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Discussion: what is the outcome of a runner being hit by a batted ball?

Posted Discussion
March 19, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
what is the outcome of a runner being hit by a batted ball?
What is the rule for a runner being hit (batted ball) while in contact with one of the three bases? I had never seen it happen until last year and I saw it three different times. I will be interested in the responses to this.
We were playing a 60 team from AZ and they were ALL certain that the runner was out and the batter wasn't (it happened to our runner when we played them). Even after the umpire ruled on it they were less than satisfied... and he conferred with the acting TD before doing so.
Still other teams felt, that because the runner was touching the bag, that the ball was live and the fielder could make whatever plays he could.
This will be good for everyone to know, in my opinion. I know that there are many umpires that read and post on here.
So what is the correct ruling?
BW
March 19, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
263 posts
Bob:
Same thing happened to us last year at Camp Pendleton. We had a very knowledgeable ump and the rule book was also reviewed to resolve the issue. The short story on the rule is that the runner is not out, if they are struck by a batted ball in fair territory as long as they are in contact with the base when they are hit. There is a second level of the rule that I don't remember exactly, but it had to do if the ball was dead or live after hitting a runner in contact with a base. It had something to do if the ball continued it's flight in front of a runner that could make a play on it. Bottom line, the runner is not out, nor is the batter under these circumstances.
March 20, 2008
T.Burk
48 posts
The runner, if in contact with the base is not out. The batter becomes a runner and is awarded a hit and moved to first base. All runners move up one base if they are forced off of the base they occupy. The ball is declared dead if the fielders are behind the runner who is struck by the ball. It is a live ball if they are in front of the runner. Hope this helps.
March 20, 2008
J3
208 posts
SSUSA Rule 8.1 C-1 says runner is not out if in contact with base and ball is live. Says nothing about position or location of the fielders.
March 20, 2008
J3
208 posts
ISA same situation, ball is dead, no qualification as to position of the fielders. Rule 7-1-g
March 20, 2008
terrymac
46 posts
What you really hope is that the runner is still ALIVE. There are times in the games when the players are more important then the game.
March 20, 2008
ssalt
Men's 70
9 posts
Can I add one question that has puzzled me for some time? What if there are runners on first and second and the batted ball hits the runner while he is touching second? Is he still safe because he is still touching the base or is he out because once the batter becomes a baserunner the runner on second is no longer entitled to the base?
March 20, 2008
J3
208 posts
I'm not an umpire but if the ball is alive, then the runner on second must make third and the runner on first must make second and the batter must make first. If a dead ball, then both runners would advance and the batter gets first.
March 20, 2008
allworld
Men's 50
19 posts
if i'm not mistaken, the ball is live if a fielder can't make a play, and play is resumed just like a base hit. if the fielder could make a play the runner is out and the batter is awarded 1st base. this is what the ruling states i believe, but maybe they changed the rule from last year.
March 20, 2008
VegasPaul
Men's 60
30 posts
Per the SPA rule book the ball is DEAD and runner is not out.
k. When a runner is in contact with the base, and is hit by a batted ground ball or fly ball in fair territory, the base runner is not out and the ball is dead.
EFFECT: Rule 8 Sec 11 k, Ball is dead and all runners advance one (1) base, if forced.

Per the SSUSA rule book 13.1 C "If a runner is hit by a batted ball while touching a base, he is not out. SSUSA rule is not clear if this situation is a dead ball.
March 20, 2008
J3
208 posts
Paul check 2008 SSUSA cited above its says live ball. Rues appear to be renumbered from last year
March 20, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
My point in opening this thread was to see if many players/umpires really knew this rule. I suspect that the verbiage varies from assn to assn but the underlying theme is the same... the ball is dead, neither the runner nor the batter are out and everyone moves up one base.
J3:
If the rule book states the final outcome of the play (i.e. batter and runner are not out, everyone moves one base) then it has to be a dead ball. Otherwise how could the outcome always be the same?
I'd never seen this occur until last April in LV and it happened twice within an hour (2 separate games). On one of them, it hit the runner on 1st base and went out of play. This caused everyone to presume that it was a ground rule double, myself included. The ruling was that the ball was already dead when it hit the runner, therefore anything happening after that is irrelevant... other than if the runner from third base stepped on the wrong home plate (this didn't happen).
When it happened again in Tucson (Dec '07), the other team was extremely adamant that they were getting hosed on the ruling... some of them were complaining about it all the way to the parking lot. Perhaps had we not seen it earlier in the year we would have been just as skeptical.
But we didn't make it up... the rule is what it is. Had it happened the other way around, we would told the umpire our interpretation in order to get it right... if he/she didn't already know it.
It behooves all of us to know the rules... it will save a lot of knashing of teeth at some point.
BW
March 20, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
great point bw they should all read the rule book and learn a thing or two
April 14, 2008
allworld
Men's 50
19 posts
i hate to bust your bubble, but in senior softball the ball is live and runners run at their on risk. its only a dead ball if a fielder could have fielded the ball the runner is out and the batter is awarded 1st base, its a judgement call by the umpire
April 15, 2008
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
allworld.............are you an umpire? Making it a judgement call by the umpire doesn't sound like a good rule. We have written rules, do you have the one making this a judgement call?
April 15, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
All world:
I just received my 2008 SSUSA rule book and looked for that rule (on Sunday). I read it and am surprised to see it written in the way that it is. If I'm reading it correctly, no one is out when a runner is hit by a batted ball (while touching a base) but the ball is LIVE.
The rulings on the field have been that it was a dead ball and that each runner (including the batter) moved up one base. In addition, I have asked for a clarification from a person in Sacramento (Dec '07) and they concurred with the field rulings... i.e. 'safe harbor' when runner is touching a base.
But the 2008 book does state that it's a live ball. My question now is... was the rule changed or is their further clarification in the book that I missed? I did not read the book cover to cover.
Dave D, has the rule changed or have I read it incorrectly?
BW
April 15, 2008
softball4b
Men's 60
756 posts
Aren't you glad we are playing Senior and not Little league. In LL, the runner is NOT protected by the bag and the runner is out, dead ball. Batter goes to 1st base. Try explaining that to the manager, coaches and MOMS.
April 15, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
Monta, having stated this, what is your interpretation of the rule (as it relates to SSUSA)? Have they changed it from last year or have I read it wrong?
BW
April 15, 2008
VegasPaul
Men's 60
30 posts
the Wood
SSUSA did clarify the rule from 2007. In 2007 the runner was not out if hit by a ball when on a base but the rule did not state if the play resulted in a live or dead ball. In 2008 they added an EFFECT that the ball is LIVE.
1. If the runner is hit with a fair batted ball while touching a base, he is not out. EFFECT: The ball is live and play continues.

Any BOLD LETTERED rules in 2008 are revisions from 2007.

It is hard to equate rules between 2007 and 2008 as SSUSA renumbered the rules. Section 13 is now section 8

As stated before in SPA the ball is DEAD. In ASA it depends where the fielder is positioned so it could be LIVE or DEAD.
April 15, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
VP:
I spoke with Dave D today and he had spoken with Otis Rowland, the SSUSA UIC. According to them, and I know both of them to be very reliable sources, the ball hitting a runner (while touching a base) is still a 'safe haven'... ball is dead.
however, I'm going to re-read the book and give DD the page and rule number.
BW
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