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Discussion: Description of a Major Plus Player.

Posted Discussion
June 12, 2008
Airbosn
Men's 65
321 posts
Description of a Major Plus Player.
What does a major plus player (60 and above) look like? Sitting around a cup of Joe after a morning round of batting practice the above question was asked.

One of the fine ballplayer/manager went to his car and came back with a rating scale that he uses. It goes something like this;

Scale of 1-5, 5 being the best,

Hit with power (Consistent homer)

Hit with average (700 and above)

Plays a position

Running ability

Attitude (helps the team when on the bench)
June 12, 2008
Gary Heifner
248 posts
I think your chart sums it up. An exceptional athlete with all around skills that stands out in every tourney and game. He may not hit homers but anything through the infield is a stand up double or a shortstop that plays 5 feet on the grass and throws out left handed batters by 2-3 steps.
A player that everytime he comes up, the opponents outfielders stand on the warning track. From expereience, a batter who is in AA and everytime he comes up, the manager yells don't waste the homer now. When he does say out loud, we will take the HR now and the guys hits it into the 3rd row of the parking lot, thats a M+. Or, in AAA a batter who has been batting left handed the whole game comes up in the bottom of the 7th down 2 with 2 on and 2 outs, turns to the mananager and says what should I do? The manager says go ahead and bat right handed, and the guy hits it 50' over the center field scoreboard, thats a M+ player.
June 13, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Gentlemen:
While I agree in general with both of your descriptions of top flight, physically gifted athletes, it is important to understand the damaging and negative effect the "major plus" label has on senior softball. The fact is that at each successive age level there are fewer and fewer players who actually meet your descriptions. The problem lies in that ALL players who play on a Major Plus roster are branded with the same label as the truly elite athletes and are prevented from playing at any other level. Unfortunately, this fact reduces participation at all levels. Major teams have to be very careful about adding anyone with this "superstar" label, even if said player was the third string catcher or designated runner on a M+ team and got cut.

In my division, 50's, there currently are 40 M+ teams listed, and at best maybe15 of those teams are really active or still exist. In the West there are only two teams (until 2 days ago***) actively participating in 50 M+. How fun is it for them to go to tournaments and play only play each other time after time? IMHO the best thing senior softball could do is to do away with the M+ category, adopt a run per inning/HR rule somewhere in the middle of Major and M+ rules and combine the divisions. The result will be more teams in tournaments at the top skill level, and more than one style of team can win. In the West we've had 8-9 50 Major teams in several tournaments this year. Add in those two M+ teams and the draw is even bigger. This will also eliminate the time-wasting argument of who really is M+. The spector of being labeled M+ causes teams to hide in the weeds in fear of being bumped up, and all kinds of creative roster shifting. Drop the M+ rating and this crap goes away. Coming up through the ASA 40 & 45 divisions there were no levels, there were home run limits, and the worlds got 50-60 teams in the 40's, 20-30 teams in the 45's every year. Somehow, the game survived at this age level without M+, and those same M+ players are still playing the game. A wise founding father once said something about doing what is the Most Good for the Most Amount of People. Advice that would serve SSUSA well.

Respectfully;
Don Newhard
Manager - Evolution 50's

*** -yup, my team just got bumped to 50 M+ two days ago. That will teach us to be loyal SSUSA customers and have the nerve to actually win a few touraments.
June 13, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4355 posts
Tate22,
Well put, and a very good way to shore up the age brackets, to fill those age brackets in tournaments.
Might help eliminate two team brackets, or the like, ie; not full.
As for ASA they have always had ratings, they now use A through E. I think the E is relatively new, or been around just a few years or so.
June 13, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Don we get a 5 run cushion against you guys now although for safety reasons we probably won't be able allowed on the field agaiinst you monsters. Just kidding in all seriousness if I may add as I recall your team was forbidden to add some players which would have given you some more depth because they were technically major plus at one time. Then 45 days later or so moved to major plus without the additional depth. If these types of moves are being contemplated the additional roster flexibility needs to be taken into account before saying no to your request.
I don't know for sure but I bet the decision to move you was not a hasty one. If I may add for anyone who has not had the pleasure to compete against Evolution, they are one of the class acts I have ever had the pleasure to play against at any level I have ever played.

