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Discussion: oppinion senior game hitting or fielding

Posted Discussion
March 22, 2008
rihoba2
4 posts
oppinion senior game hitting or fielding
what is the oppinion of most ,is this a hitters game or fielders game? i say ,hitters game we spend some 300.00 for bats have more batting practice than fielding practice if any. bottom line: fielding will keep you in a game but hitting will win it
March 22, 2008
MTM
Men's 70
25 posts
Hitters game. Just look at the scores. Even with 5 run innings they generally are high. Also as you get older you tend to lose defensive skills because your speed, sight and reflexes go but you can still hit. Watch a 60 + game and you will see that most of the time if a ball is hit directly over a fielders head they rarely catch it. Hit it in the gap they will get to it more often then over there head. When younger with the above lacking attributes it didn't matter where it was hit.
March 23, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
I still go by the old adage which kinds of applies to all sports.

Offense keeps you in the game and defense wins it
March 23, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Slowpitch softball has always been a hitters game. Most players who think otherwise hit about .500 with no power.
March 23, 2008
2awesom
Men's 50
296 posts
I would have to aagree to an extent.

It's obvious that Slow Pitch Softball is a Hitter's Game.

However, stellar defense, running the bases etc.

can and does give you advantage if you still have

what it takes in those 2 area's. I think, at least in the

50 Age Bracket, that hitting is #1 but defense & base

running are not far behind.
March 24, 2008
MTM
Men's 70
25 posts
Just look at the various tournament final scores as shown on the web site. The scores don't show much defense. Slowpitch was designed to be a hitters game. You bat 500 in a slowpitch tournament and you are not considered a good hitter. Bat 500 in a fastpitch tournament and you are considered a very good hitter. So I guess it all comes down to what one considers good defense.
March 24, 2008
cutty
42 posts
Defense matters a lot. Consider a good defense palyer acounting for minus 4 runs or more a game..Example (a great catch with the bases loaded) In the NBA a block shot could help win a game. In softball it does not show up in the stats. That,s why it,s not looked at......MVP,s and all-tournment are bosed on batting avg. Think about it.
March 24, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
my AAA team has had to play this M+ team(we are both 55+) twice in the last 2 yrs and have beaten them both times by a large margin(1 time by AAA rules and 1 time straight up),now before i get the move up cat calls,this is a team that basically refuses to get defensive players and goes with the long ballers.alls we did was hit and make them have to move and field balls and they couldn't.do i think they should be in M+,no but they continue to do so,so thats thier prolblem.
yes i do think defense is important as much as offense.you can have a bad day at the plate and still win a game if the D is good,can't say that if the tables are turned (playing D poorly)most of the time.heck we got beat in the same tourney by a 60 AA(seeding game) b/c we didn't play a good D and didn't hit also,so go firgure.
March 24, 2008
MTM
Men's 70
25 posts
Just curious what where the scores of the games. Where your runs scored on errors or where they scored on hits? maybe your team is a better hitting team then the other team and maybe they didn't belong in the major or major + bracket. A true major or major plus team can hit a lot of home runs. A true triple or double a team should not be able to hit a lot of balls over the fence. If they are hitting the way they are supposed to hit you will have to score a lot of runs to beat them. You may make a lot of nice defensive plays but you will still have to hit to beat them. It takes 21 outs (provided you can play 7 innings, ha ha in a tournament) and they don't have to be good defenisve plays to end a game. If you don't hit you won't win.
March 24, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
MTM if you had to get 21 outs in senior ball the games would never end. The 5 or 7 run limits except M+ in SPA keep the games from going crazy. I've seen games where the opposing team only got a couple of outs on defense.
March 24, 2008
MTM
Men's 70
25 posts
That's my point. It becomes who outhits who. I played on a major team two years ago in a tournament where they combined the major and major plus teams in one bracket. We beat a major plus team in bracket play with a score of 14-13. We played them in the elimination round and they were beating us so bad we stopped the game. So all I'am saying is no matter how good you play defensively you still have to outhit the other team.
March 24, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The importance of defense, eh?
Just a minute while I whip this out.
(thanks to Blazing Saddles)

Defense is the bomb.

