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Discussion: Super Mjor Softball-The way the game was meant to be played

Posted Discussion
Feb. 23, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Super Mjor Softball-The way the game was meant to be played
This has been in the planning stage for awhile and its time to make it happen.
The Govering Body of Senior Softball SS-USA in line with its purpose to provide the very best program possible and in partnership with The Texas Half Century, has given us the mission to create the best Super Major Senior Softball ever. Major players have complained that the AA-AAA players are dictating the games rules. Not so anymore.
We are proposing to hold a super rules tournament ANY WAY WE WANT IT.
I personally think that 1. No time limit 2. No run limit 3. No HR limit are the basics, but its just my opinion. Its up to us.
The question is what do we want? We need your input. We want the teams to come and we want it to be the best it can be. I can only start the process but we are committing our resources to make it happen. I believe it needs to be held in the middle of the country and an airport hub city because of cost. Middle America so that both east and west can attend. This leads me to think of Dallas, Houston, St Louis or Chicago. Fairly early in the season because unlimited time limits in very hot conditions doesnt seem too smart.
There are two Fields of Dreams in Texas but remember cost would be greater.
Player eligibility, we get to decide, but from experience, if we go away from geographical limits it hurts participation. Howevr, we need to have the top players even if they come from Wyoming.
If we cant come to an agreement it means that the rules presently in place are the best and shouldnt be messed with. However, previous posts say we want the game as the inventors of the game created it when we were younger.
I know you guys have a lot of opinions and ideas and our great ones frequent this board. I believe we need to keep our bats and 44 375 balls, its a good match. 50, 55 and 60 divisions. Wouldnt it be better to finish 16th in a 16 team field that to win a AAA title? We get to make the rules and rosters do not have to line up with the current SS USA roster, this is a separate program.
You can post your ideas here or you can email me at jimcary16@hotmail.com or call me at 903 236 3459.
SS USA and the Texas Half Century are ready to make it happen.
WHAT SAY YOU?
Feb. 24, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
I don't think any one div\age or what ever has complained the most on here, especially when the majority of posters do not have any info listed for them. so are you OFFICIALLY posting this as an authorized piece of work or what ever?
Sounds like just a wish list.
Feb. 24, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
If you will remember, there was a lot of discussion about this a couple of weeks ago right here on this board. This isnt a wish list. This a definite proposal.
Einstein, Stoney, Mike Walker, Wood, Audie, what are your thoughts? SS-USA and The Texas Half Century can make it happen.
Feb. 24, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4395 posts
Those you mention were the primary posters, all Maj & up.
there was alos another suggestion about just breaking off and forming your own assn.
The whole thing, no matter where you are is going to open a can of worms. Not that it couldn't work within the assn's you mention. I think the biggest prob will be borders.
why not just split the US, at the Mississippi. I do not know it the players are equally divides there but it might be worth a look.
What ever happens, will not come overnight,

I still haven't used that yellow Synergy nr I got from you Jim.
Feb. 24, 2008
E. Ness
122 posts
Jim,
It is the weekend and you may only get a few to answer but as someone who has played at the highest level his whole life until I hit senior softball I am all for it as long as we get rid of the regional rules or at lesst split the country in half.

Open homeruns, how about a 2 hour time limit, no run limit, 1 and 1 county, good 44/375 softballs, our bats, and maybe bigger fields if possibe. Make it a three day tournament if you can. It will take a year or two to get it going real good but I believe it will take off. Anyone who wants to play at that level wants as many teams as possible and wants the best to show up no matter what it takes. If that means a couple of super teams in the tournament then so be. I loved to play against Dan Smith back before the regional rules. The times we best his team were special.
Feb. 24, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Ness,
I like your comments.
I love the 1-1 count as it creates a faster pace
and makes everyone more aggressive.
I would keep the mat bigger and increase the arc limits to
15 and 3 and
if the lower pitch
crosses the batter between knee and shoulder
it can be called a strike without having to hit the mat.
Extend the pitching box backward 6 feet.
All these will help limit scoring and keep the games from getting out of hand.
All you have to do to keep the big guys from getting silly with long balls
is give a good pitcher more opportunities to make the batters have to adjust.

Jim Carey, this is a terrific idea, a step in the right direction and can help SSUSA and other associations
learn what conditions we want/need when coming to their tournaments.
I heard that flying into Dallas is more expensive than flying cross-country
for most.
Feb. 24, 2008
audieh
Men's 60
242 posts
Jim, I like your idea! We have tried this before and got little to no response. However, count us in and how can we help you?

