and offering each other advice. Ususally taken with thanks and not an attitude.There are many, many more examples. That is the cut of the cloth. All the "big" hitters and fielders have worked to get where they are. Both on and off the field. Do you need to appreciate it? Hopefully you do, that's WHY their game is different. That's what separates them from the other divisions. It's the passion, devotion, discipline, and mental approach to/for the game as opposed to an interest of participation in the game. There are many players out there that can put out the effort and upgrade their game. In the day of dimishing physical returns it's really with wise way to approach the sport (and life in general) Sadly, most don't and won't. Some have the passion and some do not. Personally, I'd love to see a team stack up 5 infielders with only 3 outfielders. That would be a hitting feast. I can't imagine it happens too often. Maybe that one team has chosen to stock up with a bunch of gimpy legged hitters = dumb choice. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 chollis 82 posts | Great thread. In the interest of full disclosure, I play 50 Major Plus. I can't tell you how often I hear players that are not major plus players, make recommendations about changing the major plus division, but it is pretty often. I've heard all the comments, they can't hit it down, no defense, can't run, bomb after bomb, the games not supposed to be played that way, those guys are all jerks, etc etc. Maybe all these guys have just been watching me, I don't know. But, I here to tell ya, I haven't heard any major plus guys asking for game scores to be 3 to 2. On the contrary, I heard them ask for the restrictions to be removed from the division. If you play AA or AAA and you don't like our game, then just don't watch it. We really don't need your interference in this division, but if you just can't contain yourself then at least disclose what division you play. That way, others can place the appropriate weight on your comments. Audie made a good point, if you AA and AAA guys quit trying to run the major plus division, then we won't have to be the jerks and interfere with how you like to play the game in your division. Now, on another note, the five man infield can be extremely effective if the defensive player's know how to play it. We used it in the championship game of the ISA Nationals last year, in the 50 Major plus division, and it proved to be very extremely effective. All the major flat belly teams play the five man infield and most the "A" teams us it too. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 GeHall44 Men's 55 88 posts | Pete D. - thanks for clearly representing a lot of major + players views. I thought your posts on this subject were clear and concise without any obvious special interest hidden agenda. There is a Senior Softball Fast Pitch Organization. The link is: http://www.masters.nafafastpitch.com/ I used to love fast pitch, but it kind of died out in my area becasue all the good pitchers just got old. There is also a very good Senior Baseball Program available to any baseball purist to participate in. They have a World Series event for all age groups every year in Arizona. and wood bat divisions. Here is the link: http://www.msblnational.com/main.aspx While I was there I saw some game scores that were higher the 3-2. What's wrong with those guys? Why can't we all just get along and enjoy the gane? There may be valid reasons for rule differences between divisions just as there are today with the younger players. I think the less rules the better. I also agree with Fred that I would still play no matter what the rules. Remember playing wiffle ball games in the street with your brother or best friend as a child? That was sure a simple and lovable game for me. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 4x4 Men's 65 565 posts | Agreed - 5 infielders works well if you have some Gazelles in the outfield. When you used it Gary backed into an area of coverage while the other infielders shifted and it was very effective. Wagon's inference was that 5 infielders had to be employed because "no one could play outfield". That ,to me, indicated he was citing a lack of athletic ability opposed to a designed specific defense. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 wagon487 Men's 50 503 posts | Yes, Pete D, that was my point. The inablity to play outfield. Most of the major teams know that the middle is great place to hit. (not the pitcher, just the middle) All the preparation that you talk about only happens before the season starts. When we start playing, we never have a team practice. People live in different directions, different states. What I do and two of my team mates do is take batting practice. we have a screen for the pitcher, hit 30 balls, next person hits 30 and the last person hits 30. Then we all go out into the field and pick them up. Usually get in at least three rounds. We do that as much a possible and it does help with hitting. I'm an outfielder and never take throwing pratice. Do warm up with a toss that gets longer and longer as the sessins conitues, for about 15 minutes. AND YES, I PLAY MAJOR PLUS. I think the examples you gave are the exception, not the norm. Everyone on my teams plays a lot, we do keep our skills honed. I do like hearing other players thoughts on the way majors plus is played. