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Discussion: MVP

Posted Discussion
Aug. 27, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
MVP
just something i wanted to ask some of you players and coaches.why is it that when you go play tournaments , the PITCHER a lot of the times get overlooked for and ALL T, OR MVP ? We have one of the BEST senior picthers out there and after every tournament playerss are ask to vote for their ALL T AND MVP, almost all of the time our picther doesn't even get noticed, and without him we would never had been as good as we are ! We won the Winter World back to back and the TOC this year and without him, we would of NEVER DONE THIS !!! why is that? I would like to go on record and thank our pitcher Gary Bowles.You never go unnoticed by me !!Thanks for all your hard work and dedication to our team. Tanel360 / Bud light of Austin !.
Aug. 27, 2008
J3
208 posts
Being a pitcher, I believe its because most players don't think its a skill position. That you are there just to keep the game moving. In the upper brackets, with all the homers, the pitcher is considered a batting practice pitcher. Now with the new rules about hitting back at the pitcher, there will be even less respect.

It doesn't matter that you figure out a batters weakness now and then and throw the ball there so they pop up or : keep it out of the parking lot". Its a lack of respect for the position. That's my two cents
Aug. 27, 2008
Dbax
Men's 60
1283 posts
Our pitcher on the Tucson Bandits earns All Tourney awards all the time. His is one of the best around and also leads the team in hitting. Maybe you should ask your coach or team members or whoever selects your All Tourney players why your pitcher never gets it.
Aug. 27, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
Dbax,
our pitcher is the coach / manager !
Aug. 27, 2008
Dbax
Men's 60
1283 posts
Maybe your team should decide on how these awards are selected. I coach a womens team and we go by top batting averages depending on now many awards the team is getting. There is no second guessing the decisions. I have brought it up that we could award one of the All Tourney's for best defensive player, or all around player, but they are ok with top batting averages.
Aug. 27, 2008
BruceinGa
Men's 60
2667 posts
I can't wait till I see Einstein's response to "In the upper brackets, with all the homers, the pitcher is considered a batting practice pitcher."
Aug. 27, 2008
salio2k
Men's 60
548 posts
Dbax............We won a tourny once where the pitcher only gave up 7 runs in two games against the 2nd place team. In my eyes, clearly the MVP. The team went by batting average for All Tourneys. I was getting pissed off as they read out the names.......fortunately, the pitcher was one of the top 5 batters.
Aug. 27, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Thanks for the cue Bruce.
One of the things I regret the most is not having it together yet
to do a DVD on 6-12 arc pitching.
There's just so, so much involved and a lot of stuff carries over from hardball.

For example,
Not only do most hitters, even the best one have tendencies and ways/balls they prefer to swing at or fields they mostly hit to
but ball movement and late movement just like in fast pitch
are critical to getting even the best Senior Softball hitters out.
That's why a "for real" knuckleball will give even the nastiest long ball hitters
difficulty ESPECIALLY in a homer dome, with the wind blowing out.
There's no getting around the vulnerability of the pitcher when using a good bat/ball
combination but those of us who, like me, don't really know any better
wouldn't change it for the world.
No guts, no glory.

Further, some of the master pitchers around like
A/C Linde, Mickey Hughes, Billy from Evolution
l'il Ray from Redwood City just to name a few
don't want me letting you guys know
that or how we can work you.
We'd much rather you kept on being clueless about all the stuff
we're looking at and are trying to do to you.
"Guess, I just had a bad day"
will keep you from realizing what might be in fact be the major cause,
the pitcher.

And remember, when teams are even
it's defense that wins big games
and it all starts with the pitcher.

And when I first was taken to major plus with the 55 Old A's some years ago
and looked around, it was the capability of the pitcher/defender that separated
the level of play.
If you just throw strikes to major plus hitters
they will light you up like a pin ball machine and hit 800+ off you,
just like they do in BP.
Figure out how many runs a team batting 800+ would get
before they get a third out
and remember that's only an average figure.
It doesn't account for defensive errors or offensive momentum
which can happen at any time.

Somebody stop me and
enough for now.
Got to save something for the DVD.
Aug. 27, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
The pitcher, like on the Old A's all those years they were unbeatable and that being
AC Linde is almost always the MVP when you realize how important defense
is and the role that defense plays in winning closely contested, Big games
whether they get selected All World or not.
Aug. 27, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
to Dirty,
You post was removed, but yes, balls can have "late movement', like a curve or other hard ball pitchs. Some of my knuckle balls move side to side but isn't noticed or that doesn't start until it is at near the peak of the arc, so I'll side with einstein on that.
Aug. 27, 2008
Randak
Men's 55
3 posts
It is nice to see that some players realize the important role the pitcher has in the outcome of the game. I have had my share of AT awards, but it is very dissappointing when a player gets a AT award for just BA. No defense, no running of bases just hitting. One of the best and cherished comments I have received was the sincere compliment from my team member who said"we did as well as we did, because of your pitching". Also, as a pitcher you can lose focus, not feel the groove and definitely handicap your team. Everyone plays a role in the success, it is just good for a team to spread the awards around some, if deserved. It is truly a skill position and I feel it is truly "respected" by most senior players. Keep on keeping on.

