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Discussion: A team's rating!

Posted Discussion
July 18, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
A team's rating!
I was going to bash SSUSA staff up north, but I will just state the facts and let you comtemplate on the matter. Most of you know Double Nickels(formerly Base Hawgs). We have had the same players for the past 7-8 years, plus or minus 1-2 each year. We have never won a National tournament. We came close once, but lost to a sandbagging team that the staff of SSUSA knew did not belong in our level. Now this team is playing Major/Major+ where they belong, but stole our only chance to win a ring tournament. Boohoo! Sorry, just had to say that. LOL!

Shockingly, we have been bumped to Majors. We won 3 out of our last 4 tournaments, by playing the same 2 teams 10 times(where we were 9-1) and 4 other games, and that 3 of these tournaments only had 3 or less other teams in our bracket. One tournament only had us and one other AAA team. This excludes the 50AA, 55AA, and 60AA teams that we had to play. Those 2 good teams mentioned above, we have traditionally beat in the past 7-8 years, except that the Mustangs kicked our butts last year, as they were on a role last season. Good job guys! There are teams that traditionally beat us the past 7-8 years, but we enjoy playing against them and the competition. We were bumped up because we had a 6.6 run differential after 3 tournaments. We only played 11 AAA teams, and again, 7 of those games against the same 2 teams. Actually, I thought 6.6 was pretty low, considering we did not lose a game our first 11 outings. I guess we needed to dump a game by 30 runs to keep our run differential low, but we did not. Our biggest margin of victory was 11(twice). You take into consideration our last tournament and eliminate the two 11 run victories, our run differential after 4 tournaments is approximately a whopping 3.9. Sounds like a Major team to me.

In addition to the above information, I want to thank the tournament director's that called/emailed on our behalf to state to SSUSA that we were definitely not a Major team, just a very good AAA team. These guys watched our games and know what kind of team that we have and had. SSUSA's own people and they completely disregard this up north. I want to say that it has been a pleasure and a lot of fun playing against all of you AAA teams and making friends over the years, but our team will no longer be playing SSUSA tournaments, unless we get 5 Major players to join us or we get reinstated to AAA. That would mean that we have to get rid of some players, and I will not do that.

Lastly, I want to say to you Ray that you were correct, but I had to find this out for myself. Now that I know the appeal system is a farce, we will be playing in the same tournaments that you guys told us about and over 30 SSUSA teams are turning to the past 3-4 months. Thanks for the information and we will be seeing soon. By the way Ray, you were also correct about one more item, to be considered for a lower division, we must first play 3 tournaments at the upper level and get our heads bashed in and possibly injure some of our older players and discourage new ones and current players. Besides that, we have to give SSUSA our money to get his done. Sounds like something my team might want to do.

For those of you that are happy with the current system, you have a great rest of the year. I think a player's committee might be in order here from all ages and levels of play, and forget this Hennessey sight unseen decision making based on not watching a team play, nor trusting his staff that run his tournaments. Fran and Dave, it has always been a pleasure dealing with you both. If you ever have your own organization, we will be first in line with many others. Thank you!

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager
July 19, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3939 posts
i see we are having a real problem with the rating system.i thought allnew teams are supposed to start at AAA or if you win any major tourney u get bumped up.i do know hennesy's team won the western's last yr.did his team get bumped up??also know another team(from sacramento) that has done real good and not playing AAA.i think playing only 3 or 4 diff teams does not make it manditory for u to move up from aaa to major.
July 19, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
200 posts
I played on the Base Hawgs a few years back, know some of the players. My team Git-R-done, played the currnet Base Hawgs in Oxnard this past spring. they whoop us but we are a, AA team. In my opinion they are a solid AAA team. It seems to me the real test of their rating would be to allow them to finish this year at AAA, letting them compete on a national level. I belive the rating will then straighten itself out. All threats aside, SSUSA, might want to give the Base Hawgs another look. Rating teams is a tough business, not at all easy to do. I hope this imput is helpful.
Regards, TommyD
July 19, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
200 posts
My bad, I meant the new Double Nickles formed from the old Base Hawgs.
TommyD
July 19, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
This whole fiasco just leaves me feeling confused, disgusted, and powerless. I’m the guy that put the appeal package together for Hennessy. I showed them that we played the same 2 AAA teams 7 out of 11 games, and that we scored 14 runs in our open inning in one game that was close the whole way until then. The only thing they considered in all the info that I made available to them was the 6.6 run differential. That’s it. We asked the tournament directors from the three tournaments we played in to contact Hennessy and give him their own opinion of our abilities and where they thought we should be rated. I know this was done, because I actually sat in one guy’s office while he called SSUSA. The same guy forwarded me an email that he sent to SSUSA saying all this. I forwarded to Chris at SSUSA, who was putting it all together for Hennessy. All of this was to no avail. I’m convinced that they didn’t even look at our records for the last 7 to 8 years when we were AA or AAA. Maybe they were tired from their trip to Japan.