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 Lecak Men's 55 998 posts | chollis let's say for argument sake that SSUSA doesn't change the HR rule in Major plus, would you make a case that the 5 man infield with the 3 OF's could be a great tool when the HR's are used up. Also I can tell you almost every traveling youth team worth their salt plays a 5 man. Some of the C teams have it down to a science. What I have used is 3 to the power side the pitcher slides to the weak side making 6 infielders and the corner OF's pinching to CF daring you to hit the lines in the air. Basically your daring the hitter to hit it in the air to a spot with distance control, could work in the seniors. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 tcadmw1 Men's 55 66 posts | Sorry for jumping over your question Lecak but I have been told from reliable sources that the change to SSUSA Major+ homerun limits and hitting the pitcher rules are being proposed because there are so many complaints about not getting 7 innings completed in Major+. If true then I have at least 2 quick comments: 1) Shame on you SSUSA for taking a step backwards instead of forward. We shouldn't have a part of the game taken away simply because you can't figure out how to plan major+ games. Don't punish us for scoring to much or for not shagging homerun balls!!!! 2) Shame on us major+ teams for allowing this to happen. We have a right and even an obligation to protest things we don't like but to allow our complaints to now, somehow change the rules against us is just WRONG!!! If we are going to complain then lets at least offer a reasonable solution so SSUSA can make a more informed decision instead of just a knee jerk one like this!!! Mike Walker Hollis Appraisals |
| Feb. 2, 2008 einstein Men's 50 3142 posts | Joe L, A great idea. One worth a lot of thinking. I watched one of the best pitchers in the country, Mickey Hughes and Courtesy raise the 5 man infield to an art form. You need studs in the outfield as I'm sure you know which gets tougher and tougher as the years increase. The best softball I've ever seen played was at the Black World in St. Louis some years ago and everyone of those teams used the 5 man infield. Mike you're a real man as well as a great player and there's a time we have to stand up for or against the powers that be for the sake of what's truly best for all of us. SSUSA has been exposed for their myopia either intended or purposeful regarding Major plus and you're right. We don't have to take it. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 WOW 201 posts | I say it again. I mean this with all sincerity. WHY NOT START YOUR OWN M+ ORG. There seems to be predominately M+ guys on this site. I would think you could easily "get your own thing " going. I suppose if I were a M+ player, I'd want to hit home runs every at bat too. If that is what you guys really consider important. [most of us don't], then do your own thing. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. . I play AAA, I love to play when not every batter is going to hit it out of the park. That makes the few home runs we see exciting. To me, M+ doesn't seem like a lot of fun. I'll always watch you guys when I'm between games,but I don't last more than 2-3 innings. It's boring. I go back to the "little" guys for excitement. It's fun to see good "D", good hitters, fast runners, good fielders, but most of all good attitudes. [I don't mean to insinuate you guys don't play with these other attributes, but.................] Pete D., you sound like a M+ player with a lot of experience to draw from. I seem to remember you playing AA ball for most of your career......... Joe, I respect your viewpoints because I know you and have played with and against you in Nor-Cal for many yrs. If anybody could get this M+ org. going, you could. You know a lot of Nor-Cal M+ guys.and you have what it takes.[By the way, I've always liked the way you treat the rest of us little folk] Anyway...... good luck too all you sluggers this yr. Enjoy what you can. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 Fred Scerra Men's 80 547 posts | WOW: Couldn't agree with you more. I was getting the feeling that I was alone on my own little island. I am glad I am not the only one that feels that way. |
