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Discussion: Flip-Flop Rule

Posted Discussion
July 22, 2008
Captain D
11 posts
Flip-Flop Rule
Flip-Flop Rule: This is an appropriate name for this rule. Does anybody else have a problem with this? Teams try to get home team advantage (ideally to have last at bat) on a coin flip but could end up being the visitors in the 7th inning. Now this should only occur with the following stipulations per the rules:
• Applied at the discretion of Tournament Director and with approval of the managers of both teams – I have never been asked for approval for this action!
• Visiting team is ahead by 10 or more runs after 6th inning – I’ve seen this applied with as little as 5 runs lead!
If the home team pulls ahead in the FF inning, the visiting team now gets last bats. I can appreciate the thought behind this rule as to save time for games but SSUSA should really survey/talk to their customers when considering initiating these types of rules, it might open up the binders.

Captain D
July 22, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
Below is one assn's rule for this but i have not seen managers "asked' but more like being "told'" they were using it.------
Flip flop rule will be used at the top of the last inning when the visitors are ahead by 15 or more runs. It is optional if visitors are ahead by 10-14 runs and agreed to by both managers. The visitors become the home team. -----number of Runs used most often I've seen is 8. The rule Sucks in my opinion.
July 22, 2008
FOG33
8 posts
Well, this is a new trist to that rule. At the Midwest Nationals in Champaign this month we were in a game with the flip rule and we are the vistors. In the 6th inning the umpires said time was out so we are using the flip flop rule. Now remember we are the vistors, so we batted (6th inning) and then batted again (7th inning). The umpires said if we come back and take the lead (which we didn't) then the home team whcih became the vistors still only gets one at bat. So, we get to bat the 6th and 7th innings and if we came back then the other team only got to bat once, the 6ht inning for them. So, using this rule needs to have a clear understanding by all so there is no mistake during the game.
July 22, 2008
softballer
Men's 55
560 posts
well I've always ask if they want to flip flop! 75 % of the time they will! some don't like it because of the run difference in bracket games!
July 22, 2008
green rocket
51 posts
I've seen it both ways. Usually in the smaller tournaments its more of a 'gentleman's game' as to not run up the score too bad.

I have seen rules written both ways also as optional, if both managers agree, and mandatory if its over 15 runs. I have never seen it used for fewer runs than 15.

The flip-flop should only be used once during the open inning period.

I understand the rule, but I also understand that some managers, given the option, never want to use it. They probably lost a game using the rule and would never use it again.

In the big major tournaments, the flip-flop should never be used in my opinion.
July 22, 2008
SSUSA Staff
1284 posts
The SSUSA's flip-flop rule is described at Rule Book Section 5.5(3) on Page 39, and has been mis-stated in this thread. The only two correct flip flop rule components are:

• Visiting team ahead by 10 or more runs after the 6th inning (or after the inning prior to the open inning in a time-shortened game); and
• The flip flop may be (only) SUGGESTED by the umpire and/or Tournament Director, and is employed only if BOTH managers consent. It is NOT mandatory at this time.