55 major plus
Aug. 27, 2008
Joncon
289 posts
I'd give the pitcher MVP simply for standing 50 feet away from a 100 MPH projectile.
Aug. 27, 2008
Joncon
289 posts
Crap...no edit feature.

You know what I mean.
Aug. 27, 2008
BONES
Men's 60
93 posts
TAITS
i like when the winds blowing 90 mph------from 3rd to 1st and the pitcher looks like a machine ---hitting the plate almost every pitch--------Brentwood----lol--------NICE JOB THAT DAY SCOT--U WERE IN TYHE GROOVE
SB
Aug. 27, 2008
BONES
Men's 60
93 posts
Pitchers
einstein--i agree with you on comment --------for us how dont know any better and you wouldn't change it for the world. no guts no glory---the only thing i would like add is-------between you and me ------i kinda LIKE it when they come up the middle---lol---keeps your head in the game----and you BEST BE PAYING ATTENTION---and yes i been hit between the eyes ---1 hopper off front pitxhing rubber---OUCH saw stars and looked ugly and defoarmed for about a week--at least uglyer then i am already-----balls up the middle dont bother me at all------TC
SB
Aug. 28, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
one last thing about this, we tried handing out a piece of paper to the players to write down their mvp and all t's , can you believe some of the players wrote their own name down ! there is ni I in TEAM !!.THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS AND STAY SAFE , PLAY HARD AND ENJOY THE SPORT !
Aug. 28, 2008
Lefty
Men's 65
485 posts
Most all the teams I play with if you don't have one of the top on Base Batting Average you're just out of look. As you know most half the team runs for somebody. It's just the way it is. You bat 600 play great defense and run for your self. You don't have a chance if you don't bat at lease 700 or higher. Life is not fair but this is the way it is in the real world of softball. As for me it makes me work a little harder to try to reach 800 every tourneyment. I don't care about the MVP it just makes me feel good to hit that hight. I'm just an average ball player trying to be the best that I can be. It's a team sport one guy can't win it all. I just do the best that I can do if it's not good enough I'll just try a little harder the next time. I love this game and have a great time playing it at my age.
Aug. 28, 2008
cpope
Men's 60
160 posts
I think pitchers are very important and they hardly ever get an MVP or a All Tournament. I also think they should get more praise than they do. They are way underated. Players who don't think they are skilled players should try and pitch a game when the HR's are gone.
How for those who think I am a crying pitcher, you got it alll wrong. That's one job I would never want. Being at SS is close enough for be to the batter.
Now if you are a BP pitcher and just try to get the ball accross the plate you are not deserving. But a good pitcher, high, low, inside, outside. Learns the batters weakness and uses it. And most of they field there positions.
A good fielding pitcher lets the ss and 2b move toward the hole more.
Yes a GOOD pitcher is worth his weight in gold or at least All Tournament.
As for how the All Tournament should be chosen:
Say you finished 2nd and had 5 All "T"

Highest BA/OBP (we just use obp as ba, its a truer way)
Most rbis
Most runs scored
Best player who made all the routine plays
A player who was close to the above but has not already
receive a AT.
If a MVP, (please don't give it to the player who made the great play or hit the best in just the last game. I see that way to much) MVP is for the whole tournament not just one game

Remember this game is surely a TEAM game. Takes all 10/14 to win and/or lost.
Sorry didn't mean to go on and on.
Aug. 28, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4387 posts
cpope:
Good post.
Aug. 28, 2008
hitt2
354 posts
Tait -Cpope
Good conversation (chatter)
I too agree the pitcher is key to every game. He determines the flow of the game from the on set. I'm not a pitcher, but an outfielder. When the pitcher is recognizing batters strengths and weakness it helps me to remain focused. I love the first strike pitcher as he's telling the batter I'm ahead of you now find what you think is your pitch. Or he looks into the outfield as to the direction he expect the ball the travel. Good hitters already know this and battle. But that newbie or overly aggressive hitter is apted to make a mistake that could determine the outcome of the game. The pitch determines fly balls, grounder or yard. Hitting the middle is part of the game, I go middle with 2 strikes and the pitch is at the front of the plate itís the only place for it or you pop it up. Iím trying to help score runs, sorry. I know there are those that go up the middle with authority anytime or count, thatís their style, not saying its right or wrong. However the majority of players like to use the entire field of play. If one of your pitchers hasnít received an AT selection during a teamís season of victoryís there is something wrong. We can stand on the field in our positions but if we donít have a pitcher itís not a game. This past weekend we won the game because the other teamís pitcher lost it and they were using position player to pitch. I know there are those of you saying if we donít hit we donít score. Yeah, yeah its part of the game, however they hit well like us and the game still went extra inning. Having seen the other teamís hitter our pitchers set up the win with 3 fly balls allowing us to win in the bottom half. If they had a true pitcher it might have been a different outcome.
Aug. 28, 2008
#6
Men's 60
1183 posts
hitt2 and cpope , thanks for the reply. This is exactly how I feel. Good luck to the both of you and your teams.
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