My thoughts on rules, which are not universally held, would be as follows to get the most participation.
1) Keep bordering sate rules with one pickup from anywhere. Nothing special about the Mississippi to me!
2) Unlimited home runs, unlimited runs per inning, and no time limit. Basically 2 hours per game would keep the schedule on time.
3) Keep pitching like it is, 6 to 12 feet. Again, this isn't about pitchers and many seniors do not play the faster pitched, flat belly ball.
4) Start the tournament on Friday night and wrap it up by noon on Sunday. This saves sponsors extra motel days, etc. and allows the players to travel on Friday morning and Sunday afternoon losing only one day of work.
5) Definitely has to be played at a hub city for convenient flights and hopefully within 20 miles of the airport.
6) Make the time of year in the same month that there are no other major associations having a national.
7) Get SS-USA to recognize points for Hall of Fame, etc.
8) Allow Ultras and .44/375 core balls with minimum 300' fences.

Now, having said this, you will soon realize that most players/managers/sponsors, sad to say, would rather win a tournament with 3 teams than compete in a tournament where 10 of the best in their division are and find out where they truely rate.

However, I'd admire you trying to do this and will do my best to bring a team to compete.
Feb. 24, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Bruce and Joe, Thank you for the response. Do not be confused. This will be an official SS-USA event, not some new association created just for this one event. SS-USA is is acknowledging that the Major players MAY want a different format. There has been much discussion among the players about doing this. If its what the players want, it will happen. The only way to know what the players want is to open it up for agreement and then to do it. If the major players do not respond and want a different format, it must mean that the best rules are already in existence and there is no need to change anything. This is our chance to make the game the way we want it. Its up to us.
We cant sit back and complain about the way it is without our imput, thats just being a complainer. If we truly want it changed, we can change and its with SS-USA, not a new association. What we do not need is a new association. SS-USA is OUR association and it wants to be EXACTLY what the players want it to be.
We can have a 2 hr time limit and we can play on bigger fields. We can do what we want. But the teams have to come up with a format that they will participate in. We are ready to do it.
I have looked at air fares and Dallas is the cheapest I can find as its a hub. Chicago and Houston are also hubs. St Louis is central but it isnt a big hub. We want to keep costs to a minimal amount and we are flexible.
Rosters are for one tournament. We are ABSOLUTELY NOT messing with the program already in existence, its the best and is still the same. This will be a sanctioned event without changing the qualifying system in place.
I know there are some of you out there that will be naysayers and criticize whatever is proposed, thats the nature of us old guys set in our ways. I see some of it here already. I have heard all of the criticism about hitting one out of the park and it being an out.
Guys this is our chance. Be positive, be creative to an extent, and we will use our resources to make it happen. It isnt complicated.
Jim
Feb. 24, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Audie, Great post. I can see we are on the same page. This is a real attempt by the SS-USA family to make the game all its meant to be. I need to hear from more of our teams. Lets rally now to make this happen.
We now have responses from Northern Calif, Florida, Missouri and Texas. Its a great start.
We can alter our rosters and format any way we want.
Feb. 24, 2008
KAL
2 posts
Jim, this is Ken Lipinski writing in response to your proposed Major+ revised format of play. I agree with 1) NO RUN LIMIT PER INNING; 2) NO HOME RUN LIMIT; 3) 2 HR TIME LIMIT PER GAME.

I do not agree with opening the whole roster to players east or west of the Mississippi, I believe a 2 person exception is workable and keeps us away from the Dan Smith National teams of the past.

You and I both experienced those days and we also saw the Sawtre Texas team that was an annual power house with basically all Texas players except for Greg Garrett and maybe one other player. Also the Fregie's team was an equally exceptional team with only players from their area.

It seems to me what you are proposing is basically the rules for SPA, which I believe Ridge has implemented very well and is the main reaason he, year in and year out, has the most Major+ teams participate. LVSSA is also moving in that direction.

I also think that all the Major+ teams need to have a network amongst us so that we can share our schedules and build more participation/competition in these National tournaments.

If there are any 50 Major+ managers out there that read this I will personally volunteer to be the organizer of a mailing list of 50 Major+ teams and get each of your schedules distributed among all who participate. My email address is babe7@thegrid.net.
Feb. 24, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Can a team be entered from players from different rosters without all the paperwork of releases and then we can go back to our old teams? Also can I play with some of my old friends from the east coast even though I live out west? I could probably throw something together under these circumstances.
Feb. 24, 2008
T-REX
64 posts
Bravo...I played major when I was younger and senior until a couple years ago,it got to be to many rules.I love the idea,the problem is going to be finding umps,they won't work unlimited without $$$,but the idea is sound.Being from Maryland the central part of the country works vest and is far for all...Des Moine Iowa is nice...If I decide to play again....I'm in!
Feb. 25, 2008
E. Ness
122 posts
Ken,
I would disagree a little with you on one point. I played for you when we played Dan Smith and I know that you, Greg, myself and the whole team felt a great sense of accomplishment when we beat Smith and those other power house teams. The percentage fell in their favor more often than not but those giant killer days were great. It is what makes the highest level of softball so great. The best of the best playing against each other.

I would also agree that the SPA rule is very good but even that has limitations which I am experiencing at the current moment.