This concept of run differential is a joke anyway. All a team has to do is lose one of their seating games by a lot. There are teams doing this all the time to play the system. If SSUSA wants to look at statistics, why not look at those instead of just run differential. There are teams that have won multiple ring tournaments and continue to play AAA. We never won any big tournaments, and now we never will have the chance to. We tried to play it straight and were screwed for our efforts, while they continue to ignore the real statistics and play with people’s lives.
July 19, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Hey Mad Dog and Tommy!

Thanks for the comments. If there were enough players and teams that would bond together in situations like this, SSUSA would have to fix their mistakes. I just spoke to another team today, and he said their team refuses to play any more SSUSA tournaments. You are right about all that you wrote. The funny thing is that we are not a new team. We just changed our name. We are just the Base Hawgs with a different name. We will never know, but I am highly convinced that if we did not change our name, SSUSA would not have given us a look. As the Base Hawgs, we generally won 3-4 dinky nothing tournaments a year, and no one blinked an eye over us. That is all that we have done this year.

At the beginning of the year, I was asked if we wanted to start at the AA level, and I said no, because I felt that we would wipe out any AA team. I think it was because they needed another AA team in their bracket that weekend. It does not matter now. I know there are teams that do not get bumped up, because we have done our research. Teams have won National tournaments and the TOC, and never get bumped.

I know we have a very good AAA team and we have a decent chance to win a major tournament this year or at least be competitive and finsh up there. Honestly, win, lose, or draw, if we stayed together next season and picked up 3-4 good major players that could pop the ball out of the park and play good defense, we would be competitve. I ask you as a player, which friend do you take off the team?? This is probably the reason why we have never won a Major tournament, and we do not care. We just want to compete where we are with our friends. We just all like playing together and as Tommy put it, just wanted to finish out the season at the AAA level to see what we could do and let the pieces fall where they may. Sorry we stomped on you Tommy. LOL! Maybe I can coach 3B for you in Vegas.

Good luck to you guys the rest of the year!

Andy Smith,
Doubles Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 19, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Duke,
What happened to Mike Adams, he used to manage.
It would be very easy for SSUSA to compare rosters to right any possible wrong. I believe a team is allowed to stay at same level any way if they have 6 or maybe it is 7 players that were\are the same...Maybe "changing the name", constitutes a "new" team or a way around dealing with it.
Your correct about teams winning and never moved up. I know of one team that won 3 ring tourneys in a year and they are still AA...there are others as well. Go figure, but maybe they need that edge, here there, everywhere.
July 19, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Taits,

To answer your question about how many guys we had back from last year's Basehawgs, it was 9. We added 5 guys from our 50 team that turned 55, and one other guy. Except for the new guy, we all played on the 50 Basehawgs at one time or another that was rated AA and AAA. These things are easy for SSUSA to check. The rosters are on file. These are the things that they should review, not just look at a run differential that was skewed by a couple of high scoring open innings.
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Taits,

We had to discontinue our relationship with Mike Adams due to philosophical differences. That is all that I care to say about that matter, as it was an internal situation that the team agreed upon.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Ken, Duke,
By what is written here I think you have a case, but you know them...That is why i have said things that concern the the teams, there fore the players , need to have a way to view how these decisions ( team rankings, equalizer rules) are made just like the rule book, a source to check if a decision was correct or a means by which to appeal a costly decision that was made. Make them a part of the rule book which could use some editing anyway. A check and balances as it were.
As for run differentials, In my opinion those should have no bearing when it comes to seeding games, but count for the elimination games. The number mentioned I think was an 6.6 average, seem fair to me, but over how many games or tournaments will it take effect is only part of this big question. The other part is if you loose by this amount you you get knocked as well. This only make it fair. Win or loose by the magic number which need to be the same, you can move up or down.
your right on the sand gag thing also. I have played many games where we actually were told to throw a game to get moved into another bracket and play...you end up playing harder longer but it works if it goes right.
I played againgt you guys roughly 4-5 years ago more than once and always had good games. Your a tough team.
So where did Mike end up playing with?
Maybe I'll see you in Anaheim the 2nd.
July 20, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Taits, and all fellow SSUSA members,