| Feb. 2, 2008 4x4 Men's 65 565 posts | WOW - I play in the 60 Major Division. What you remember is correct. There was a time where my knees were so bad I could not walk up a flight of stairs without pulling myself up by the handrail. My wife is retired early disabled (back) I couldn't even help much with the groceries. We couldn't stay at a hotel that didn't have an elevator if the rooms were upstairs, I couldn't carry the bags up - see how THAT makes you feel. At that point I seriously thought I'd have to give the game up to preserve my health. I couldn't swing without intense pain and very often could not take a step out of the batters box and frequently went down to my knees in pain after a swing, trying to run was difficult . I had no platform to generate a swing or pop from, I could only arm swing at the ball. I felt lucky and thankful to even participate and luckier yet to try and play. At that point my body would not let play at a higher level and fullfill my obligation on a team. Every once and a while guys will walk up to me and tell me it's good to see me back remembering those days mentioning they knew I was going through quite a lot & how it was hard to watch. As far as the mindset, it's never changed. I can see both sides and presented my viewpoint as best I could. I'd always played at a high level and was away from the game for quite a few years. I didn't know SS existed until I was 56-57, my 1st card was a 55er. I see the M+ (when not restricted) as the way the game should be played and find myself aligned to that philosophy as that's how I've always approached and seen it. So - yes - I've been on both sides of the coin and feel fortunate that I made it through and am still playing. From what I've seen the lower the division the more lax/relaxed the play. The intensity there is also mostly on the offensive side of the ball, just not as explosive. That's not to say it's not just as spirited though. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 PattyMac 40 posts | Suggestin for a quick fix which would solve problems for all concerned. Get one high school basefield for the major plus teams to play on. Longer fences, more defense and real homeruns not the ones like anyone can hit on 300 ft fences with an ultra II. I guarantee that all the major plus teams would love this idea. Only major plus teams and i know some local high school would let us do it. Also sell balls to the teams and let them chase their own and unlimited homeruns. I am for anyone who still loves this game and plays at whatever level. Just don't try to hinder us from playing the game we love too. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 audieh Men's 60 229 posts | PattyMac, I like your idea. Put us on baseball fields and we will do just fine. I enjoyed playing the winter national on the 325' fences. Hey, then maybe those purists, wink, wink, would not get bored with watching us play. In fact maybe we should charge them since they wouldn't have anything else to grip about! I still advocate for the integrity of the game all AA and AAA games should be played with wooden bats and dumbed down balls. It would be safer, the games would be closer, they would get their 7 innings in and just think of all the great defensive plays, the hitting the gap, the sliding, the hitting the cut off man! Yes sir're, that is what we need to do! Just think Kevin could sell more types of balls and all of the new exotic wooden bats would create incredible excitement. Why haven't any of these purists picked up on this idea? What am i missing? |
| Feb. 3, 2008 tcadmw1 Men's 55 66 posts | Einstein you are the man. Just wish I had a chance to play ball with or against you more often. You are the real spirit of senior softball.. I agree lets start our own Major+ circuit. Kevin, you made some good points before about not seeing how anyone could make money at a Major/Major+ circuit only. Well that is the point, it would not be about the money. Teams would have to agree to do it and then commit money to make it happen. Just like they do in the young guys open divisions. Yes there are lots of administrative issues but if the teams/managers/sponsers would commit to making it happen then it would. I believe in this saying regarding this topic "if you build it they will come"!!!! PS - Don't play Major/Major+ at the same parks or on the same weekends as the other divisions and you will get some teams to at least try playing at this level because they don't have anywhere else to play that weekend??? Mike Walker Hollis Appraisals |
| Feb. 3, 2008 Enviro-Vac Men's 60 360 posts | Go with one division until you hit 60. Get rid of the 55 division and you will get more teams playing 50 |