Don see you in Salt Lake with the 5 run or 11 man defense. I think just to keep Barny from hitting the 5-6 hole a 5 man infield to keep him from hitting 900.
June 13, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Airbosn to answer your question whatever SSUSA wants this person to look like especially if you have already been rostered.
June 13, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Hey Len,
Great topic.
Interesting and timely.
I agree with everything you said except that when it comes to defense
you said "plays a position".

For me,
defense is as important to more important
in winning very competitive games.
I'll save you all the arguments but I think a major plus ball player
should be a stud on both sides of the plate.
Other wise you'd have to limit and say, major plus hitter."
And the woods(not you, Woody) are full of 'em.
DH, 1st Base, Catcher types who can still swing with the best of them
but can't really contribute in a major plus way on "D".
June 13, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Taits:
Thanks for your comments, I always enjoy and respect your posts. I know in general ASA has levels. What I'm referring to in ASA was the Masters Divisions of 40+ and 45+, I played 10 years at those levels and there never were divisions, I think it is still that way. They used B rules, which had 3 homers, then an out, no run limit per inning. These rules did not drive off competition, teams didn't get bumped up for winning because there were no categories. I don't advocate getting rid of the levels in Senior Softball, just combining major plus with major with a compromise rule set that enables the high average/great defense teams to compete with the heavy hitters that go twelve deep with at will, '350 power. It's a win/win for most everyone, and those that still want unlimited runs/home runs should schedule special exhibitions with each other or have home run derby in Phoenix.

Don Newhard
June 13, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4355 posts
Tate22,
I thank you...
As for the younger guys you might be right, been too long since I played that...For myself i do not consider 40 & 45 year olds SENIORS.
Yes, given time they will become one, BUT, tis not their time. That is a $$ thing, and it does cost money.
But for putting on derbys, it's been tried a few times I've seen, it only worked out once because not many teams were there. Time constraints are the negative aspect. If you added one of those, there is no way teams would ever get longer game times which are needed. Umps cry when the games run over and in a way I do not blame them. Pay them a little more, but make the games longer and enjoy what would hopefully be a full 7 innings.
Teams did get bumped but now they use impact player notifications.. so which is worse, checking each and every team and the players listed or the team as a whole...
ASA in a way does both. They also tinker whit bats and balls and rules...I know, I WAS on the counsel... Decisions were made for & by non senior players making all those decisions for seniors...
ASA could be good, but from where I am and currently see a lot would have to be changed. (I play if here)
June 13, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Joe:
Thanks for your kind comments about our team. We all prefer to be recognized for good sportsmanship. We're all fortunate to have our health and athletic ability to still be doing this at our age. We've always enjoyed competing against the AZ Mob, you guys are a great team and great sportsmen. Just wondering, now that I'm in M+, does SSUSA supply replacement bodies for this scarecrow body I've been cursed with for 55 years??? Does anybody have Roger Clemens' number?

