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Discussion: Up the Middle

Posted Discussion
Oct. 29, 2008
DMac
Men's 60
186 posts
Up the Middle
I'm a dead pull singles hitter who lives in the 5-6 hole. When I play teams familiar with my hitting, I'm lucky if I get 15 feet between short and third, so I gotta go middle.
Sometimes a pitcher will throw me outside. If you throw a dead pull hitter outside, where do you think the ball is gonna end up.
I've never tried to hit a pitcher in my life, but I have buzzed a few. I'm sorry, but I think the defense and the pitcher himself have to take some responsibility for balls hit up the middle.
Oct. 29, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Your correct on the post.
Only problem I see is knowing the batter. I doubt most pitchers remember any let alone all batters have faced. One great thing is for those catchers who do remember to help the pitcher out.
I sure don't remember where they hit most often. Exception being those I play against 2\3 times a month or more.
Oct. 29, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I am sure not all but you would be surprised how much a savvy pitcher will remember.
Oct. 29, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Learn to lift the ball a little. Poor excuse for hitting up the middle on purpose.
Oct. 29, 2008
DMac
Men's 60
186 posts
Fred, where did you get the idea that I don't hit line drives. I'm a tomahawker who doesn't follow through on my swing, so fly balls are almost always an out for me. The middle for me is anywhere from the shortstop to the second base bag. This can be a pretty big area when he is squeezing the 5-6 hole. I try to keep the ball away from the pitcher mainly because I have had too many hits taken away by good fielding pitchers. As much as I would like to have complete control over where the ball goes, in reality I don't.
Look, I'm not asking for batting tips here. All I'm saying is that pitcher safety shouldn't be completely the responsibility of the offense.
Oct. 29, 2008
Stretch14
Men's 50
189 posts
If you don't like to play a position, play somewhere else.
Oct. 30, 2008
GT
Men's 60
162 posts
Pitchers don't remember? wow. A pitcher who doesn't have a good memory should be doing something else. Plus, just expect it up the middle everytime. If I play a new team once, I'll remember where a guy likes to hit. Your not going to be right 100% of the time, but a good/smart pitcher remembers batters preferences.
PS May I never see a screen placed on the infield in softball. Everyone have a great time wherever your playing the rest of the year.
GT
Oct. 30, 2008
southpaw
Men's 60
742 posts
I have been pitching softball for 34 years. I am working on 60 years of age; have played senior softball the last 5 years. In my estimation, "hitting up the middle" and "hitting at the pitcher" are 2 different things. Reasonable middle hits which do not endanger the pitcher are as much a skill as hitting the ball elsewhere.

Rarely have I seen ententionally hitting at the pitcher in senior softball. It happens way too often with the younger guys. I have even had it said to me: "You will not give me my homerun pitch, so I"ll just teach you a lesson." Juvenile and uncouth to say the least, very dangerous as well.

Personally, if even remotely, I thought that I could not control my bat well enough that I would in time hit the pitcher, I would seriously consider what changes were needed. Learn to hit opposite field with the outside pitch. Change my batting stance, etc.

Yes, the pitcher has a glove. Yes, he has weighed the consequences by choosing that position. Yes, accidents happen. But, it is awfully ludicrous to state that one should try another position when concern is expressed about not wanting to be injured when simply wanting to play a game one loves.
Oct. 30, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I don't see how that is ludicrous. If I cannot cover a wide receiver, I don't ask him to run slower so I can keep up. If I cannot slip a punch, I don't ask the other boxer in the ring not to hit me. If I cannot hit a curve I don't ask the pitcher to only throw changeups.

It is not your opponent's job to make you competitive, or even competent, it is yours.
Oct. 30, 2008
#19
Men's 60
252 posts
I am basically a "middle" hitter... I have never tried to hit a pitcher... The middle just happens to be where my strength lies... Most pitchers who know me are aware of this... Consequently they don't throw pitches that I can easily take up the middle... This message board has concentrated on bat control... What about pitch control?... Taking an area of fair territory out of play is ridiculous! #19
Oct. 30, 2008
southpaw
Men's 60
742 posts
Most people who choose to pitch at what ever level over a period of time are competent or they do not stay. It is the pitcher's responsibility to study batters--their stance, their positioning in batter's box, how they hit previous times, etc. Then they pitch accordingly--inside, outside, deep, high, low. etc. Good reflexes are necessary as well.

