http://www.mikensports.com/

 
SIGN IN:   Password     »Sign up

Message board   »Message Board home    »Sign-in or register to get started

Online now: 0 members ; 15 anonymous
Change topic:

Discussion: 2010 Grandfathered bats

Posted Discussion
April 20, 2008
Dinger
2 posts
2010 Grandfathered bats
I read somewhere in a post that some bats will be grandfathered thru the year 2010. Can someone help me understand what this is all about? I have been using my original Freak since 2002 which is now illegal for use in ASA play and am struggling to replace it with something that will still generate some pop. I don't want to spend several hundred dollars for a replacement that will just end up being banned in a year or so down the line. i.e. The COM Anti-Virus/ Rip it Reaper/ Red Miken Recoil Easton Stealth. Your input is welcomed! Thanks!
June 18, 2008
stattad
Men's 65
168 posts
I can't believe this was never answered. I have these EXACT same questions, as I am about to buy a league bat.
June 18, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4365 posts
I doubt that any will be or were grandfathered as you say. Check ASA's web site... under equipment and bats...
I do not think there is any info up yet for that far into the future however.
As for bats mentioned all are great bats, BUT all are also 98mph bats, the new standard I believe will lower the bat speed down to 94 or so,
I'd wait to see how ASA tinkers with the legal bats as they are known to do.
June 19, 2008
tattooball
619 posts
when ASA grandfathered in the 100 mph bats it was only 9 models. With the change to the test the new bat will be made not to exceed 98 mph after break in. So yes the will start around 92-94 mph.

As for grandfathering in the old bats, it really is not a grandfathering. They are legal and will remain legal until they play themselves out of the game. There is 1000's of asa legal bats that will not pass this test including some of the metal bats. So it would make almost all of the ASA bats illegal. Rest assured if you buy a bat today you will be able to use it until it breaks.

Joe
you're up.....
June 20, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Trumpball
Aren't the original freaks "grandfathered" in by ASA a couple of years ago now illegal?
June 20, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
it is illegal in asa but good in NSA! AND SENIORS
June 21, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
First, I don't see any necessary connection between senior ball and ASA or any association for that matter.
Maybe I'm spoiled being in California where we have the best senior softball players in the country but thanks to independent thinking guys like
Gary Tryrhorn, we in NorCal make our own rules and if tournament directors
don't like 'em, we don't play.
We use the balls and bats, get this Kevin and Terry
that WE decide we want to play with.
How you like them apples!

And if the rest of senior softball wants to sit down and take break
while all the important decisions that relate to us and the game we love
than you get what you deserve.
Great quote coming,
"When you don't know (care) where you're going,
you always wind up, somewhere else."

I'm done with being spoken for and pushed around by powerful, often ignorant
self seeking individuals whom always seem to know what's going on and what's best for me.
June 21, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Trumpball and Softballer
Thanks for your reply. I'm sure most players are not worried about Senior Ball in regards to the grandfathered in bats since most will use a senior bat.I believe Dinger and others are worried about purchasing these ASA bats that are suppose to be "grandfathered" in. I know I am.

I too was burned by ASA the last time around. I rushed to purchase a couple of original freaks that I found online. I have one sitting in my garage that I can not use. So Trumpball forgive me when I say I will NOT "Rest assured that a bat I buy today I will be able to use it until it breaks". Unless you know something about ASA that the rest of us don't. Any info please share.
Thanks,
Big Lou
June 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4365 posts
Joe,
Not to ruffle any feathers here, but I do not think anything was mentioned about Senior bats or balls in the thread start. Dinger just wanted info on what he might be able to in ASA games. Bats mentioned by him were all ASA, and remarks made were geared to that but for the Freak which was correctly replied to by softballer and as you know, he knows his stuff.
Just look at all the threads on here, are the movie trivia, softball related...No, just another something that players have some sort of interest in.
This file is a great "play" by a non player... do a search for it since you can't attack live filed here & watch it...Ballgirl.wmv Grizzles game against Tacoma.
It too is non senior ball related, and doubt any senior player could do this.
June 21, 2008
tattooball
619 posts
Joe,
Once again ignorence is bliss, you once again have taken a thread that has nothing to do with senior softball and try to manipulate it into a thread for your own personal agenda. I am begining to wonder if the senior bat is the only reason you can compete at the level you do, it does seem as though if those bats are gone you are finished with senior softball. Why would you be embarrassed? Maybe you are not the caliber of player without them. Maybe you just have no life and if it does not involve a ultraII you just want to beat it to death.

READ CAREFULLY JOE, The question was about if ASA was going to ban the 98+ mph bats.

Read before you post you may look more intelligent than you appear.