Although there may occasionally be valid reasons for a manager to withhold consent in Seeding or Round Robin games, where 'runs allowed' and/or 'run differential' tiebreakers could potentially be in play, such is not the case in Bracket games, where all that is required is a winner and a loser of the game. In those cases, good sportsmanship and game time considerations might be relevant in the consent decision process by the managers.
July 22, 2008
Brett
Men's 55
239 posts
The 'flip flop' rule was made mandatory in Champaign at the Midwest Nationals on Sunday. My team was the visitors and were ahead by 3 runs after 5 innings of play. We were made to stay in the field again only to watch the opposing team score 13 more runs in the last inning. I contend that a major level team should not be given 6 straight outs, especially when only a 3 run lead exists. This rule changed the outcome of the game in my opinion.
July 22, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
I did not state that this was SSUSA's rule but "one Assn's rule", It is NCSSA's rule. There was more to it but this was the main part withjout going iinto two other rules it referred to.
Guess we need to be really specific, & perhaps SSUSA will be specific on the equalizer and ratings as well. Fair is fair, sometimes, right?
July 22, 2008
the wood
1086 posts
If you don't like the rule you do not have to concede to it. We refused to do so in Carson City (SSUSA) in 2006. The umpire wasn't overly thrilled with me but we played the game in the normal way.
Our reasons for not doing it had nothing to do with sportsmanship.
BW
July 22, 2008
bashbro1
Men's 60
266 posts
Hey check this version of the flip-pity-flop-pity (the pity rule) rule that happened to me in a tournament in Northeastern Washington state a few years ago. Not only did the umpire invoked the rule before the “open” inning (this case end of the 5th inning), the home team (us) was ahead 15-5 not the visitors, which meant we lost a time at bat and the kicker was the Ump allowed “6” outs in their one turn at bat without clearing the bases as he thought that was the rule to save time and allow them to catch up like a catch-up-rule!!!

We (the home team) not only lost a time at bat, and we never really flip-flopped cause we batted in the bottom of the 7th just as the home team would anyway, but NOT in the bat in the bottom of the 6th. The visitor was able to score 9 runs in the 6th and 7th innings combined with 6 outs and since we fell behind in the 7th we only got 3 outs to catch up but lost the game by one run 18-17 in a quarter final game.


Box score:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
--------------------
0 1 1 2 1 4 5 18
5 0 5 3 2 x 2 17
July 22, 2008
ShaneV
Men's 55
382 posts
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 --------------------
0 1 1 2 1 4 5 18
5 0 5 3 2 x 2 17

You won 17 to 14 Art!!!
July 22, 2008
TexasTransplant
Men's 70
420 posts
In our league in Richardson, TX, if the visiting team goes up by 12 in the open innning, the umpire stops play, records the number of outs and any runners on base, and the flip-flop takes place in the middle of the inning. Should home team catch up or goes ahead (which hasn't happened yet), the visiting team would resume its at bat with the same number of outs and base runners as before the flip-flop,

The flip-flop is mandatory.

The rule causes so much confusion everytime its invoked, that any possible time savings is lost.
July 29, 2008
UMP IN GA
15 posts
HELLO ALL
IN OUR LOCAL LEAGUE HERE IN GA. WE JUST STARTED TO USE IT AND IT HAS WORKED WELL .. WE HAVE A 65 MIN TIME LIMIT FINISH THE INNING AND PLAY ONE MORE THAT IS OPEN .. SO THE FLIP RULE IS ONLY USED WHEN THE TIME HAS RUN OUT IN THE NEXT INNING .. AND THAT INNING IS OPEN INNING NO MATTER WHAT INNING IT IS OR THE SEVENTH ..AND REMAINING INNINGS IF IT GOES 8 9 10 11 INNINGS .. IS HAS HELPED KEEP THE GAMES ON TRACK WITH GAMES AT 1 HR TIME SLOTS .. NEVER USED IT IN ANY TOURNEYS AROUND HERE BUT THE TALK OF USING IT AT THE PEACH STATE TO KEEP THINGS IN LINE DURING THE DAY ..

JESSE
July 30, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
I really don't like the rule for a couple reason (at least in out league)
A traveling league last year we traveled 35 miles for the longest distance we have to travel in our travel league.
We have 8 teams all from differant areas. It was set up real nice until the cost of gas took over.
Anyway we were up by 18 runs, no time or run limit. The other team wanted to flip flop the 7 and 8th inning, we play 8 innings because of the travel, some times it seems like a double header. I didn't want to do it because I just got in some subs the last 3 innings and all of them had not batted, so I declined. Must have pissed them off they came back in the last 2 innings and stole our thunder by beating us 31 to 30, 1 of our 2 loses that year.
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