Jim,
Anything I can do to help just let me know. I am back in-country now so I do have time to help. I may not find a team to play for but I could help organize and help run the tournament.
Feb. 25, 2008
mellis4009
1 posts
I'm new to this board and new to the world of senior softball but would love to see a 40+ division added to the super major . I believe that the 40+ division is growing and there are more teams forming then ever before. The issue is tournaments and organizations that support this division and it potential. I feel more teams would form if there was a steady stream of tournaments to play in.
Feb. 25, 2008
E. Ness
122 posts
Jim,
We may want to include the 45 age group in this.
Feb. 25, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Ken and Bruce. Fantastic posts, this is getting rolling.
Rosters, we will NOT combine any roster with those already in existence. That means that these rosters are separate and there would be no need to get any releases to go back to another team. The roster used for this program will stand alone. You can join up as many players as you want within the grographical limitations. I believe. This is my opinion, that a team could have 2 or 3 players added outside their boundary with maybe the limit of not coming out of an area where another team is residing with out a waiver. IE Say a Southern Cal player wanted to play for Florida and Ken you have a team and wanted that player. He could go only if you give permission. Just a thought. We want to protect our regions and get teams to form from each region in the country. There are a lot of great AAA players out there all divided up on many teams. Take all of the AAA strong players out of Calif and they could definitely compete. They also can go right back to their AAA team without roster penalty. Its very important for us to understand tht this is a one event with no roster implications to any other event.
Bruce, Kansas City is also a hub of sorts and there are quality fields available for an event like this.
Donnie, Lets hear from MD and VA. New York and Michigan. A 40 division is a great idea if we can get the work out.
Umpires are not a problem. They work for money. Umpire costs are small in comparison to travel costs.
For the first time i am going to name names. Terry Hennessey and Bill Ruth are behind this 100% but want us to run with it. We have he official support where it needs to come from.
Jim
Feb. 25, 2008
BRich8
6 posts
Jim
The NY Statesmen are trying to come out of hibernation and looking to play a limited Major Plus schedule. Based on time and place we would definitely consider such a tournament. Good Luck and keep us posted.
Bob Richards
Feb. 25, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Jim.
It's my experience that drafting what it would look like
and then having guys react to what is, going forward
is more efficient than just collecting info.
Have someone draft the new league right away
with most to all of the important stuff in place.
Location...Dallas for example,
Balls...44 375
Bats...1.2
Pitching... Larger mat, 15-3 with called strikes.
Platooning...Yes
(Somebody stop me)
So it's easy to see and react to.
It's just a much easier process to modify something in front of us
moving forward
that drafting anew at each turn.
Then we can poll, adjust and replace, more easily,
with a structure already in place.
Feb. 25, 2008
E. Ness
122 posts
Jim I have access to a baseball complex that I am sure we could use if we give enough notice. Grass infields, lights, 300+ fields, etc. Only problem with the fields is that it is out on it own but not to far from the city and hotels. So yes KC could be a place.

I agree with Joe. Lets put the thing together with the idea that we may have a few adjustments. SSUSA rules with our changes. Get a date or two and a complex and then let the senior softball world know and go from there. The first year might be short on teams but if we do it right it will not be from that point on.

Lets get some equipment companies behind this. We all have ins with many companies lets make this a world tournament like the old days. I have an in with Combat, Kevin I am sure will get involved as will Corky with Miken. We can do this we just need to start rocking and rolling.
Feb. 25, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Hi Jim,
Feb. 25, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Hi Jim,
I agree with Audies 7 points. I also think that there will still not be enough 50 Major Plus Teams to get a big turnout. So I would like to add combining 50 and 55 Major + into one division. My opinion is that most of the better teams are in the 55 division right now. I have brother 3 years older so I have been playing against that age group my whole life and feel like I learned and got better because of it. If we could somehow lure Major teams into the fray with some type of fair equalizer, that might work also. SPA events with 8 teams are awesome. I would love to see 10 or more teams - how cool. I would vote for West Coast climate areas that are not so humid in the summer, but maybe spreading it out with 1 east, 1 central and 1 west event would work also.
Our official team message from MAC II 50 major Plus is:
We would like also for you to go to the Senior Softball Association website and send an e mail to Terry Hennessey under "Contact us" and let him hear what you have to say about the new rules (12 HR's and then outs as well as the middle closed. One or the other but not both. To speed up the game start with a one- one count. That is fine, we can play more then 4 innings and we are used to playing with a one-one count.) teams having to spend a vacation day, extra hotel night, extra rental car day for a best 2 out 3 tourn. We can do it on Sat. and Sun. The fee for a 2 out 3 ($450.00-$600.00) is way to much for such a tourn. Let the 50 Major Plus combine with the 50 Major's so we can play more games, different teams and enjoy playing the tourn's. like other divisions. Through Fran, Terry wants to hear about the changes and suggestions from the teams. Let him hear
Feb. 25, 2008
DoubleL10
Men's 65
836 posts
I have read Jim's proposal and all the replies to this point with great interest. I am in agreement with 1) Two hour time limits; 2) No home run limits; 3) No per inning run limits, and 4) Using senior bats - including the Ultra II - and the .44 cor 375 balls.