| Feb. 3, 2008 fastover50 10 posts | I'm with Audie and Patty. Let's play on baseball fields. Just one question? When all those AA and AAA players can't hit a home run will they want to change the rules again so they can? Most of the Major Plus players I know could hit it out with any bat they chose almost anywhere. Why is it, if this is such a big deal to the so called "majority" of AA and AAA players that they haven't made rules for themselves that no one in those divisions should be able to use a senior bat. Make them all use ASA only bats. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 WOW 201 posts | Fred You are not alone in these thoughts. The vast majority of us players are NOT concerned about what these guys are thinking. In fact, the M+ group is a VERY SMALL minority. Most players I talk to just like to READ the message board and NOT partake in the discussions because it's ALWAYS about M+ players and their concerns about how everything is going against them. I think SSUSA and others are right in desinging what is best for EVERYONE. That is why I always suggest the M+ guys should do their own thing. STOP COMPLAINING and assuming everyone that isn't a M+ player is "clueless" [as one of these studs always suggests]. There seems to be enough of these players so "get it going". I FULLY SUPPORT YOUR RIGHT TO GO FOR THE FENCE EVERY TIME. KNOCK YOURSELF OUT................................"JUST DO IT" Senior Softball is for EVERYONE. I know of NOBODY that doesn't give it their best when playing this wonderfull game. I don't care what the level is. IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU....... |
| Feb. 3, 2008 cpope Men's 60 162 posts | You know that we are so lucky to be able to play this game at any level, WHY are we always fighting. Thsi is a softball board and the best threads are the TV Triva threads. In 5 to 10 years we are going to look back on this and think, Boy was I a dummy, why was I conplaining about everything and every one. It's a damn GAME. I fused and argued so much I never had any fun. I aways say when my LE job was no more fun I would retire. And I did 20 years ago. Somedays I feel that way about softball and threads like this make me feel WHY do we even play the game. God only gives us so many years and us lucky ones that still are able to play ball at any level should PLAY and not FUSS. Yell at me all you want I don't care. I just want to play ball. Charles Pope 60 Major |
| Feb. 3, 2008 Ken Men's 55 464 posts | FastOver, First of all, your lumping together of “all the AA and AAA” players together with the guys who had opinions on how to administer the Major+ division stinks. You heard from a couple of guys who had opinions. Since this isn’t a M+ board, they have the right to be heard. However, I would suggest that most of the guys who play AA & AAA really don’t care what is done in the M+ division. I would presume that all they care about is that the tournaments stay on schedule, and that their games are not being backed up because of longer games at the M+ level. If the tournament directors keep the M+ games on schedule with everybody else, I’m sure most AA & AAA guys would just live and let live. If they think that 45 – 42 games are not what they care to watch, then they don’t have to watch, and they probably won’t. But you and Audieh should be content to address your comments to the few who gave their opinions, not the bulk of the AA, AAA, and Major divisions who also play this game because they love it. The idea of playing M+ games on baseball fields is interesting (and, if I read PattyMac’s post correctly, that what he was promoting, not for everyone to do it). Starting a M+ only division is also interesting, but I think this might be hard to do. The monies generated by the AA, AAA, and Major teams fund the lion’s share of what it costs to put on a national event. If the M+ can do it, then more power to them, but it might be tough. Good luck to you. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 Southpaw55 Men's 55 51 posts | Audie, I thought of one thing that you left out..go to a 16" ball. That should keep 'em in the yard. I have to totally disagree with some of the posts I have read on this subject. Here in Southern Ca. we don't get the chance to see a lot of major plus teams during the regular local tournament season BUT, the ones I do get to see aren't a bunch of big ol' corn fed boys who step up, hit it 350' then take a seat in the dugout. They're like most of us that have been playing the game for the better part of their lives. They know how to do the "little" things it takes to win like playing solid defense, hitting behind the runner, hitting their cutoff man, etc. Every year when we're fortunate enough to play the Hollis team in Maui those guys could hit left handed and still win with their defense and knowledge of the game. The same goes for the Mavericks and Evolution here in So. Ca. Our team doesn't have a bunch of big boppers and when we play a team that does you won't find us complaining about it because we know if we play our game we'll be right in the thick of things come the late innings. Mike Boatright - Doubleplay 55M |