However, one must admit--to use one of Dirty's analogies--it is not a fair fight. It is slow pitch; the pitcher has a glove; the batter has a piece of metal in his hand that will probably hit a projectile approximately 120 to 150 mph.

Middle hitting is not the problem. It has been my experience over the years that those who are less experienced in bat control are the ones you worry about most in hitting the pitcher. Unless it is intentional.

My point about "ludicrous": admitting that one is less than competent in bat control--"I don't know where it will go" or blaming it on "The Pitch" is still a valid one as far as I am concerned.
Oct. 30, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
Dmac: I am just going by your statement of your problem.

southpaw: I agree with you wholeheartly. Up to a couple months ago I could locate the ball so I got very few balls hit back at me and the ones that were I knew when the ball left my hand that it was coming back at me.

I am a middle hitter up the RCF gap and with the middle fielder in our age group you have to learn to lift the ball. I rarely hit one back at the pitcher. Though I did in one game in Vegas against Fairway Ford. I must have tired or my blood sugar was high or something because I pulled 3 in a row back at the pitcher. They were all pitches that I would normally hit to RCF.

Pitchers and batters have bad days and there is nothing that can ge done about that.
But there are hitters out there that
Oct. 30, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
hey fred ya mean ol coot :):) what cha doing hitting the pitcher.hi whats up,i'm gonna be in the bershires for the t-day holidays(22nov - 1dec)how close to western mass are ya.
Oct. 30, 2008
DMac
Men's 60
186 posts
Southpaw: If, by your reasoning, not having 100% bat control or going with the pitch are not valid arguments, then anyone who has ever hit or almost hit a pitcher must have been trying to hit the pitcher.
Last year, in Burbank, they laid out chalklines 3 ft on each side of the mound. Any ball hit between the lines was a dead-ball out. First game, bases loaded, one out, batter hits a one hopper to the mound that the pitcher easily turns into an inning-ending DP. Uh-Uh. Rule states there is now bases loaded and two out. Next batter hits a bases clearing double. Burbank doesn't have that rule anymore.
Oct. 30, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
dmac thats why i don't care for that rule myself,or having a screen there.maybe a line drive,but never for a ground ball.and the line has to be of nature that the pitcher had no chance whats so ever of catching it,also it needs to be one that drills the pitcher not one that he went to field and miss it.you put a glove on(or make a reasonable attempt to field it) it fair game i say.
Oct. 30, 2008
Fred Scerra
Men's 80
542 posts
MadDog: I don't know. I think I felt worse than he did. He was getting upset and I don't blame him. That is something I never do. I think I can remember one other time doing that in a game a few years ago. I was trying to pull the ball and wasn't quite getting around. Last game I tried to pull ball on purpose.

Depends what part of Western Mass. I live in the Worcester area. Springfield is like 45 mins for me.
Oct. 30, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
yeah sure ya did fred :):),i'll be just south of pittsfield(sheffield ,ma).i'm getting there that friday 21st nov and leaving on the 1st of dec(i'm driving up from tx)will have all my stuff.only real days bad for me will be t-day and the 29th as that is my class reunion party.gonna try and see kevin at anaconda one day also.
Oct. 30, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Dog, but how do you define "had no chance". Too many pitchers don't try to give themselves a chance by not backing up, not geting in to a solid defensive stance when the ball is being hit, by seeming to be daydreaming out there, etc.

So the batters should be penalized in those cases? And we are going to leave this all up to the umps to determine? Just not a good rule.
Oct. 30, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
must be that timing thing again, you talk about, i guess i have to have you explian that so i can field 1.000 now.please enlighten us on how to pitch and field our position so we don't get hit by rockets that we don't see.must be some sort of timing that we need to use.
Oct. 30, 2008
hitt2
354 posts
Mad dog
Dirty doesn't have any intention of sharing with us his vast knowledge of the senior softball hitting or fielding. Most spectators are experts unto themselves.
Oct. 30, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
If you cannot see the ball, why would you ever put yourself on the rubber? You are just asking for trouble.
Oct. 30, 2008
southpaw
Men's 60
742 posts
Hey DMAC, I do not think your conclusion from my statements is a correct one. Accidents do happen--a misstep, timing, etc. I choose to believe that the vast majority of hitters, especially seniors, do not go into the batter's box with intention of hitting the pitcher. That is what my earlier comments supported.

