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Discussion: BAT AND BALL RESTRICTIONS

Posted Discussion
Oct. 18, 2004
stig 52
Men's 50
46 posts
BAT AND BALL RESTRICTIONS
I have been involved with senior ball for the last three years and the biggest problem I see other than ratings is bat restrictions and ball types used at tournaments. I would like to know if you are in favor of restricting bats and using good balls or would you rather use any bat and use low core and low compression balls? I'll start with my opinion. I believe that composite bats are the big problem. The reason bat companies went to composite is because they had gone as far as they could with metal and all bats were close. The composite has opened up a can of worms and allowed companies to come in and charge big money for bats that don't last and forces softball associations and tournament directors to do what they have to to keep games scores down. They start messing with the ball. I would rather play with a good ball and bat restrictions than good bats and hit socks. The big boys hit a 40 and 36 core ball and while that sound like a joke I can remember when the idea of hitting a 44 core ball was a joke. I think all composite bats should be banned as shold all 44 core balls.
Oct. 18, 2004
socal52
Men's 50
12 posts
It's not the Bat companies that change the rules.. they produce a bat that meets the ASA or NSA etc. standards.. and then they change the rules of play.. All bats with a approval that meet the standards set forth when they are made should be legal period! We can get to the bottom of this by saying its profit driven..and who puts money into there pocket. I agree that this is complete bull with the bat changes over the last few years, but we as players need to help change this by going to tournaments that use the bats & balls we want! I remember when wooden bats were used then came the metal bats and everyone was saying it would ruin the game! Metal or alloy bats can be brought up to composite hitting ability with a little more development by the big companys.. But this is strickly dollars driven compsites are 10 x cheaper to make the metal bats..take away the compsites the next great bat will be a metal bat at twice the cost as the composites would have been.. Bottom line set a standard and leave it! grandfather in all bats that were approved in the past with the stamps., have the balls meet the needs of the players and weather conditions and lets play ball!! Sorry about the long post but I just needed to say it!
Oct. 18, 2004
jrhunch
85 posts
instead of screwing us with bat restrictions sen. softball should take care of the fields better.the batters box in cheyenne(vegas)took 2 of our players out of the tour.with badly twisted ankles and made all of our players uncomfortable.in deleware we were playing in the major plus .on the prelims we were using good balls.during batting prac. before the real games started we were hitting for the fences in cf.when we got to the game we were suddenly hitting crap balls.no one in the tourn. hit 1 out.inc .damiens and thermco. in the meantime we were tossing back balls hit by the aa teams.does this make sense?we were moved up to play super majors,pd. all that money to get there and then shafted.its not so much the bats as it is the balls and disorganization.whatever balls are cheaper are used.get all the money you can from the seniors.i have been to 3 40&over usssa worlds and do not need a card and have never checked in.ill.players are be used.why the concern about the50&over.MONEY?sorry about the but why are we taking this crap?
Oct. 18, 2004
TerryDarc
22 posts
I'm in the minority b/c I think guys are trying for an advantage they didn't really earn - say like working out, studying their batspeed, learning how to hit.... I'd much prefer using wooden bats with whatever core/compression would give us a reasonable game. You could a lot more cheaply juice the ball up and keep the same hitting distance. This cuts out the bat mfrs. but who cares. Probably be a lot safer for us pitchers, too.
=Terry=
Oct. 18, 2004
jrhunch
85 posts
dont want to be misunderstood.we were hitting mush balls in super major while the aa were hitting 47s.i would love to see wooden bats then it would be easier to rate teams but always remember that great players are great no matter the equip.better equip. makes some players look better and gives everyone a chance to hit hr.wooden bats would be safer for sure.i play in major 50s and only saw 1 shin injury the whole year and that was after the hrs were used.if the overlimit hrs were walks instead of outs it would help cut down injuries.needless to say the equip.should be the same in all of sen.softball especially the same during the same tourn.it is unfair to change balls from 1 game to the next without notification.in deleware there was another field behind us in lf but the officials didnt want to chase the balls.the field behind us in cf kept hitting the47s into our field.no balls were lost so why werent they the same?sorry for the rant.they were on sat.
Oct. 19, 2004
LOBO
Men's 50
39 posts
The fields at Lakeland for the FHC were in terrible shape. The mounds were not placed correctly and there were plastic 12 inch sprinkler covers 4 feet behind the mound making it difficult to back peddle after pitching.

The grass was not cut and the infields were soft and bumpy and somewhat dangerous for infielders.

The use of the UII and 44/375 is not an issue with me as the Major and Major + teams were hitting homeruns and I do not recall any pitcher being injured because of the UII.

The scary part of my statement is that Lakeland is the home of the State Championships this December and someone needs to prepare the fields properly so nobody gets injured including the sprinkler behind the mound.

Overall, it has been a fun year and very competitive softball. I would like to see the field conditions improve to ensure the safety of the players.

Oct. 26, 2004
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
It's going to get worse. ASA is most likely going to have a new list out for next year. And as we all are aware of that means other associations will "follow the ""leader"" " and follow suit.
Don't ask me how I know but that is the word.
Oct. 26, 2004
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
I've never met anyone in softball, never talked with anyone in softball in 7 years who favors inferior bats or balls.
Not one person in person has ever intimated to me that it's a good idea to play with compromised bats and balls.
In Tracy, all serious teams stopped going to their tournaments because they refused to use a decent ball.
Why all the fuss.
There's always going to be abuses.
Let the standards alone for bats and balls and let's all adjust and play the game.
I've broken bones in softball before during and after Miken.
It's just like dealing with umpires.
There's going to be mistakes in judgement.
It's all just a part of the game,
from umps to bats to balls.
Publish one standard with rules and severe punishment for abusers and let's play ball.