See ya in SLC JOE

Don "Larry Tate" "Powder" Newhard
June 13, 2008
the wood
1076 posts
Don:
I always enjoy your posts as they are consistently 'well put' and 'well researched'. The lone exception, in my opinion, was the 'automatic home team' for the undefeated team. You must have just had a 'bad leg day'. :-)
I believe that there is one important element of a major plus player that has been overlooked. He must have a 'major plus' attittude. Yes, some of this relates to his off field conditioning, etc., but I'm mostly speaking to his desire and comfort level for the major plus scene. It truly isn't for everyone. He must want to play there and he must believe that he belongs or it will be a very tough experience for him. There are many impressive athletes that are playing something other than major plus... for reasons best known to them. Not all of the major plus players are the best athletes. But damn few major plus guys prefer to play in one of the other divisions. By and large, they are where they want to be. I have heard it expressed on this board perviously that a major plus guy is usually a big, dumb, strong, slow power hitter that struggles to play defense. Bull puckey!
Don, you made some interesting points about the potential merger of the major and major + divisions. Were this to occur, your concept of the rule changes do make sense. But I disagree with the idea of the merger for a couple of reasons... the teams that are lower level major teams would then be in way over their head. Perhaps this could be alleviated by making them AAA but this might start even more fires.
The primary reason though is that the true major plus teams really do not want to play with those type of rules. If I wasn't certain of this previously, it was driven home to me last night. We had our task force conference call and, in really listening to the other managers, it is very clear to me that they don't want to play major rules. There were 6 of us (+ Gary Tryhorn) offering input and the vast majority of them want nothing to do with 5 or 7 run innings or maximum HR rules. They (as a group) prefer to play against fewer teams than play against major teams, even with expanding the brackets. Whether the masses would understand this or not is largely irrelevant because we prefer to remain isolated. I will also say that this is how the majority of the task force managers feel but it wasn't unanimous.
This is not about arrogance (we're better than everyone else) or ignorance (we do know about the lower profitability of our division). Just as you alluded to, there used to be rec and turnament caliber teams in the old 40 and 45 divisions. And, of course, there are a myriad of skill levels in the younger ages (pre - 40).
Now, I have offered this as it applies to national events (year end stuff). I feel that your idea would work well in the pre-season stuff. I know that a lot has been said about the 5 equalizer and all. I personally do not mind giving up the 5 runs (or 11th fielder) in the interest of encouraging the major teams to play us (not all of our players agree with me). I also believe that it helps us in the long run by making us work harder. But I wouldn't want to travel to Phoenix, Ax, and have to use those rules for the World Championships (I use AZ only as an example). While I cannot speak for Audie Hollis or Randy Hendricks or any of the other southern/eastern managers, I would seriously doubt that they would want this either. They want to beat the best and are willing to lose just as long as it is to the best... and with the proper rules.
I have used the male pronouns in this post because there are no major/major plus distinctions in the womens' divisions... not because I'm a sexist pig.
I also agree with your point about major plus 'labeling'. To say that anyone that appears on a major + roster is, by definition, a major plus player is a gross oversight.
BW
June 13, 2008
Airbosn
Men's 65
321 posts
Again, the greatest minds in senior softball have commented. Tate 22, you have my attention, I have suggested numerous times to combine the major / major plus division. At the beginning of this years I was contacted about playing with a AAA team but I had to decline because of the "Label". I am not a full time major plus player. Major yes, but, to be burden with the PLUS limits the teams that I can play with.
Einstein, I love the defensive side of the game, I enjoy the hitter coming at me a third, I enjoy running down long balls to the outfield cheating the batter out of a hit. When I pitch I Never complain about a shot up the middle. I want that out. And yes I believe a team full of long ball hitters who cannot play defensive is a losing team.
Taits, Yes, umps cry about longer games but, I do remind when I am paying them that they were paid for run rule games and rainouts. It kind of keeps the "bitchin" down.
Keep Those Comments Coming In, We Shall Be Heard.
June 13, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Bob:
As my softball mentor and former manager, it's an honor to have you respond to my comments. (Seriously!) As for a bad leg day, your kind to call them legs as their often referred to as two strings hanging out of my shorts. I understand your points about having a M+ division with no limits, and really don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is that my division doesn't have the same privilege to elect to play our own brand (MAJOR) of ball. I'd actually like to see 7 run/7 homer be adopted by SSUSA for Majors. M+ gets their own task force to pick their own rules, but a Major team is at the mercy of "the power that be" and can get kicked into that world simply because they win a couple of qualifiers with a run differential of 5 (did anyone know this is a governing standard?). There is an absolute lack of logic and fairness for this unneeded meddling. The problem in SSUSA, is there is a power (singular) that be that speaks with a forked tongue and advances a strange agenda of "protecting teams" (actual quote from the power) from "menaces to society" teams (my term) that have the nerve to perform well at their chosen level. I won't' however, use this board to cry about my own team's experience.

Taking the big picture view, if M+ wants their own rules THEN participation should be voluntary. The top flight teams you refer to are like club/travel all-star teams in youth sports. Your current team is made up of the best players from three 55 M+ teams from three states. I don't know Audie or Randy, but my guess is they have also recruited and sponsored the best team available from their respective areas. Like youth travel ball, that's ok, but don't force different types of teams into that mix. Let's agree on one thing, there are some serious issues in SSUSA besides M+ rules that need immediate fixing. The lower power needs to quit over-steering the boat or it's going to run aground.