Some have espoused 1-1 counts and 15 foot arcs. I am NOT in agreement with those proposals. If we have a two hour time limit, we should play softball "the way it was meant to be played" - as Jim's discussion topic is entitled - and not use the 1-1 count. I also think the pitch arc is fine right where it is - 6 to 12 feet. Note that I do NOT pitch!

I agree with Ken Lipinski and audieh on the rosters- I don't think a National roster would be in our long-term best interests. I played on the Dan Smith teams several have alluded to in this post and while we had a National roster during a time when that was allowed, only a couple of other teams did the same. I recall Sawtre having guys from all-over and one tournament we played against a combination of the Mavericks from California and Fergies from Maryland. Those were fun games but we quickly saw the number of teams drop to 3 in the 50 Major Plus division in which we played. Now playing at the 60 Major Plus level, we have between 8 and 10 teams in our division which is great when a lot of us go to the same tournaments. I would support the one or two pickup rule and not arbitrarily limit them to East or West of the Mississippi.

For everyone's information, the 60 Major Plus already has a clearinghouse amongst our teams to share schedules so that we can be better aligned on attendance at the National Tournaments. Gary Tryhorn has spearheaded the formation of our network in conjunction with all the known managers, at this point, of teams classed as 60 Major Plus.
Feb. 25, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
DoubleL10 for me to ask my friends who are non-major plus players I would need the ability to have an open roster, we would probably use this format as a reunion of sorts. I probably wouldn't be able to participate. What I have in mind would only provide another team with some different faces. I also would love to play on baseball diamonds with the deep outfields. If we mimic the current rules I would be SOL.
Feb. 25, 2008
the wood
1087 posts
Jim, you asked for my input... thanks for thinking of me.
I agree with LL, KAL and AudieH... keep the pitching rules as they are... bordering states + 1-2 guys... 2 hr time slots... unltd HRs... unltd runs/inning... 44/375 balls... senior bats... 3 days... done by noon on Sunday.
BW
Feb. 25, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
jim everything sounds great.
on another note,i just played in waco,tx this weekend with the kids and they have fields (6 or them)with fences ranging from 300' to 345' for softball and 2 fields that are baseball.location not the best for travel from around the country tho.
Feb. 25, 2008
b blake
8 posts
Jim i think this is a great idea,we still have a lot of players who want to play power softball. i think unlimited home runs will go a long way to protecting the pitcher and limiting the number of balls hit back in the middle.
a 2 hour game time should allow you to keep the tournament on time.
Feb. 25, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
Now I am really getting excited because I am sure that we can make this work. We already have so many great names in senior softball responding and surprisingly enough, we have differing opinions, but they arent far apart. I am promising all of you that the financial backing is already in place to make this work. I spoke with Kevin Schulstrom today and he seemed to think that Cincinnati might be the cheapest hub to consider. Is there someone out there that is well versed in airfares to do a little research? I am not ruling out that an airline might even lend a little endorsement, I know people who can make contacts, its probably why I lean toward Dallas.
With guys like KAL, Audie, ENess, The Wood willing to lend a little help it will make it even easier.
I have a few private emails and all that is here so far is enough to get it started.. Tonight I will draft a central proposal as has been suggested, and then let you guys pick it apart.
Keep the ideas coming. I'm sure that we havent thought of all the possibilites. I want to keep the cost as low as possible but we need to have the event stand on its own two feet. If it cant fund itself, it probably doesnt have enough merit.
Please do not hesitate to call or email me off of the board with any of your private thoughts.
All kinds of things can be done. Lecak, there are a whole lot of great AAA players who can compete. Anyone who looks at the AAA rosters in Calif, NV and AZ can find a few super teams. There are a lot of great players playing down on teams with their friends where the overall strength of a single AAA team isnt there but combining a few can be a super team. THERE WILL BE NO PENALTY to any player in any class as far as rosters.
Feb. 25, 2008
T-REX
64 posts
I love it...I am ready for the draft, former Fergies 3b,Damons 1b...this sounds like the game returning to its roots,if I'm not drated,I'd come out to watch it as a fan...keep the ball rolling!
Feb. 25, 2008
audieh
Men's 60
242 posts
In 2007 we played the ISA National in Bridgeton, Mo. at the Bridgeton Sports Complex. The facilities were outstanding with 9 fields and an impressive concession stand. The ballpark was within minutes of the St. Louis airport and there were nearby motels and restaurants.

This location should be considered due to the above amenities and the central proximity.

Also, since we are taking this back to "real softball" are we doing away with the round robin games and just doing what we called, 2 & Q? That is, you lose 2 games and you head to the BBQ restaurant? I would be in favor of this and just flip for seating, etc. This would eliminate extended tournaments and reduce the overall roster size as you would not need as many players, runners, etc.
Feb. 26, 2008
Conman
Men's 50
72 posts
Audie,

As far as fields .. here in Ft Lauderdale, Brian Piccolo park has 6 fields that are 320 feet down the lines and 325 in center. Can be reserved pretty easily with notice.