Oct. 27, 2004
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
Part of the Tracy thing is the fields there were built by the contractor who built the homes around them. He has a 5 or 10 year control option on the park and what is used there. Too many balls, good balls, were reaching the homes around the park (mikens were used) So the city had to control it or loose the park. Thus the ban of the Ultra and poor balls.
Oct. 28, 2004
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
taits, that may be the reason in your area but thats not the case here in Ga. It's hard for me to think of even one field that I have played on in the last 10 years where there is a house in danger of being hit by a ball. I'll expand that to Montgomery, Johnson City, Auburn, Kenner, Auburndale, Charleston, Myrtle Beach and others. I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't true, thats just not the case everywhere. The reason that our local complex gives is insurance. They say their insurance provider insists on the ASA bat list.
Oct. 30, 2004
Joncon
285 posts
As long as we all hit the same ball, I don't really care what cor/compression it is.

Most leagues in AZ have gone to 40/375 and the number of HR's has dropped dramatically but the ball STILL comes off the bat at a good clip.
Nov. 2, 2004
taits
Men's 65
4250 posts
NEW ASA BAN LIST INCLUSEDS:
Blur advanced B-I Da Bomb
Evo Dark
Catalyst Synthesis
Synergy xxl Warrior
Synerge+ Freak+
Rt reloaded Max 120 bal & end load
TZ Reborn pst137
Wicked insanity Quad xtra

the other s as well on last list. Some of these may of been on it.
Nov. 16, 2004
LOBO
Men's 50
39 posts
I purchased the new 2005 EVO which is legal for Senior Softball. After my last Sunday night's game the umprire showed me a list of illegal bats for ASA and the EVO was on the list. The strange thing about the list was it was dated January 2004 which was before the bat even went on the market. The list consisted of at least two pages of new bats that are illegal for ASA and other associations. "BUYER BEWARE". Make sure that before you purchase a new advertised bat that you know up front if it is eventually going to be on the banned list for ASA(I only player Seniors so I already new it was not legal for ASA) Pretty soon we will be using wood bats because most of the aluminum or composite bats will be illegal. Unless the players start pushing to make these bats legal the bat companies will dictate where you can play instead of the players.

Is this a silly question but is there a Softball Union or group that has any power to force the ASA,etc. to allow these new bats to be legal?

What if teams stop going to National Tournaments because they are unhappy with the bats they can use? It does not make sense to "soften" the ball to avoid too many homeruns.

Any thoughts?
Nov. 16, 2004
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2581 posts
Lobo, Check out the Slow Pitch Softball Players Union at this website:
http://pub183.ezboard.com/fslowpitchsoftballplayersunion1240frm2

If you have a global ezboard login you can post there.
Nov. 22, 2004
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
We just played in the SSUSA winter world and used the Ultra bat and a 44 core ball. it was a very good tourney. the people that going to hit Homerun hit them and the rest of us basehit. Made it the old game of softball fun again.
Nov. 22, 2004
fran44
Men's 55
40 posts
JAH #4 how did you do in the tournment and in what category and level did you participate in?
Nov. 22, 2004
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Fran44
We tied for 2nd because it rained out our division. We took a pickup team down of some AAA player and Major and some of JAH's we played better good after the rust came off our bones. But we played in the Major Divison very good and equal level teams. Very well ran touney.
Nov. 22, 2004
armyho211
Men's 60
52 posts
jah4, must have felt great to swing the ultra ii again. i dont understand how come the associations dont just allow the ULTRA II and use a 44 core ball. i think the majority of the senior players want to use it. this website ought to set up a survey and record the players votes pro and con. it would be interesting to see the results. if the associations are concerned about insurance, i believe all or most of of us are covered by personal insurance . most of the injuries are going to occur in running the bases,running into each other, stepping on the bases wrong,stepping into potholes in the outfield,etc. there have been some reports of players being hurt by a batter using an ULTRA II, but is it true? seems to me that terry hennesy reported a few months ago that he was not aware of any injuries caused by a better using the ULTRA IIi. i think the players ought to decide what bats to use, after all, without the players, the associations are out of business. my opinion, thanks. frank
Nov. 22, 2004
jah#4
Men's 55
551 posts
Frank
It was great to swing the ultra again. the 44 core ball make it a good game like it used to be, the big boys hit it out and the rest was basehitters. I pitched and not any different from the other legal bats and the 47 core ball. Terry got something the other organization won't have MONEY, His tourney grew from 52 teams last year to over 90 this year, not many can say that. had ISA umps that ran a very good tourney. 1st class fields and the teams where equal matched for good games. see you next year have a good winter
Don
Nov. 24, 2004
stig 52
Men's 50
46 posts
The Ultra II should be banned. This bat is 20% better than any other bat. There is no way this bat is legal. I don't care what some test says. It is not good for softball when 90% of the players use this bat when it is legal. A player should not have to spend $300 for a new bat every 700 or 800 swings. Miken will do and pay anything they can to keep the bat legal because the rest of their bats are garbage.
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