NTTY;
Don "Larry Tate" Newhard
June 13, 2008
the wood
1076 posts
Don:
I cannot argue your point about having a task force for the other divisions. Your point is totally valid, in my opinion.
All of us, regardless of our division, should have the right to use the rules that make sense for the level at which we play. I do know that I completed an SPA survey several months ago... it was mailed to me... and I mailed it back.
If memory serves, it wasn't just sent to the major plus managers.
Beyond this, each team has the right to evaluate the assns in order to determine which one/ones is/are most appropriate for their team. GSF has done this and we support the ones that are the best listeners... not to GSF's personal needs but to our division's needs as a whole.
For the record, when we created the GSF 60 team this season, we accepted players from 3 teams as you stated. But 2 of them were 55 teams and the other was a 60 team. We didn't necessarily 'pick' the very best players as much as we limited it to the type of players that would work best in our environment. Most of the guys on the two 55 teams are not yet 60 and, therefore, ineligible to play with us in '08.
As you very well know, I'm not the easiest coach/manager to play for... and you know that I expect an awful lot from our players. This just isn't a great fit for everyone.
Getting back to your point about equal representation... go for it. If you're unhappy with the status quo, make the effort to effect change. The tail should not wag the dog.
It has been expressed many times on this board... why are there so many different assns? It is my very strong feeling that we (the teams) can allocate our 'softball dollars' toward the assns that are the best listeners. For this reason, I'm very thankful that we do have choices. It is NOT a monopoly.
Lecak once said... 'insanity is defined as doing the same things we have done and expecting different results'. I do not believe that he originated this... :-)
BW
June 13, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1006 posts
Airbosn if you want to know what major plus looks like look no further than the crew Bob Woodruff has assembled with GSF. My team typically gets to play in the same complexes and sometimes in smaller local tournaments even matched up against them. I would think it is an attitude they don't care when or where or whom. They are fun to watch and compete against. If you don't bring your best your in for a long day. I had an old football coach who didn't care whether we won or lost but god forbid the other team wasn't made to feel like they were in a war. They make you bring your best.

Makes for good sportsmanship also becasue they get it.
June 13, 2008
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
Gentlemen,
Good discussion. So much to weigh in on, where do I start? Let’s see. First of all I must correct Don “Larry Tate” “Powder” Newhard. His legs are not like 2 strings. That would be too generous. More like 2 threads. 2 shiny white fluorescent threads hanging from his shorts.

I do however agree with Tate’s idea of merging the major and major plus divisions. I don’t mind if there is a compromise on the homerun rule (7 or even 5) as long as it’s a single after the limit. Why compromise? Because personally I’m tired of the dearth of teams in the 50 major plus division. It’s the middle of June and we’ve only played 2 games against another major plus team this year. We’ve only been allowed to use “our rules” in two games so far this year.

Again just my opinion and I’m sure not everyone shares it but I would rather play against more teams. The biggest difference between major and major plus seems to be the number of homers hit. If you restricted the homers you would probably see a change in what an upper division team looked like. The new combined upper division teams(major & major plus) would be reminiscent of the 80’s when USSSA started instituting homerun restrictions (4 or 6 homerun hitters). You would see teams more balanced in terms of offense and defense, again much like the prototypical “A” and “B” teams of the 80’s and 90’s.

Mango
June 13, 2008
Smokey20
Men's 55
102 posts
Combine + and Major. 10 homeruns and singles. Middle rule as used 2008. 7 runs oer inning, open inning. 44/375 ball. One runner per inning.

As a "Major Plus" I feel I can adapt to any rule in any association. Most players I see at this level can do the same.

The highest levels of pre-senior softball don't have unlimited homeruns, do we really need this?. Run limits will let all teams have a chance to win. Limiting runners wil for teams to have "complete' players or a large roster.

PLAY BALL!!!!!!!!
June 13, 2008
chollis
79 posts
Guys I'm enjoying the discussion even though I don't agree in a lot of what is being said here, which is fine. So, chew on this (LOL).

Mango and Tate, I understand your fustration in the number of teams in the Major + division. However,I believe that merging the Major + and major division would be only a tempory fix that would dwindle after a lot of the Major + guys grow tired of playing with the numerous restrictions and just disappear. Almost all of the Major + guys I play with don't want any restrictions (with possibly the restriction of residency being the exception). Its not hard to find a place to play with restrictions..... BECAUSE THAT IS ALL THERE IS. So if your playing AAA or Major, be happy. If you team gets bumped up to Major + don't try to change the rules so your team can compete immediately. Start changing your team to play by the rules! Believe me, we had our share of bumps coming into the Major+ division but we worked hard on the team and we are really starting to make progress and then BAM! Homerun run limits, over the limits are outs, etc.