| Feb. 3, 2008 chollis 82 posts | Wow, All I can say is Wow. You come here on this thread which was started by someone who apparently doesn't play Major + that is telling Major Plus players that they should quit the game because we don't play it right anyway and just play some new game he just made up and then when he is challenged you have the balls to tell us to quit crying and that it is not all about us. Unbelievable Dude, you kick a bee hive and you be dealing with the bees. Are you and Dale working together on this? He starts it and and stir it. Now, I clearly see why Audie wants to start putting his two cents worth in on the AA or AAA division. Sorry Charlie, you are right, we all need to work together and support each other. I would do anything I could to help the AA or AAA guys get what they want in their division. Just as long they quit stirring up crap outside their division like they did on this tread. curt hollis Major Plus |
| Feb. 3, 2008 chollis 82 posts | Ken, Your comments were not up when I posted my comments. You make an excellent point and I agree with you. Audie is poking fun at these few guys that have to have their noses in everyone's business and not to the vast majority of AA or AAA players. Pat, I really like the idea of baseball fields with longer fences and bases. I enjoyed playing on the 325' in Ft Myers I think it was. curt |
| Feb. 3, 2008 WOW 201 posts | Hey Chollis. Where did Dale say you should "quit the game".?? Maybe some of those bees stung you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said before, I fully support you guys doing what makes you happy., What is wrong with suggesting you "START YOUR OWN ORG." Ken, like you said most of the non M+ players DON't care about what you do. Also, Where is the "crap" being stirred up? This is a place for communicating isn't it? CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG" Audieh, Where are the AA and AAA players wanting to "make rules for us" as you put it. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 tcadmw1 Men's 55 66 posts | I see this thread now t;urning into a he said she said contest maybe the major+ guys should start a new thread related strictly to how we could make a major/major+ circuit work? So that is what I will try to do, see you guys there!!! Mike Walker Hollis Appraisals PS - Mike B. good to see you on here and looking forward to seeing you and your wife in Maui again in May!!! |
| Feb. 3, 2008 audieh Men's 60 229 posts | Ken, nice post. Re-read my posts and you can see that I am poking fun at the few posters who seem to want to change the major plus game because, in their opinion, it is boring. Never mind that the do not play on that level. I am certainly not mad or upset with anyone. Most of my softball buddies here in Jacksonville are AA and AAA players and great people. Believe me, I understand that the AA and AAA players I was poking fun at do not represent the majority of players. In any organization or message board there will be those with different views and those with contrary spirits. Such is life. I just thought it would be fun to take their suggestions for improving our division, that they do not play in, and then show them how crazy those ideas are when applied to the Nth degree in their game. Funny, none of them want to change the rules to wooden bats, etc. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 fastover50 10 posts | Ken: You are right and I was wrong to lump all AA and AAA players into the same group. I apologize to all those offended. If I were to appreciate anything it would be input from all players trying to improve the sport we all love so much. I was actually poking fun at the few players that seem to have input on the divisions they don't play in. I heard, correctly or incorrectly as it may be, that these few were the people that had the most input at the summit regarding the rules changes that affected the Major Plus level. Out of frustration, I have responded on this board to derogatory comments directed towards Major Plus players and their abilities to play the game. I must be far removed from reality because until I started reading this board I thought we were all on the same page. I didn't know there was conflict between the divisions. I just want to play the game. |
| Feb. 3, 2008 fastover50 10 posts | Ken: You are right and I was wrong to lump all AA and AAA players into the same group. I apologize to all those offended. If I were to appreciate anything it would be input from all players trying to improve the sport we all love so much. I was actually poking fun at the few players that seem to have input on the divisions they don't play in. I heard, correctly or incorrectly as it may be, that these few were the people that had the most input at the summit regarding the rules changes that affected the Major Plus level. Out of frustration, I have responded on this board to derogatory comments directed towards Major Plus players and their abilities to play the game. I must be far removed from reality because until I started reading this board I thought we were all on the same page. I didn't know there was conflict between the divisions. I just want to play the game. |