I think a players board or some other type of "checks and balance" commission has to be installed to deal with obvious mistakes on ratings and rulings. I see, from the latest issue of SSUSA's newsletter, that a "Review Board" had to reverse a Hennessy decision on a "regional exception" for some guy from central California. Why not keep this review board in place as a permanent solution to the mistakes made on ratings. But I think the board should consist of their permanent members, and a group of floating members from different regions that could deal with the regional issues. This way, if you think you were rated incorrectly, you could appeal to someone who has actually seen you play, your peers, and not just some bureaucrat looking at statistics. These people who have seen you play could poll the teams that were in the tournaments, along with the TDs, to get a true representative opinion on a team's rating. The way it's being done now just doesn't cut it. The people on my team haven't seen Terry Hennessy in over 5 years, and yet he is the guy supposedly rating our team? That is just ridiculous. There have been a lot of complaints recently on this board about how the rating system is being handled. Actual eyes-on people MUST do the ratings. SSUSA, please, earn those tournament fees! Give everyone a fair shot.
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Taits,

Mike is playing on a team called "We Make This Look Hard"
and combined with some other AA team. Unfortunately, at this time, SSUSA has incorrectly rated them as a AAA. SSUSA just has no clue this year on their teams. Most directors at their tournaments let them play AA. They should be playing in the Outlaw tournament on August 2nd in the 55AA division. The Outlaws are aware of our situation with SSUSA, and said that they know and everyone else knows that we are a AAA team, and put us in their 55AAA bracket.

Here is an ironic thing to ponder. In our last tournament, I was told by the tournament director that our team had to play in the 55 Major division, because the SSUSA staff would not permit us to play below Majors. He had to have approval from SSUSA staff of his bracketing. There were also 55 Major+ teams. I said we would want our money back. The director asked me if it would be OK with me if we played in the 60 Major division. I said that if that was our only choice, then yes. This all transpired about 8 days prior to the tournament weekend. Now listen to this, all of a sudden a few more teams entered the tournament, and he needed to restructure the brackets. Since more money was being considered here, WE WERE NOW PERMITTED TO PLAY IN THE 55AAA BRACKET with 2 other 55AAA teams and a 50AA team. Therefore, there are no rules that they considtently follow. And no, we did not have to spot any teams any runs or extra fielders.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Sorry about my spelling in my last post. It should have read, "that there are rules that they consistently follow, except as it fits into their plans and pockets." Well worth mentioning again.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
I did it again! I meant to say "that there are NO rules that they consistently follow when it comes to their own agenda and pockets" Well worth saying again! LOL!

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Teams/Players,

I know that we are not the only team this year in this situation or something similar. I wanted you to know something about our appeal regarding our rating. When we were putting it all together, we had asked SSUSA to contact the tournament directors to ask them their opinion of our team. They flat out refused and said that we had to get each director to call/email up to Sacramento. Aren't these people working for you, I asked? That is why Ken had to track down the director in Oxnard himself. Thank you Ken for your time and effort to get this done right. I had to call the director in Santa Barbara that was laughing at us having to play Majors with the team that he had watched. It would seem to me that if I was going to change a team's rating and have an impact on their lives, that I would make every effort to try and get all the facts and circumstances to be as correct in my decision as possible. If I was still not convinced, as a person in charge, I would get myself out to watch a game or 2 and see for myself. This is just common sense. Just wanted everyone that was considering an appeal, what you are up against, and their is little concern/effort up north to get this correct in many cases.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
I'm still a new-B in this SS.. All that I'v read about TH and
SSUSA-- things will not change until we get into TH's
pocket book... As long as we keep going to his tournaments
we must play by his rules.
Wes
July 20, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I like the idea of a revolving review committee, but with perhaps the added staggering of time elected or appointed to it so no one person could influence or control it for any length of time. I think teams managers and perhaps one umpire would be a good place to look. If the team participated in at least a few for their region within the last year and for MOST umpires, they see a lot that goes on, but NOT all of them.
A written format on how ratings are done and equalizing is to be accomplished still need to be drafted or the spoken translation will become sketchy at best between them all.