Airport is 25 minutes away. Hotels ... you'd have to wait until after the season is over in May.

Don't forget the complex in North Naples. Only problem there may be flying in to Ft Myers.

I would think bigger fields are a must.

Conman
Feb. 26, 2008
sliplayer
Men's 60
70 posts
Jim
How would you establish the format for this Major Plus tournament? Would you have the 40's, 50;s & 60's one weekend with 45's, 55's and 65's on another weekend?
I would like to see most of the rules stay the same with the changes of unlimited HR's, 2 hour time limit and good balls and bats and a limited number of exception players for teams made up by normal state rules.
This might be a great tournament to try using the screen to protect the pitcher???
Steven Imlay
Feb. 27, 2008
dceagleeye24
4 posts
Hi fellow players,
I am Duff from MAC II, the lead-off hitter-lefty. Fondly referred to as Bat and A Half by my teammates.
I believe right now while we are in the SSUSA playing that Hennessey sit up and listen to ALL divisions and what the players have to say. I do believe he is not concerned with the Major Plus division and if it went away he would be ok with that. Right now though that is where we are playing. I think combining 50 Major and 50 Major Plus will give us more teams and more then a best 2 out 3 tourn. 55 has the same problem 50 does - no teams. I have asked Ken with Mavericks and I am asking all Major Plus players to contact Hennessey's e mail and on here so he can hear us.
Have either 12 hr's and outs or pitcher off limits but not both. Making the matt bigger is not going to help. Players are still going to stand up there and take pitches. Start with a 1-1 count and free foul and the game will move along. If we have unlimited home runs that gets boring after awhile. We need to play ALL aspects of the game not see who can hit it the farthest and the most. Anybody can do that with a Miken in their hand. Keep the arch range where it is. Some of these pitchers get above 14' as it is and they are being called, giving them an additional height will get them higher.
We do not need to play seeding games on Friday if we continue with 2-3 teams a tourn. Our seeding games can be done Sat. and the 2 out 3 on Sunday and everybody get home Sunday eve. Not everybody is retired yet where we can be there on Friday and waste a vacation day or personal day.
In a message earlier I agree with knowing you won a tourn. with 10-15 teams and get a ring then a 2-3 team tourn. and get a ring. We want to see different teams then the same 2-4 over and over and over. If Hennessey doesn't want to listen to the Major Plus there are other organizations out there that we can go play and also do as Jim says, start a branch of Super Major and limit it to one outside pick up of touching states of the originating team address. If some teams are well financed they could buy any player and stack a team if we do not have boundaries. There are some teams that are self pay still. E MAIL HENNESSEY, Let him hear us.
I welcome your thoughts.
Feb. 27, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
173 posts
I've just about got the wrinkles ironed out and ready to post a definite proposal. I do want to make it clear once again since dceagleeye has posted about emailing Terry, that SS-USA, Terry Hennessey and Bill Ruth are in agreement to this proposal. We have their blessing to try and do what ever the major teams want to try. This will be a SS-USA sanctioned event with separate rosters from the program in place.
I am giving some thought to one new item. I know that there are many great teams from the past that would like to have a reunion. This can also be that format. I can remember the great Capitol Insulation teams of the past with many great stars that can still play. They arent playing and a reunion would be right in the philosophy of this program. Only problem would be that since the team hasnt played in 20 years a few of their players have moved out of the area. I'd like to propose that reunion teams be allowed to have their old players together on the roster without it counting against their out of area add. Does this make sense. I want rules of inclusion, not rules of exclusion.
Thank you for the private emails and phone calls. One email was a big surprise as I found an old dear friend from college Basketball days. I had no idea he was a major plus player and didnt recognize him. Senior Softball is terrific.
Feb. 27, 2008
tcadmw1
Men's 55
62 posts
Hi Jim,

Sorry for being so slow in adding to the discussion. Better late than never I guess???

I have read the enitre thread and I am pleased with what I read. Sounds like lots of great input and maybe teams will actually join in and make this happen? I hope so anyway!

I think it would be great if we could pull up some of the old posts related to this topic and include those ideas in your initial draft. I can't remember them all but some of them were very interesting.

I'm not a coach, manager or sponsor so my input is only from one players perspective. Audie runs the only Major+ team in the 50/55 division in Florida so his ideas I support if they help get more teams from this area to come and play. Florida teams play in the Florida Half Century just as the Texas program works. The Florida teams are very competitive in Florida but Audie's teams are the only one's who can really compete at this level due to the sponsorship issues. I think allowing teams to pickup outside the borders may help get more players and teams from Florida to participate at the Major+ level.

I also think that we need to consider keeping the run rules and time limits in place. Otherwise players will run out of gas early in the tournament. I for one can't see myself playing a two hour game running down (trying to run down) balls in the outfield with parks being over 300'. The best home run hitters don't run for themselves all the time so (I hate to admit this but) Einstein is right on about defense only players being important in games without time limits played on big ball fields.