| Feb. 4, 2008 tcadmw1 Men's 55 66 posts | I play major+, when they let me, and I don't have any hard feelings towards any of the other players, divisions or levels. I also don't think 99% of anyone on here or reading these posts do. What I think happens is someone makes a statement and someone takes it the wrong way and then just like politics there is a fire going.... Trick is to control the burning.... lol That is just passion which can be good at times. But don't think for a minute that the majority of anyone on here or reading these posts actually has bad feelings towards the other divisions or levels or the players. I also think that many major/major+ players are getting a little frustrated with: 1) The lack of consistancy and constant rule changes that seem to punish these divisions for one reason or another 2) The lack of teams willing to play in these national tournaments at this level for what ever the reason 3) The characterizations that unfortunately we all seem to make towards one another from time to time. So bless each and everyone of you who play senior softball because that makes everyone of you a winner in my book!!! Mike Walker Hollis Appraisals |
| Feb. 4, 2008 cpope Men's 60 162 posts | Amen, Mike Walker, and for the few that don't know Mike Walker he is one of the best "5" tool Major Plus players around, Defence, HR power, high averge, Speed, cannon for a arm, Great guy and team mate. All wrapped in a small package compaired to most power hitters. While I have close friends on M+, M, AAA and AA we should be here to support each other. I have a lot of good fiends on one of the best M+ teams around and proberly the top M+ team in Florida, Hollis Appraisers, and all of them are out here for the GOOD of softball. Well maybe Audie, but he just loves to stir the pot. Really he is a great guy. They just want things to be fun as we all do. I have played M+ but am not a M+ player so found my nitch at M, I have played AAA and was a good AAA player. We all play at differant levels for differant reasons (I hate games that are blow outs, even if I am winning, it's no fun for either team) Find our level of play, AA don't want to see 4 or 5 guys on a team going yard, even AAA is in that boat, M has a few but when you hit the ball as hard and as far as some M+ players, give the unlimited HR, that's their game, bigger fields, they would love it. The pitchers would also love it. It's there game. I would not want a Curt Hollis or PattyMac driving a short hop to me at SS on some of the fields conditions we have to play on. Give the the chance to hit HR's everytime up. They don't always but they WILL NOT go middle, They all have that respect. AA and AAA are great divisions, I would love to play AA, I could be a "Mike Walker" but AA don't want or need that. I don't think anybody should feel slighted because they play AA and not M+. We should thank God we can still play. Lets work together and make our last few years the best of our lifes. Friends that you see again each year. I played in Ft Myers M+ on the 325 ft fences, hit about 9 balls 320 feet, at AAA they would have been gone. We have our levels, lets play them, help the other division with their problems and I know they will help as they can. The iders this year about AA/AAA and M/M+ being held at differant times are great. Maybe even just one division, who knows if that a good choice. M and M+ on differant weekends on larger fields, not really to my personnal liking but would put me back into what I always was, a base hitter. Damn I usually don't say much on these boards so sorry I typed so much and didn't say much of anything. Lets play, play hard, try not to get hurt, keep great friends and make new ones and cheer on each and every player in their divisions. A 4 to 2 ball game can be just as exciting as a 45 to 44 game, even in 4 innings. We are not all alike, but we have softball in common. Play hard have fun. AND, my last thing, the associations should listen to the players, we have made then tons of money the last 10 years I have played senior ball. We have a little experince at this game, let us help you make the correct call. OK OK I am done, hope to see many of you guys again this year. I only get to see some of you once a year and it;s always good to see you still playing, having fun and in good health. God Bless Charles Pope Major minus player :) |