Do not have a manager on the committee who's team hasn't played a tournament in a long period of time, nor has been recently "rated". There are many teams that haven't been rated since 2004. (i believe the furtherest back they go, posted)
Many teams have never gone to qualifiers or any other above that level.

The Major Plus teams got something going, Lets hope the rest can as well. No matter what the assn's need the teams, and the teams need the assn's.
If you don't communicate, the problems will only escalate.

With all these controversies, I now remember one reason I gave up managing.
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Wes and Taits,

You are definitely on the correct path to the solution here for ALL teams at ALL levels of play.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
SSUSA isn't the only assn. that has this problem. From what I read in the posts all over this site, I doubt there is any assn. out there that has a written format for either problem, equalizer or ratings.
July 20, 2008
Michael
Men's 55
18 posts
First of all let me say that I am a member of the Double Nickel (Formerly Base Hawg) team. This was going to be a fun year for us as a team. We have been waiting for 3 years for everyone to become 55 eligible. Our guys have not won any major or regional "ring" tournament at the 50 level or 55. Just a good bunch of guys who enjoy playing together. Enough about that. There seems to be some sort of rule out there that determines whether a team moves up or not. If someone can clarify that rule for me I would appreciate it. Run differential is the reason stated for moving us up. In the recent Rock N' Reno tournament (A TOC qualifer) a 55 AAA team was moved up after winning their division and having a plus 70 run differential in the tournament in 7 games. Fair enough. Another team in the 55 AA division won their division and had a run differential of 75 in 6 games and was not moved up. Our run differential as stated above was 6.6 in non national or regional events. So, maybe it's whether or not you've won a big tournament (A TOC or "ring") well a team that won last years Western regional and the 2008 TOC at the 55 AAA level is still 55AAA. A team that won the 2008 Spring Worlds in Palm Springs is still 55AAA and a team that won the 2007 Las Vegas Winter Worlds is still 55 AAA. This is not an attack on any team but rather just an attempt to find out what the reasoning is behind moving us up when the tournament directors of the tournaments we have played in have said that while we are a good to very good AAA team that we are in no way a Major team. One director after seeing us play said that we have an outstanding base hitting team for AAA but basically a AA defense. You who frequent this website have opinions on this subject and maybe this is the time to express them. Maybe we can change this system that seems to have no rhyme or reason to something that has a no guess work kind of way to rate teams. This subject is a very frequent visitor to this site and maybe if we make enough noise this time we can form a change in how they view our opinions. It is quite clear that as of now, and not just for my team, that they do what they want in a very random manner.

Mike Phillips
July 20, 2008
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
I really don't like to be repetitive, but I put a message up on another thread not too long ago, and it seems to apply here. The name is changed to be relevant, I hope.

"[Duke]- I'm confused here. Did you[r manager] make an appeal of your rating that got denied, or are you just complaining and hoping that if someone at ssusa sees this you might get a random ratings change? [Another poster] just told us about how they went thru the process, and it seems to me that until your team does, it's not likely a ratings change for you is in the cards."

Change isn't likely to occur until or unless you follow the assoc. process. Otherwise you just sound like another of the teams that isn't interested in facing the challenge of a ratings move. There are no guarantees. Maybe you should try to earn your success at a higher level where it would be more satisfying.
July 20, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
DesertGuy,

Hmmm! How do I answer this without being repetitve? LOL! I guess that I cannot. I think it is more than clear to everyone else what is happening here and what transpired here by all of the previous posts. Please try to read the previous posts again. I really cannot say anything else without sounding sarcastic and/or joking around with you. I am a jokingly sacrastic guy with my teammates, but I will try not to do it here. You have a good year.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 20, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Dessert Guy,

Please read the previous posts on this thread. We go into detail about the appeal that was denied. We tried it their way. Now we are appealing to our softball peers to help us right this wrong and all the other unfair ratings that are causing teams to leave the organization.
July 21, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
One last thing, you should notice is the first few lines on the ratings page here, this is how it reads:
------
Combined Senior Softball Ratings
NOTICE: No more Ratings Appeals will be accepted or decided until after the last major National Championships at the end of October.