Last for now anyway, combining age groups may get more teams in one division but it will lead to less teams overall in my opinion. 55's are 55 for a reason, they are old guys like me. Our best 50's team only has a couple of 55's on it. Our best 55's team only has one new 55 guy on it. Meaning: Teams ain't making younger 55 players, just getting older 50's players on them.... .LOL

Mike Walker
Hollis Appraisals 50/55
Feb. 27, 2008
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Jim
I think it is great what you are trying to do. You have stated that Terry and Mr. Ruth are aboard for this type of tournament, but have talked with Ridge Hooks about a roster change . The SSUSA is only one part of the summit SPA is another part in the partnership of the summit,if they do not agree with this format of players and teams playing in this type of tourney it will be a problem down the road if all the Summit member agree to this type of tournament.
Don Ward
Kittrell Softball
Feb. 28, 2008
Gary Heifner
248 posts
If you read the lines and also in between the lines, it openly admits that there are a lot of super major players ringing into the AAA levels. Why don't you guys just go for this full time and you will probably have a lot of teams make moves to this format. Once a super major-stay there.
It is very disconcerning to me that I might be playing against some guys in Phoenix this year at the AAA level and who banged out 15 or 20 Hrs in your tourney. I am not against your proposal, it is needed. I can see that where this division and format could become the largest in terms of team entries. If this takes off it would help cut down on teams that enter quietly into the big ones at AAA levels with 9 major/major + players.
Feb. 29, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Great thread Jim! I've been reading it since day one and think it has a good chance of becomming a reality.
I believe we need to keep the 1.20 bats to eliminate the temptation for some to use doctored/painted bats. The 44/375 balls should work nicely. I don't think we need to start with a 1-1 count, keep the 6-12 foot arc and I don't agree with platooning.
I'm sure the umpires will have to be paid more if the games are to last 1 1/2 to 2 hrs.
Feb. 29, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Hey Bruce,
How do you think we can grow the team count in these tourneys? Are you still in favor of combining the 50 and 55 divisions? I don't think anyone likes being locked in to the Major Plus evemts with the same 5 teams at best all the time. I would love to play in a 20 team event like AAA and AA get to do. If this project can somehow grow the team count in Major Plus events, it would be a huge success in my opinion.
Feb. 29, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
I don't mind combining the 50's and 55's. I also think that invitations should go to Major and AAA teams. Give them incentives to compete, maybe with a discounted entry fee or atleast some kind of equalizer, runs or extra fielder. It should be clear that if they do well it won't cause their team rating to change.
Feb. 29, 2008
tattooball
621 posts
I just want to through my 3 cents in here for a minute then I'll leave you all alone. The post is titled.
The way the game was meant to be played.
You gut's have talked about unlimited time, unlimited runs,
unlimited home runs. etc.