| Feb. 4, 2008 Dale Men's 50 79 posts | I started this mess, so I guess I should end it, or at least, hopefully, soothe some ruffled feathers. We all love this game......We play in the division we play because we feel it suits our game best. I'm a AAA player, always have been, always will be. I love the way the game is played at that level. I had no business sticking my nose where it didn't belong. You guys (Major +) play at the highest level and deservedly so. Of course, my suggestion to play Home Run Derby was just meant to stir things up. None of us, especially you Major + guys, want to boil your game down to a few swings of the bat to determine the outcome. I've followed this thread this weekend and watched you guys rally support for your own league, which would be a great idea. If you re-read my opening sentence, you'll see that I was advocating for unlimited HR's and borders for you, so that you could have more teams. I play mostly in the South and even our AAA tournaments seldom have more than 6 teams. Most of which are the same teams each tournament. I went to High School and played High School baseball in Jacksonville, Florida (Terry Parker, Class of '69) and followed the Warren Motors, Starke Green Machine teams of that era. I still have family there and get down there a couple of times a year. I wish I could make it to your Spring Training so you all could crucify me in person. Great softball is still played there (all ages). I moved to Nashville, Tennessee in 1970 and have been here ever since. Hollis boys, you made your point, loud and clear and I respect you for your stance. To even suggest that you guys were less than total athletes (although I didn't actually say that) is very shortsighted on my part. Please accept my apology for any of my statements that may have suggested otherwise. I call myself a Christian and try to live that example. I couldn't walk away from this thread without making things right. I'd like to shake hands with you guys at tournaments this year. You all probably don't know me, but I know most of you. Like Charlie Pope said, let's play the game we love, live and let live. Good luck and good health to all this year. Dale Smith Monster Softball |
| Feb. 4, 2008 audieh Men's 60 229 posts | Dale, good to hear from you. I graduated from Jackson in 1970 and Curt from Wolfson in 1974. I'm sure we crossed paths. No harm taken as half the time on this board I am playing the "devil's advocate" much like you did here. We'd love to see you at www.classicspringtraining.com if you can make it. Your welcome to be mine and Curt's guest. Many of the guys on this board will be there. The good thing is it got us discussing major plus softball and I think the powers to be heard our input....so we thank you for getting the ball rolling. Hey, what do you think about the idea of wooden bats though in AA and AAA? |
| Feb. 4, 2008 4x4 Men's 65 565 posts | Audie - Audie - Audie / 8 No wonder Curt turned out the way he did.......... |
| Feb. 4, 2008 Dale Men's 50 79 posts | Audie Played a little baseball with and against a couple of '69 Jackson grads ,Red Untemeyer, Mike Sutterfield and a catcher named Moseley. (don't remember his 1st name). I hadn't thought about them in a long time. Don't know that there would be great interest in a wooden bat league, but if that's what they told us to use, I'd be there. Thanks for the invitation to Jax. I'd love to be a part of that, but, I'll make it another time. Dale |
| Feb. 4, 2008 audieh Men's 60 229 posts | Dale, three great players from the past. Billy or Ray is the Mosely. I tried to get in touch with Red a few years ago to come play but with no success, I mainly played against those guys in park ball. I played at Tallulah and they were at Norwood. Some great players also came out of Brentwood, Panama Park and Glen Myer. Those were some fun times. Our best player was Guy Ezzell. Keep in touch and let me know when you come to town and we'll go out and errrrr......... hit some grounders and practice sliding, and ......... :) Audie |
| Feb. 5, 2008 WOW 201 posts | Great posts Dale and Cpope. I know I added a little fuel to the fire. Maybe I got carried away, Never meant to hurt anybody. Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to see the "energy" on this one turned down a little. Good Luck and God Bless ALL of us old guys ....... |
| Feb. 6, 2008 The Pro 83 posts | Been awhile for me, still recovering from a Hip Replacement and serious infection. I think it is safe to say that most Major+/Major players are not happy about the new HR or DOB rule.I agree that these rules just don't make sense on any reasonable level (why 60 year olds are allowed "less" HR's than 50-55 year olds is beyond me). This is once again a move by an organization to ignore the input by the players paying for the "privildge" to play in "their" tournaments. So the option is to play in those organizations that have more sensible rules for the Major+/Major players and give SSUSA the message that you chose not to comply. LVSSA has 2 excellent tournaments and I have heard that the SPA is going to expand the number of tournaments all over the country and that SSWS is now approving the "senior" bats. It's "money" that drives these decisions it will be "loss" of money that will change them. I was once a Major + player, don't know what I'll be physically when I return, but my heart will always be with Major +! |
| Feb. 6, 2008 The Pro 83 posts | DBO (my bad) sorry. |
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