This website is the main communication vehicle of the National Senior Softball Summit. It is supported by all nine national senior softball organizations: ASA, ISA, LVSSA, SSUSA, SPA, ISSA/ISF and the Huntsman Games.
-------
So if your are some where outside the date or too soon, which is not mentioned, I figure you'll have to wait for a decision on your case.
July 21, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Taits,

We got our appeal and all of the necessary data in before their deadline, which included tracking down their tournament directors. The deadline per the gentlemen up north was July 10th, and they had their last meeting July 11th.

Have a great week!

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 21, 2008
mad dog
Men's 60
3939 posts
how about 55 AAA finalists(from the worlds in phx) not being moved up.thought both teams should be moved up.guess its who ya know.
July 21, 2008
RochBob
53 posts
For those of you that are happy with the current system, you have a great rest of the year. I think a player's committee might be in order here from all ages and levels of play, and forget this Hennessey sight unseen decision making based on not watching a team play, nor trusting his staff that run his tournaments. Fran and Dave, it has always been a pleasure dealing with you both. If you ever have your own organization, we will be first in line with many others. Thank you!


I totally agree. We pay the bills but we get dictated to we have no say

We are a new 70's team and got rated Majors, we have not had a chance to gain that title.

We were beaten by coffee cup a team Terry hennessy knows well by 32 to 7 in 2 games

When coffee cup went from 65 majors they were rated AAA and yes manged to beat up on everybody,

This team should be rated majors plus.

A new organized 70's team getting rated Majors. Is somebody not thinking. It is difficult to find enough players to play at 70 without some person that has never seen us play rating us majors


WE DEFINITELY NEED A PLAYERS GROUP greengiantadams@aol.com
July 21, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Mad dog,

Not only were they in the final last year, they were in the final the year before. And they’re still AAA as of today. When I spoke with a representative from SSUSA, he said that the only criteria for certain advancement in ratings is winning the Worlds. Nothing about run differential. If you look at the run differential in some of the “ring tournaments”, you will be astounded. The team that won last years TOC also had a run diff. of “9” at last year’s Nationals. This team also won this years Western Nationals, took 3rd in the Worlds last year, took second in the Cal. St. tournament, and took second at Rock N Reno. Yet they continue on at AAA. We’ve never won any substantial tournament, in all our 7-8 years with SSUSA, and we move up. Go figure.

I’m not comfortable discussing other team’s records, but we sit here grasping at straws, trying to figure out their rationale for rating us major and leaving other more accomplished teams to enjoy their status. I hope they right their wrong and let us compete against these teams in the division in which we belong.
July 21, 2008
RochBob
53 posts
fmazzeo127@aol.com,
service@go2fairway.com,
mboone@sweetconstruction.com,
afengelk@mynewroads.com,
ruskraft@comcast.net,
acrings@hotmail.com,
babe7@thegrid.net,
rsan987272@aol.com,
ToFa622@aol.com,
normanstumpf@hotmail.com,
benevee@hawaii.rr.com,
awtgroupsc@aol.com,
chetyoung@cox.net,
dbowyer55@verizon.net,
lalab@attglobal.net,
grannysoftball@aol.com,
kcnlathrup@aol.com,
softball2eag@aol.com,
lawlis@aol.com,
dustysue4@yahoo.com,
sylviarm@earthlink.net,
apple.moses@netzero.net,
Vicki.oltean@palmsprings-ca.gov,
usssajl@msn.com,
tennswdusssa@webtv.net,
cyndi1@cox.net,

All of thes players are on the national summit board.

They probably don't do anything but send them an eamil about your concerns
July 21, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
RochBob,

Thank you for the email addresses. I have emailed them all and already have 2 responses. I am hoping that someone or a group of people can make this right.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 21, 2008
gymdoc
Men's 55
5 posts
Who won the 55AAA in Utah :-)
July 21, 2008
Wes
Men's 65
311 posts
Duke+all others
I do not think there are any rules for rating teams..
If you have not read TH article in the last SS news
you need to do that so you can better understand
what he is trying to do... I do not know if he is right or
wrong but the way I read it "TH" is the rule maker and
he make the rules work so that the out come is what he wants.
He see it as his job to save SS, from what I do not know.
Read the article if you have not
Wes
July 21, 2008
db14
91 posts
SLC results for 55AAA (1) No Dice (2) Over The Edge (3) Wilson Trophy 55's
July 21, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
db14,