Now some want to keep the run rules and a time limit and let lower level teams get extra players, well shit that isn't how the game was played... It sounds to me by the time this tourny goes off you will all want to play by the current ss-usa rules anyway.
Can't you oldtimers make up you minds? LOL
Feb. 29, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Kevin,
One thing is clear to me that we all want the Major Plus program to grow. We get tired of seeing the same grumpy old men all the time. Can't you and all your big hitting buddies just hurry up and get old. : )
George
Feb. 29, 2008
tattooball
621 posts
George,
I'm going as fast as I can. Right now I feel like I'm 100, I have the flu and it is kicking my butt.
Feb. 29, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Kevin, I came down with the flu the Saturday of the TOC. We didn't have any extra player so I had to play. I've been home sick for the past 2 weeks, hopefully I be back at work on Tuesday.
As for your comment, I'm guessing you are refering to my post. I was just thinking that it would be better to play with 15 teams, half of which may be given runs or an 11th fielder than to play ony 4 or 5 teams.
Was the game ment to play with a double first base, two home plates pinch runners and a mat? I'm curious to see what the final rules will be.
Hope you feel better soon!
Feb. 29, 2008
GeHall44
Men's 55
92 posts
Hope you both feel better soon. So far my flu shot seems to be working or I've been lucky. Just got a cold that lasted a week, not too bad.
First local tourney March 8th, then Spring Worlds March 15 in Palm Springs. Looking forward to playing some ball again. See you guys on the fields.
March 2, 2008
the wood
1087 posts
For those of that are pronents of combining the 50 and 55 levels;
For the event that Jim 16 is planning, why don't you consider adding 45 teams to the 50 division? This might increase the number of major + teams without compromising the 55 teams. Since this is basically a non-sanctioned event, the '< than 50 thing' wouldn't be an issue.
Having played in every age division since 40+, it is my personal belief that there are less physical differences between those ages (45 & 50) than 50 & 55. Further, as we move up in age brackets the difference becomes exponentially greater. But this is just my opinion.
BW
March 4, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
1 and 1 count. Hold it in a destination city, like Las Vegas or Phoenix. We would have no desire to go play in the midwest with it's lousy weather. But this is a great idea!
March 5, 2008
Bob50
Men's 60
240 posts
Jawood, I agree with your opinion of starting with a 1 and 1 count but you sound like a wuss. You don't want to play in the midwest because of our lousy weather. I know for a fact that we have a least one week of good weather each year in June.
March 6, 2008
terrymac
46 posts
Guys, Not every senior softball player can hit a ball 300 feet. Age takes a toll on everyone. Some guys are lucky and get to the senior divisions in pretty good condition. God Bless you guys. Not everyone falls in this group. AA/AAA players are guys that love the game as much as anyone. I tire of hearing how the game SHOULD be played. God has given some the ability to still shine at an older age, but don't look down on the lower divisions. We may not play at your level but we play just as hard and with the the same emotion and love for the game. Terry McClaskey Ohio Silverado's 55 AA
March 6, 2008
WOW
197 posts
Terrymac
A-F**KING-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your not alone. Enough of the
"Me Tarzan you Jane" talk. Remember, there are more of you regular guys than these "The way the game was meant to be played" dudes........................
I think its a great idea for these guys to have there own organization.
Let them do what they want. go where they want. No reason to change our game for this crowd.
March 6, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Maybe Jim used poor judgement in his choice for the title of this thread. I don't believe he meant any disrespect and I'm sure that most of the posters here don't "look down" on the "lower divisions". I don't think that I have ever used the phrase "lower divisions". I really enjoyed playing AAA and Major in years past.
March 6, 2008
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Just wanted to add my thanks to TerryMac and WOW for expressing what many of us AAA/AA players believe. And thanks to Bruce for his comment. We hear the phrase "For the love of the game" a lot. It's true in all sports and at all levels of talent. If you want the best example, spend a weekend at your local Special Olympics. Reading this thread has been a bit scary, fearing that the little tail (major plus) was trying to wag thre big dog, which is the rest of us.
March 6, 2008
the wood
1087 posts
WOW, Terry & DG:
Why would you invite yourselves to a party when you already know that they don't serve the type of food and/or grog that you prefer? and then, of all things, complain about it?
This was intended to be a thread for major plus people and, knowing Jim as I do, he meant no offense to you and/or your psuedo political action group. We don't like some of the trends that we have seen and wanted to voice our feelings... Jim then decided to stage an event that would entail the specs that the majority of 'our guys' would like to see. This shouldn't threaten you in any way.
If there are things in AA/AAA that you do/don't like, start your own thread and pontificate over it. We'll know to stay away from it if you label it clearly... but if you also choose to use the description of 'the way the game is meant to be played', we promise to not give a rat's a$$.
WOW, we've been here before, haven't we? So you play AA/AAA... who really cares one way or another? The issues of your division do not impact us, for the most part... for this reason we (our guys) ought to mind our business. But if you have something VALID to add to our dialogue, then lets hear it.
No one is asking you to 'change your game for our crowd'... we're not talking about 'your game' at all... mix in an Evelyn Wood class if your reading comprehension doesn't allow you to grasp the finer points of this thread.
BW
March 7, 2008
WOW
197 posts
Hey Wood
How is Evelyn anyway.............Any relation?

I think any senior softballer takes offense to the way this thread reads. ["The way the game is supposed to be played"] Whats that supposed to mean. Nobody else has it right?
Thanks DG and TM. for your thoughts.
Does Evelyn have any class on interpretive thinking. Take it. Maybe you'd then be able to understand whats being said here....
PS, Bruce, you are a gentleman..........
March 7, 2008
terrymac
46 posts
Guys in no way was I being critical of the Major+ division. Most players would love to be as gifted as you guys. All I meant was there are different divisions and everyone plays the game as hard as they can, just different levels. Just glad to be able to still play. Thanks Bruce you are a class act. Terry Ohio Silverados
March 7, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
terrymac is 100% correct, I know many of the Major Plus players and I am sure 99% will never look down on the lower lever players. While I am only a lower Major player myself I can understand why they want to play at the highest lever they can. These "old guy" still have great ability and want to use it at their fullest potental.
I underestand that the 5/7 run inning rules suck, they even suck for all division. But limited runs and limited HR must really be a drag for the top softball players in the senior groups.
If we complain that we are not getting the same deal, then we must work hard as they do so we can play M+ softball.
I don't see any problem with anyone playing within their selves, being 60 and playing Major I am thrilled to still be playing at this level. The M+ players, I am sure work a lot harder at the game than I do.
They never have acted like they are Gods and us lower divisions are any less. They have gifts I wish I could have at this age.
I am sure if you ask anyone of them for help (as I have) they would go out of their way to help making your divisions better or you a better player. CST 08 there were several M+ players out on the 4 fields over 10 hours each day just helping other players with their swings, timing etc.
I sure some started at the lower lever and just worked harder to play better ball.
We all are equal men playing the game we all love, we need to keep working together and make our own divisions better. After all softball is TEAMWORK.
OK I am done, off to Sebring to play softball. Have a great week all.
CPope
March 7, 2008
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Mr. Wood- You may have missed the point or maybe we didn't say it very well. The thread would be a bit less offensive if it were called