Now more than ever, softball needs the elite division, it doesn't really matter what you call it, Major + in senior ball, Major or Super in flat belly ball, etc. Guys that play this division should realize that though they are few in numbers, and have to suffer because of the limited number of teams in this division,....and always facing off against the same "Old" guys,....that this division does more to help softball grow than probably any other division with the possible except of the church league.

The elite divisions of softball (Major + in senior ball & Major with the young guys) are the games that draw the lower division players over to watch,young or old, this is the division that dads bring there sons to watch, this is the division that younger players watch and say "one day, I'm going to play on that team". This is the division (Major) when I was young that inspired me to keep playing.

I think we all can agree that there are a limited number of players that belong in this division. I hope the players in this division and the associations that carry this division realize the important of having this "pain in the butt" division up and playing.


Curt Hollis
Hollis Appraisals #51
June 13, 2008
Mango
Men's 50
90 posts
Curt:
You make some good points about the importance of the major plus division being a lighthouse division. And maybe (not totally convinced, need to think about it more) it is better for Senior Softball the way it is now with major plus being an extremely elite division. I was speaking strictly from a selfish standpoint about my desire to play in tournaments with more teams.

Smokey:
I could easily play and enjoy playing under the rules you suggested. You’re right about the runs per inning keeping the games close. For my taste the more homeruns the better. My suggestion of 7 or 5 (one up/single) was to make it more palatable to the major teams. It’s less of a stretch for them to feel they’re competitive.

The one thing I think we can all agree upon is it should never be an out after homeruns are gone! I don’t know what they were thinking when they came up with 12 homers then an out.
June 13, 2008
Tate22
Men's 55
259 posts
Curt:
Always enjoy your posts, including this one. We probably agree more than might be evident from this thread. I'm well aware of the elite talent level and have been playing with and against it since I was 40. I've been on ASA 40 World champ, a ASA 45 runner-up managed by Bob Woodroof and in 2006 my team, The Road Dogs, won the SSUSA triple crown in 50 Major. I have no problem supporting a M+ division with whatever rules you agree on. I just want that division to be voluntary, and not a threat hanging over a major team that is pretty good, but not a heavily sponsored state/multi-state super all-star team. You can't have it both ways, unlimited rules AND forcing teams into the M+ division. Play amongst yourselfs, be a showcase for senior ball, but make the Major Division the highest that you can be forced into. Everyone wins that way.

Your point about not changing the rules when a team is bumped to Major plus and just improve the team brings this point. Why should a team have to dump guys (often friends) mid-season who were recruited legally within published and unpublished SSUSA alleged rules and guidelines? Teams build for what they want to do, and on the whim of the "power" that be, they are thrown into a level that they didn't build for. The same thing happens in youth travel ball, eventually you can recruit your own son out of a job in a quest to be the best. For some teams, it's all about getting to the absolute highest concentration of talent and competition, friends be dammed. That's ok for some, and good luck. For others, focusing on a level with a little less talent, loyalty to dedicated players, and good team chemistry is equally ok. I SAY ALLOW FOR BOTH, AND WE ALL WIN.

Thanks for your contributions to this Senior Softball dialogue, we are all in this together. See you on the fields.

Regards;
Don Newhard
Manager - Evolution 50's
June 13, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Mango, my good man.
I miss you and Mickey and the Bull.
Glad to hear someone else is weighing in about leaving the home run/single rule
alone. I believe we all have to be aware of what's happening in and around us
so we don't get blind-sided when some SSUSA decisions about us
and Major plus get made.
June 14, 2008
chollis
79 posts
Mango, thanks for the reply. I understand were your coming from and I think we all have those same thoughts. I wouldn't call that a selfish standpoint.

Don, thanks for the kind words! I enjoyed reading your response. I've been a part of 7 national championships with the young guys and 2 or 3 since starting last year in 50 ball which doesn't make me an expert on anything. So take this with a grain of salt....I'm OK with the Major Plus being voluntary. The only problem I see is what do you do with a team that wins every Major tournament there in?....and they don't want to move up. What would the other Major teams have to say about that? Might they demand that this team moves up? What would prevent a Major + team from sand bagging? Just asking the question as I don't want to stick my big nose in the Major division business.