Thanks for the update. Congratulations to No Dice at winning the 55AAA Western Nationals. Who won this Western National ring tournament last year in the 55AAA division, No Dice? Who won the Tournnament Of Champions in Florida for 2008 in the 55AAA bracket, No Dice? I am honestly not trying to knock you guys, because I cannot remember who you are anyway. ??Actually, just because you win 3-4 ring tournaments, does not mean you have to move up. I am just trying to make a point here. I can elaborate more on this regarding other teams, but all I want is our team put where we belong, so we can compete at our level of play, and have a chance to win a ring. What about it Mr. Hennessey?
July 21, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Wes,

Comments noted.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 21, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Teams/Players,

When I said that I want our team put where we belong, that is the 55AAA level of play. This by no means excluded the many other teams that should be corrected. You guys need to let us all know who you are, so we can back you, if you are correct. I would like to see all teams play where they belong.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 22, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Wes, I did read his editorial in the last issue of his newsletter, and I think it's good that he wants to protect the integrity of the rating system. But the "his way or the highway" attitude is going to spoil this organization. Final say on the ratings cannot be with someone who has not seen the teams in question play. He has to rely on someone who has actually witnessed the games, his TDs and other managers, and use their assessments. Run differential is a small part of gauging a team’s ability. Too many factors contribute to how many runs a team scores in a game. Were the fences short, no fences, teams playing without key players, etc. He is currently not using all the tools at his disposal. That will only result in skewed ratings and teams not attending the tournaments.
July 22, 2008
RochBob
53 posts
I have created a group email list

that contains all of these players email on the advisory board
.
Probably it is the first time " all" of them have gotten and email from a player.

I have recently sent them one. There was not much satisfaction in sending the email. I could have sent it to you.

My guess is they do not have any clout that is needed.
There is nothing that tells what they do.

This is the type of group that should take complaints

Time stamp them communicate with you .

Then get a consensus approach on problems.

I am confident that this is probably not happening.

It is easier to take your money and not do anything.

greengiantadams@aol.com
July 22, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
RochBob,
I believe that select group was for the Major plus teams only. However, they are usually the ones who know what is going on and should there fore have some say in these matters in front of them for which advise was sought, and to utilize their knowledge base. Unfortunately, those with the power to act, only reference (may think about it), the info and weigh it against any potential cost factor to implement (which is advisable), but risky if that bottom dollar, is their only concern.
July 22, 2008
RochBob
53 posts
2007 Senior Softball Summit Advisory Board
that is the group email and the ones poste on this
conversation
July 22, 2008
RochBob
53 posts
Duke & Ken you have the right thoughts.

A player rep for every age bracket. One that knows and is willing to talk with teams he does not know .
One that will consioder and listen to the facts.
Then put it to a committe to decide from the players aspect


It is humiliating to be rated Majors as a 70's team and get
beaten by AAA teams and then the majors team beats you in 2 games
32 to 7

not much fun for a new team or players.