Super Major Softball-The way we'd like to play it

Sorry to have riled you up. I appreciate your commentary here.
March 7, 2008
the wood
1087 posts
DG & Terry:
I have no real issue with either of you. Both Bruce and I made statements that were accepting of your comments about the original title of this post. But the guys for whom this post was/is intended feel that the major plus game is the way it was intended to be played. If the AA/AAA guys feel differently, we understand... after all, we all love to play the game at this age and in the way that we prefer.
Were the circumstances reversed, perhaps we would have been miffed at the title... but don't judge a book by its cover.
This is still a post intended for major plus guys to talk issues that are indigenous to us. We recognize that we are in the minority and also that the other divisions generate more revenue than our division does. None of this is relevant in this particular post. This post is for the major plus guys to give Jim the input that he initially requested so that he could design a major plus event that WE would find most attractive... and, as a result, WE would commit to making the trip.
No offense taken with either of you (from me).

WOW:
You seem to relish the antagonist role but since no one really knows who you are, your efforts are in vain... do you understand the concept of 'spitballs at a battleship?' If it's personal attention that you need, there are a variety of solutions that you could consider... if you'd like some suggestions, you can reach me @ awtgroupsc@aol.com.
In the interim, you might recognize that this post is for M+ players to offer their feedback about a future M+ event. Again, if you have something VALID to add, feel free... if not, start a post that interests you as you have made it clear that anything about M + is of total disinterest to you.
Yes, Bruce is a gentleman.
Evelyn Wood and I are only slightly related... she is from the same general area as me but her family dropped the second syllable after leaving the old country.

CPope:
You are absoultely correct in your assertion that many of the M + players go out of their way to help players in other divisions... and also to help non-tournament players. Having played some AAA and major myself, I agree with your point about the difference in work ethic. There are players in the other divisions that work hard but the % of those that do isn't as high as the M + players. Still, we have some in our division that don't really work at it.
But all of these distractions have taken the attention away from what Jim has been trying to do. I apologize for my part in them, Jim.
Bob Woodroof
March 7, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
How is this proposal moving along. A New team made up of parts from existing teams will need some amount of advanced notice to participate. I'm going to try my damndest to coordinate something if I can. Looking forward to the proposal.
March 7, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2691 posts
Thanks guys, for the compliment, I'll have to show this to my wife!
As for playing the way we want to play, the World Softball Association wanted me to spread the word of their Senior National and Senior World Invitational tournament. The National Inv. Tournament is scheduled for May 23-26 in Gainsville, Ga and the World Inv. Tournament is scheduled for Sept 26-28 in Atlanta. For more info go to their website at www.wsasoftball.com.
I believe their hr rules are 4 hr hitters.
March 9, 2008
chollis
79 posts
JIm,
Thanks for your hard work in putting this together. I agree with Audie Audie's first 7 points. I would like to suggest you play the tournament in a stadium and make it a one of a kind tournament, If you did play in a stadium you may need to increase the balls to 44/525's, increase the base lengths and play double elimination with no seeding games. Let me know if I can help in anyway.

Sorry Mike Walker, I know you have enough room to cover already.
curt hollis
March 10, 2008
DoubleL10
Men's 65
836 posts
Yeah, Curt, but Mike is not 62 like I am! I would not relish many games running around in left field with the huge gaps on the stadium fields!

Realistically, though, I played at the new complex in Naples with the 325' fences and it's not too bad unless you have to play several games in one day!

Good luck to all this season and stay healthy! LL
March 10, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Just a thought on the true double elimination format if your looking for teams to test the waters most teams that would try this probably don't have a real good chance to win, let's pick Dallas under best conditions your probably talking $500-$750 dollars per man and a vacation day for the chance to go 0-2. It's a tough economy I don't think I could sell that scenario.
March 10, 2008
chollis
79 posts
DoubleL 10 I just want Walker to work hard for those MVP's! Actually, a guy with his talent would really show out on the larger outfields more so than the 300' fields. If they held the tournament in a stadium you would be lucky to get two games a day in because every team would be on the same field.

Lecak, You may have a point but the younger teams do it every weekend. You could do a triple elimination if you had multiple fields. You probably couldn't do it in a stadium.
March 11, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3948 posts
as i said earlier in this post waco,tx would have the fields you would need.its about 2hrs south(easy drive down the I-35) of dallas with plenty of housing that is not that expensive.i like this try by jim to get something for the M+ guys.if this would be a one time event i wouldn't mind being able play in this,i don't have a M+ team at the moment.git-r-done jim.
March 13, 2008
4x4
Men's 65
597 posts
Locations -

If anyone has not mentioned Las Vegas of Reno before as possible locations these might not be a bad alternative. The flights can usually be found at discounted prices & the hotels, food, & entertainment are reasonable.

Part of the challenge here is going to be finding exactly what fits most of the needs as a workable (location/destination) solution.
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
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