Now, to address your other issue......and I'm assuming lets say, you were force to move up to Major +. You said, "Why should a team have to dump guys (often friends) mid-season who were recruited legally within published and unpublished SSUSA alleged rules and guidelines?"

I don't know of a requirement were you have to dump someone mid season. I think you might have to take a look at your team and ask yourself what your goals are for the remainder of the season. I would suggest you see how the guys you have handle it. There might be some pleasant surprises. The next season you'll have to make some choices regarding your goals, do I want to play with my friends or do I want to win at this level? or do I want a mixture of both? I understand your comment about recruiting your son off a team. What we try to do is make sure I'm the worst player on the team, then I know we are as good as we are going to get (lol). I think most the guys that play at this level pretty much understand how it works. That doesn't mean you can't be dedicated to your players. Be upfront with the guys you bring on. Tell the guys your not sure about that you would like to give them a couple of tournaments to make the team and then talk to them after two tournaments. But most of all, have fun!

Keep the great thoughts rolling guys!!!

curt
June 18, 2008
Jawood
Men's 50
793 posts
There are not enough teams to have Major AND Major plus divisions, just combine them. I am sorry to hear that Evolution 50 has been made Major plus, we enjoy playing you guys. Maybe you can "throw" your next tournament and get moved down again. We probably wouldn't play if we got moved up, not because of the competition, it would be because who wants to travel to these tournaments and play 2 out of 3? Drop the Major-plus!
June 22, 2008
Cognac Lite
Men's 50
32 posts
I have read only a few of the post regarding placing limitations on the Major Plus division. Some have stated that disrupting a team/friendship is the result of a team moving up. It has probably been stated in one of the earlier responses, but teams have always been bumped up when they won a national tournament the previous year in the organization. If I recall correctly, Lilly Air won the 1984 ASA Major and had to play in the ASA Super the next year. I don't remember their results, but some of there games weren't pretty. Perhaps, those teams that have been bumped could bite the bullet for one year, and if they find themselves to not be competitive, they could asked for a review.

Yes, playing in tournaments with few teams does get to be repetitive. HOWEVER, the tournaments usually features the best of the best. Isn't that what competition is all about? I don't think that the ORGANIZATION would bump up a team if that team had not proven that they could be competitive at the next level. We see colleges all of the time go from NCAA Division I to Division II. Yes, that is their choice, but they still have prices to pay. To much is given, much is required. If a team gets bumped changes must be made. They don't have to happen immediately. Who knows, REAL COMPETITORS level of play will increase if they are playing against higher caliber players.

Back to the friendship disruption, new friendships may develop. Yes, I know that we are old as dirt, but you can never have enough friends. I am very fortunate; I like everyone one of my teammates. WE ALL GET ALONG. I have also played on teams where guys went their separate ways, but we had one common goal.....A CHAMPIONSHIP. This may sound callous, but if you are in it to socialize and have fun, don't play competitive softball. I do barnstorm on Sunday evenings with some buddies when I am not playing for a CHAMPIONSHIP; that's when I get to socialize.

Major Plus softball is designed for competitiveness. There is some socialization that takes place. Being that we are in our 50's plus, hopefully, you will remember this commercial. MAKE FRIENDS WITH KOOL AID, MAKE KOOL AID MAKE FRIENDS. I can't understand how a player or team that moves up can suggest rule changes, especially those requiring limitations.

Let's play slowpitch. If you don't want to score runs and hit homeruns, there's a game called fast pitch.

By the way, I am 6'5", 208 pound guy who can run and hit (most of the time). I am not a brut who can only hit the long ball. As a matter of fact, I was cut from a team because SOME didn't think that I had enough power. However, some of those same guys realized that I could produce. Again, let's play the game without limitations.
June 23, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Cognac, my good man.
How you doin?
I always enjoy your posts.
Will you be going to SPA in Tulsa, in July?
June 23, 2008
Cognac Lite
Men's 50
32 posts
Genius Einstein,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. There were some things that could have been written differently. I will blame that on the cognac hahahaha. Hollis' plan is to play in Tulsa next month. I am looking forward to the tournament and seeing my new friends.

Have you seen the Stoneman?
June 23, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I see that Old Pirate all the time.
He's doin' well.
I'll tell him you said hi.
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