WTF, does that have to with you crying about senior bats?????????
June 21, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
When you dont know where you're going, you always wind up somewhere else....Looks like Joe proved it to be true. The conversation was about ASA and Joe ended up SOMEWHERE ELSE.
June 22, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I could have sworn this was a Senior Softball Site and everything here
relates to senior softball or should, including ideas Kevin, Terry et al may have about what's in our best interests and as such I am interested and so should all of us be.
Senior softball players need to hear and know what's going on in the bushes
and behind the sheds to make informed decisions about our investments
going forward.
Something wrong with that, Kevin?
You really have a problem with being countered or opposed,
don't you?

As for my record as a senior softball player it speaks for itself.
Careful, Kevin, your fangs are showing"
June 22, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Scott,
All this talk about 94 mph bats and dumb balls
provides an important backdrop for the direction
the sport goes in.
Senior ball is/has been influenced by some of the thinking
that goes into ASA stuff.
My opinion is we should keep 'em separate
but forwarned is forarmed.
My point is to get involved and
not take important stuff for granted
and to realize that powerful self interests
just like in the "real world" can end up
winning the battle while we all stand by and
lose the war.
June 22, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4365 posts
Joe,
I agree with players need to be very concerned & aware of what is transpiring within the senior assn's. But as you know I do not play major or +. I do not like being tagged with the label. But am very much interested in the transformations wanted. Expressing here is one way to get info be it vague, accurate or totally off base. But it's like voting, don't complain if you didn't vote.
ASA does have a senior segment for tournaments, but it is not anything close to what you'd expect from an org of it's stature. They can not say they have not been told either.
As for balls, I'm against the new ones. Some guys have a hard enough time getting a ball out of the infield, let alone worrying about trying to figure out where they would have to hit a ball to get it to fly.
I do not know nor do i remember ever having delt with trumpball directly, but sure have bought bats and a few other item from them. His disclosure on the Evil balls is disheartening to me. My what strange bed fellows one makes in business ventures or otherwise. But this thread is not about that.
Seriously on the M+ thing, I personally do not like having different rules for different divisions. But even if it happens I think everyone (players) of all divisions will go along with it including myself. It's bad enough there are different rules already within them. Some suggested are good. there are over twice as many major teams than + teams out there so i feel they should some say in them as well. Chances are many will on both sides go back and fourth between the two any way, and should have a say.
June 22, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Trumpball
To get back on topic of the original post. How can we trust ASA to honor their existing bats with a grandfather clause “until it breaks” as you say. Those of us that have been burned before with purchases of the original freaks might be hesitant to rush to purchase the remaining 98 mph bats that are available today. Are you gauranteeing that ASA will grandfather them in until they break? If so I might be willing to purchse a couple.
Big Lou
June 22, 2008
jim16
Men's 65
169 posts
BigLou, I am going to try and answer your question without taking up a whole lot of time. I havent posted much in the past about this subject but will try to inform some of youu who are interested.
When ASA or any ass'n puts their stamp of approval on a bat, they are in essence guaranteeing that it meets their standards. They take money for doing that. When an assn and a manufacturer get crossways and the assn bans a bat, its the consumer who loses, not the assn or bat co.
I have been in the courtroom on this very issue.
"Your honor, I paid $300 for this bat and it has the ASA stamp of approval. I relied on the validity of that stamp. I went out to the park and the ASA would not allow me to use it. Now, your Honor, I dont care about the argument between the ASA and Miken. I am asking you to either make them give me my money back or make them allow me to use the bat.'
That is a wininng argument in court and is a classic example of a class action suit.
The ASA is now waiting for 3 years to ban a bat. Their argument is, we are willing to buy back the bats in question, but how much is a 3 year old composite bat that has a life expectancy of one year worth? They feel it is $10. Anyone would pay $10 for all of the old freaks or synergy II's that are not broken. Thats how they are now approaching the legal issue. Therefore, I'd say its safe to say that a bat will have to be about 3 years old before the ASA bans it in the future. If they ban one quicker, it'll be back to court. Lawyers are hungry these days and it would be another winable case.
Hope this helps in a small way.
June 22, 2008
tattooball
619 posts
Biglou,
The bats that were grandfathered were just that 9 bats with a clause. I knew the day they grandfathered them that it would only be for 4 years.
Those bats were 100mph bats that had gotten made before ASA announced their new standard would be 98 mph, one of the manufactures fought to have them grandfathered so they would not lose alot of money.

The bats in question are not grandfathered, they are legal 98 mph bats that conform to the test they that approved them . They, ASA has made a modification to the test so all new bats have to pass that test.

So to answer your question they are legal and conform to ASA's bat test, not a grandfather clause.