Defense is the difference between two teams
with comparable hitting and at Major plus level
everyone hits.
As Larry Campbell, coach of MTC 55's out of Califiornia has often said,
It's "take aways" that win close games.

It's the way a lesser hitting team can win.
In double elimination game a couple of years ago for a National Championship
Kellys's turned 5 double plays in a game to beat a very good team.

It keeps good team "in the game" when the bats
get quiet.

Defense can break the spirit/momentum
of a monster hitting opposing team
at any time in a game or throughout a whole game.

And it all starts with the pitcher.
The difference between the best elite clubs in softball
is, "Guess what?".
The pitcher.
It's the first thing I learned about Major plus and winning championships.
The team with the nastiest pitcher, coupled with great defense
will usually win the tournament.
Just the way it is.

So, you guys who don't understand the true value of pitching and defense
go on thinking you just had an off day hitting and that's why
you didn't win T-H-E or tournament or T-H-E game.
We pitchers love it when you don't realize
how much great pitchers like A/C Linde, Mickey Hughes and
Billy from last years Mavericks and tough pitchers
like Rusty of the Mavericks, John Dorsett of MTC,
little Spanish Ray of the old Redwood City Reds
can influence any at-bat or any game.
March 24, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
I would love to say defence, but most of the time it's HITTING the ball.
Phoneix this past year (60 Major) we made only 5 outs the entire game (6 innings) and lost.
Making 2 outs in the first inning before scoring 5 runs, scoring 5 runs the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th with out making an out. Then scoring 3 the last inning before making the third out and lose 28 to 29. They had a 9 run top of last inning so I know we got them out more than 5 times.
But I agree defence in very important and most games don't play out like our game out West.
BTW it was played under the lights and you could not see the ball at all. I think it was Desert West Complex.
March 24, 2008
the wood
1085 posts
Joe, I couldn't agree with you more. Yes, slow pitch is a hitter's game, at any level... but it is the 'take aways' that win big games.
I recognize that the max run/inning rules influence the game somewhat but there is still the open inning to contend with. When someone turns a hit into an out or a double play, it really hurts the opposing team. I know that errors hurt in the opposite way.
I also feel that a good pitcher makes a big difference. In PS we played with 50 mph winds and the ability to throw strikes in the face of it was very important.
But, like any other team sport, one without the other is not a successful strategy (defense and/or offense). We could look at NCAA basketball, pro football, MLB, etc. and which team has won it all with a poor defense? I personally can't think of one.
Bottom line to me:
One a given day, it could be either that lets you down or picks you up... you'd best have both if you want to win your last game.
BW
March 24, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3937 posts
mtm,both game we scored well into the 20's with them scoring in the teen's.in the first one last yr(AAA rules) they did hit hrs but were only allowed to count 1 with the rest walks or singles.we didn't hit any against them.
the second game this yr straight up,neither team hit any hrs.we played 7 innings.we did have a wind blowing in somewhat,we just basehitted and got some gap shots in on them.we played good D on them and they didn't.
i still think d and pitching will get you more wins than the ol try to hit them out attitude.
March 24, 2008
diehard
Men's 55
245 posts
While I agree that this is a hitters game, good defense can win games. I played for a 50 AAA team in the World Championships in Phoenix last year. We scored in the 20's every game but our defense was so poor that it cost us . Good pitching, good defense and great consistant hitting is the key to winning alot of games in softball!
March 24, 2008
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I believe it is a hitters game. However, we try and stress just make the routine plays that we are supposed to make. Cut away at the 21 outs each team gets in a game.
March 25, 2008
Cognac Lite
Men's 50
32 posts
It's been some time since I have been to this site. Things have been pretty busy down here in the Cool, literally, Sunshine State. I couldn't resist expressing my opinion on this particular subject.

Jawood's comment really tickled me. I couldn't stop laughing. "Most players who think otherwise hit about .500 with no power." Most means majority. That's pretty far out there. If a team hits and make the routine plays, at some point during the game a player will come up with a big defensive play. That team usually wins the game. Usually, a BIG HIT comes after a poor defensive play.

If a team can't field, the 1/2 inning is extended. The gap usually widens which allows hitters to free swing---NO PRESSURE.