These are facts not conclusions
July 22, 2008
the wood
1086 posts
You can email the Summit Advisory Board folks all you want but I doubt that it will make any difference in a given team's rating... nor is it likely to change the way things are done in the general sense. We are merely figureheads.
If you REALLY want to create change, you need to address the folks in charge (directly).
BW
July 22, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Bob, I have left a message last week (with phone numbers) for TH to please call me at his earliest convenience. I also emailed him with my number and those of my co-managers. No response so far. I really don't know what else to do.
July 22, 2008
the wood
1086 posts
Ken, I imagine that you do have a very good argument. It isn't my intent to discourage you from appealing their decision on your team's rating. I just want to convey that the SAB has no authority whatsoever.
I would suggest that you...
1) file the written appeal (complete with all of the things that they request).
2) assuming that you have already done this... ask other managers in both divisions (AAA & major) to write a short note if they feel that you have a legitimate case... and send this Terry.
3) Give this a few days and continue to call him.
But, before you go to all of this trouble, make absolutely certain that you have all of your facts in order... and that you honestly believe that you belong in AAA.
As I have stated in the past, I do not like the fact that the rating committee is devoid of players and/or managers. To me, we truly need a check and balance system.
In 2001, our 50 team had a similar problem... we were rated major plus but we were definitely a major team... they refused to drop us to major and, consequently, we didn't go to the SSUSA event in LV. We did go to a couple of other national events that year... ISA - 50 major division, we took 2nd out of 4 teams... we lost to the Akron Silversmiths (a lot of the Travelodge guys).... and we went to USSSA in Lakewood, CO. Murl Skalla, who was helping Jerry Jackson, allowed us to play in the 50 AAA division (USSSA only had AAA & major). We took 2nd in the consolation bracket, going 5-4... we lost to Watkins Communications (2 times), Green Machine and Player's Club... even after this less than sterling performance we were told that we 'obviously belonged in the major plus division'. I have always felt that had there been actual players and/or managers on the committee things like this wouldn't happen... at least not as frequently.
Murl took me at my word as did Chet Tyl of ISA. I will never forget this of either of them. Sorry for the short story but this is the Reader's Digest version.
I wish you well in your quest...
:-)
BW
July 24, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
For eveyone's information, I heard through the grapevine, that Terry went back east to attend a family funeral. Sorry to hear about that news Terry. That is why he has not responded. Therefore, this issue will be shelved till next week, where Terry said he would personally review our rating. I heard this through the grapevine as well.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 24, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
I have to ask. He said he would "personally review" our case? I would have thought he would personally review ALL cases, since he is the one that makes the decisions on team ratings.
July 24, 2008
DesertGuy
Men's 60
224 posts
Ken- Pretty cold comment in a time like this for TH and his family. Maybe just couldn't resist beating that dead horse just one more time. Ratings are subjective to a point and I sure wouldn't be making a comment like that when I wanted someone to think positive thoughts for me.
July 24, 2008
db14
91 posts
It never ceases to amaze me how selfish and classless many of you guys are. Yes, Terry is back in the mid west attending the funeral of his mother!!!! She passed Monday the very day after he was at the SLC Nationals. You may wish to reflect on your whining about ratings and how many of you feel mistreated and dumped upon. This is Senior softball (not the bigs). We should all be thankful we are still alive and able to play this game we enjoy.
July 24, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
My condolences to the Terry Hennessy family for their loss. There are obviously things much more important than senior softball for him at this time.

Db14, out of respect for his mother, we’ll table this discussion until a more appropriate time.
July 29, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
Just a few updates at this time. I talked with several managers this week regarding playing SSUSA tournaments for the rest of the year, and they all have stopped playing, except for the ones that they already sent in their money. Many are finding other organizations to play. Of course, there are problems everywhere you choose to go, but are they minor ones, ones that can be discussed, and does the staff try to resolve issues in a fair manner? You just do not know till you try and experience how others run things. I will say from talking to other organizations, that they are all aware of the problems with SSUSA and cannot believe what they are hearing, since it has been expressed by the many teams switching to their tournaments. The 3 main issues being expressed are: teams being incorrectly rated, teams winning National/Ring tournaments and not moving up, and not enough teams to play for the cost and time involved. Some of these tournaments have actauly been cancelled due to a lack of teams. Imagine that concept! LOL! I have found one thing that is very incouraging, these directors will talk with you and give you their time and opinions and how they try to do things. It is a little different, but teams seem to be OK with them. Guess our team will find out.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
July 30, 2008
WOW
197 posts
As near as I can tell. THERE IS NO REAL POLICY ON WHEN A TEAM IS MOVED UP OR DOWN. It appears to be either an extremely arbitrary one or a very political one. Case in point: Las Vegas 60's and No Dice [congratulations to both teams], played AND WON many "BIG" tourn. all the while staying at the same level for a very long time while MANY other teams win ONE tourn. and get bumped up.

Terry, your group had better figure out what is wrong or ??????????????????????????
Aug. 3, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
720 posts
WOW,

I do not even know, if we are being reconsidered or not anymore. I was told that we were, but we cannot find anything out, because no one up north will talk with us. We are going to try to call again this week. We were originally told that we would get a letter about our denial 17 days ago. That has not arrived, so maybe they withheld it for a further look at our team. When we were originally moved to Majors, we did not receive a letter till about 3 weeks after the fact. We only discovered our change earlier, because one of our players checked saw it on the website.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
AKA: Base Hawgs,
Manager
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