Everyone remembers they GRANDFATHERED bats in 2004. None of these bats will be grandfathered.
June 22, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Trumpball
Thanks for clearing that up.
Big Lou
Oct. 19, 2008
Dinger
2 posts
This was like a joke that starts out pretty funny and by the time it's made the circuit, it's no longer a joke. I waited two months for a reply, and there were none. I gave up and didn't come back till today only to find a whole lot about nothing close to the thread start. Except Jim 16. At least he was on topic. Couple other good stabbs (which are appriciated) but most just look like a forum to bitch about something else. If we all need something to Bitch about, Lets start a forum about SSUSA and their field assignments. Seems they are always schedueling us at one field (so we get rooms near by) only to find out less than two weeks prior to the start of of the show, they've moved our playing fields to another part of town. An extra hour drive at 7 AM rush hour in Phoenix? Thanks SSUSA! I know you can do better.
Take it away boys.
Oct. 20, 2008
softball4b
Men's 60
744 posts
It is entirely appropriate to discuss what bats will be allowed in other associations. Most of us continue to play in leagues or tournaments that are not limited to Seniors only. Whether this be local leagues or local tournaments, therefore in order to play the game we love, our bat bag should contain bats relative to same. Ii my bat bag tight now, I have 2 Senior Bats, 1 ASA composite, and 1 single wall as well as aspirin, ibuprofen, and naproxen :-)

Bottomline - Joe you are off base. This is an economic issue affecting all of us and a valid thread.

Regarding what is and what is not going to be legal. Risk / Reward, if you want the best bat available then you take the risk that it will be illegal before it breaks. Divide the cost of the bat by the number of months of use.....if it worth $25 a month....more or less........then buy the "hot" bat.......if not drop a level and never worry about. Brian Macdougal buys one bat every decade and is playing 50 Major. Not my cup of tea, but it works.
Oct. 20, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Mike,
Quite simply and maybe it means I think to simply but
everything in softball affects everything else.
If ASA makes a significant movement toward
dumbing down balls, bats and conditions(screens)
it stands as an important reference and influence in our game.

All personalities aside we need to be aware and kept aware of any
all movements in softball as seniors to have the best oppty
to protect and guide ourselves going forward.
As I have said and is demonstrated everywhere in society
an unguided, unregulated market place will take it's toll on us, all of us
so we MUST be aware and proactive
when determining what is and isn't in our best interest in Senior Ball.
Oct. 22, 2008
DCPete
234 posts
Any truth to the rumor being spread by some ASA umps that they are moving to a 50 cor/275 compression ball for next year and allowing USSSA bats?
Oct. 22, 2008
DCPete
234 posts
Any truth to the rumor being spread by some ASA umps that they are moving to a 50 cor/275 compression ball for next year and allowing USSSA bats?
Oct. 22, 2008
DCPete
234 posts
Any truth to the rumor being spread by some ASA umps that they are moving to a 50 cor/275 compression ball for next year and allowing USSSA bats?
Oct. 22, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
i got caught in the ASsA ban this yr,i had 4 syn-2's(have kept 2 for usssa) and 2 freaks and oh they fell in price also,so i can't sell them for any real value now.i thought i would never have to buy an ASsA bat again,boy is my butt sore from the biting.now ASsA is saying if your 98 mph bat tests out to be more after you have hit it,(by thier squeeze test)it will no longer be allowed and u have to go buy a new one.u should be able to use it till it breaks IMO.the new bats now are supposed to test at(i think ) 94 mph new,someone help me out here,so they never get over the 98 mph when fully broke in.well my rant on this.
Oct. 22, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1007 posts
Bob belated thanks for getting me out of my little slump. Google the easton Reavealed bats, the bats are clear and if tampered with will change colors which would indicate that they have gone over the 98 MPH. Can't answer if tons of BP would trigger the color change, my guess is no. Senior only for me so UTRIP and ASA aren't much of a factor in my decisions. Even if I was going to play non senior we don't have ASA in Vegas anywhere.
Oct. 22, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Heads up, guys
There's a lot of info
from what is not being said and argued about.
A movement toward dumber bats and balls
is underway of this there is no doubt.
Don't be surprised if/when the fun of hitting
is meaningfully compromised from the game
we currently love to play.
Get involved.
Ask questions.
Follow the money.
Keep alert.
Oct. 22, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3932 posts
lecak from i understand those reveal's when broke in and get older will change the color and will not be legal after that.that is why they are built that way from what i understand.
Oct. 27, 2008
WOW
197 posts
Why worry about ASA. Don't partake in ANY of their tournaments.
It's obvious what their up to!!!!!!!!!!
Sign-in to reply or add to a discussion or post your own message and start a new discussion. If you don't have a message board account, please register for a free nickname. It will only take a moment.
Senior Softball-USA
Phone: (916) 326-5303
Fax: (916) 326-5304
2701 K Street, Suite 101A
Sacramento, CA 95816
Send us e-mail
Senior Softball-USA is dedicated to informing and uniting the Senior Softball Players of America and the World. Senior Softball-USA sanctions tournaments and championships, registers players, writes the rulebook, publishes Senior Softball-USA News, hosts International Softball Tours and promotes Senior Softball throughout the world. More than 1.5 million men and women over 40 play Senior Softball in the United States today. »SSUSA History  »Privacy policy

Follow us on Facebook

Partners