Jawood, there are teams that can hit the crap out of the ball. However, if you can't get anybody out, you may not get a chance to hit. I would much rather play on a team that can do both. It's very depressing watching an inning being extended because of poor fielding.

I am fortunate; I have the opporunity to play with guys who possess both skills.

Oh yea! They do hit for power....I AM TALKING ABOUT BOMBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In order to win, you must hit. In order to win championships, you must do both and do both well.
March 25, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Most, majority, it's all the same. OK 51% of players think that it is a hitters game, is that better for you, Cognac? I didn't say that defense never plays a part in deciding who wins and loses. Hopefully our teams will meet this summer after you stop laughing.
March 26, 2008
Cognac Lite
Men's 50
32 posts
Jawood, thank you for clarifying the percentage. However, 51% is still a little high. But, I looking at the map and where are you are from, I can see why our opinions differ. You are on the west coast, and I am on the east coast.....Left Coast vs RIGHT coast.....just kidding.

I hope our teams do get an opportunity to compete against each other. I am sure the teams will put on a show. Tell me, are you a catcher or extra hitter? I hope you found humor in that question. Also, what division do you participate?
March 26, 2008
Joncon
289 posts
If it was a defensive game we wouldn't need the 5 run rule.
March 26, 2008
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
here's my 2 cents, 75% hitting and 25% gloves. But that 25% can turn the tide in a game. For the guys that think it's all hitting, i bet they never leave their gloves on the bench when they take the field. How many time has a ball gone thru the legs of someone or under a out fielders glove and that costs a game , much less a tourney win. Defence does make a difference. Can't wait for spring, i'm tired of the rain here in the mid-west. Good Luck to all this year. Lazer Coors Light 11
March 26, 2008
lazer larry
Men's 50
96 posts
here's my 2 cents, 75% hitting and 25% gloves. But that 25% can turn the tide in a game. For the guys that think it's all hitting, i bet they never leave their gloves on the bench when they take the field. How many time has a ball gone thru the legs of someone or under a out fielders glove and that costs a game , much less a tourney win. Defence does make a difference. Can't wait for spring, i'm tired of the rain here in the mid-west. Good Luck to all this year. Lazer Coors Light 11
March 26, 2008
Gary Heifner
248 posts
Another thought. From my 45 years playing 12" and 16", all the defensive positions are important. However, I have noticed that if you have a left center fielder with speed and a good glove shortstop with an arm, you have a team that will be very hard to beat.
March 27, 2008
Conman
Men's 50
72 posts
Cognac,

Hey big fella how've you been? Still trying to be the tallest shortstop in senior softball or are you heading
back out to the garden in the outfield?

Still not 100% gotten over that cold I had at the TOC. Forgotten what it's like to sleep laying down instead of sitting up at night. At one point I had lost about 15 pounds ... of course that's like throwing a lifeboat off a cruise liner. Talked with Curt Hollis' wife Debbie yesterday and she said she still had the bug also. Seems like a lot of folks can't shake it.

Hope all is well and maybe we'll see you at the Spring national next month. Take care and be safe.


Dave (Conman)
March 27, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
798 posts
Yes, Cognac our opinions differ as a far as we are from one another, rainy Seattle to some sunny place in Florida. I used to be a tall shortstop like you back in the day but I have been sliding over to the other side to first the last few years. Our team in Major.
March 28, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
All I can add to this topic is my personal experience :
When I was playing class B ball , our team went to La. for a World Tournament. I was a 2nd baseman then. I got into the worst slump anyone could ever get in, no matter what I did I either hit it right at someone or someone made a great catch on me.
After one game of many , my coach came up and said he was going to let the other 2B play as I wasn't getting on base. I told him I understood and after a while I went to the other player and tried to pump him up to play. I saw several of the players talking to the coach and didn't know what that was all about. I went and got a Bud Light and as I was reflecting on the lack of hitting I had done , my coach came up tp me and told me to warm up. I said I thought I was down this game he said the top players came to him when they found out I was going to sit out and told the coach , you can't sit him out, he has saved more runs with his defense than he could ever bat in. So I got to play , I had some great diving plays and we won the game 1(still didn't hit) So I believe both are equally important. But the final word is you HAVE TO SCORE RUNS TO WIN!!
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