However, I do believe that if someone comes to the conclusion that it is more than likely that a pitcher will be hit because the only competency possesses is "a dead pull hitter", then improvement and/or correction is required. The onus is on the hitter, not the pitcher.

Now, I am not for screens; I am not for lines dictating dead ball outs. I am for competency with hitters and pitchers and most of all, at our age using common sense, courtesy and respect. It is just a game and we all go back to our real lives on Monday after hopefully having a great weekend of softball.
Oct. 30, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
203 posts
as stated in a previous thread, we should consider making face/head protectors, shin guards, heart protectors mandatory for pitchers, safety first, and would not change the game.may not be perfect but it will take umpires judgement calls out of the equation (note problems at the WS). and could mute the suggestions of screens, removing a portion of the playing field. technology has also improved protection gear , LET'S USE IT !
Tomar77
Oct. 30, 2008
the wood
1096 posts
What a bunch of happy horsesh!t. The middle is part of the field... at least all of it except for the pitcher's box. Does a batted ball hurt the pitcher more than it hurts a 1B or 3B? I am not for hitting the pitcher because it could be an out AND it isn't my intent to hurt anyone. And I don't want anyone on our team to be a head hunter either.
DMAC - I share your feelings about 'the shift' and the results that come from it. This happens to me in our local Long Beach League and I still try to avoid the middle there because some of the pitchers are over 65. But I do not have perfect bat control (I'd bat 1.000 if I did) and sometimes it gets closer to them than I'd like.
Years ago, when we could slide into home plate, it wasn't cool for the catcher to totally block the plate because he needed to give the runner some part of it. If he didn't, any resulting injury was on the catcher... IMO, this is true today with the pitcher... if you don't want the ball going up the middle, don't make it so inviting... move an infielder in that direction. It is not ALL on the batter.
I've heard several guys say that the DBO isn't enough of a deterrent. It sure is for me... I'm not interested in wasting any 'at bats' on purpose, particularly to prove some type of point with a pitcher. Some of the same guys that are saying this (some but not all) are on record asking for hotter bats and balls. Puzzling is a good word for this paradox, IMO.
Of course, this goes both ways and we don't whine about rockets hit past our infielders/pitchers... unless we view it as a reckless pattern. We take the position that everyone out there is just trying to enjoy the game, do the best they can and not out to hurt people. If we have reason to feel otherwise, we'll react differently. We played the whole season with no incidents about this type of thing. One of our infielders and our pitcher were hit by rockets in the same night game by the same batter. But the batter didn't intend to do either and we moved forward w/o malice.
If it really is too dangerous to pitch in this game then we need to dump these bats in favor of some lesser ones... or make the ball less injurious. If neither of these choices seem viable, we ought to quit bull sh!tting ourselves about safety. IMO, we don't need to put the Eiffel Tower in the infield to protect a pitcher. although I do support using a screen in pre-season games when the sun is in the pitcher's eyes (if the ball hits the screen it's a DBO). But this does nothing for any of the other infielders. When the sun becomes a problem in a national tourney, postpone the game until it goes away.
BW
Oct. 30, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
Dirty
Posts: 221
If you cannot see the ball, why would you ever put yourself on the rubber? You are just asking for trouble.

see its that timing thing again,please help me with my timing so i can be the best pitcher there is.

wood i'm with you ,i guess,too much post to read.i pitch for the kids and don't have a prol as i do try to locate my pitches.the one thing i have noticed tho is that the batter will be sometimes up to 5' away from the plate(and also the walking the box) and that does make it hard on a pitcher since then you'll most likely try to pitch outside.make the umps enforce the box and eliminate the walker(the 2-3 stepper).
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"5' away from the plate"

How stupid are you?
Oct. 31, 2008
Norq44
58 posts
Gary, who are you calling "stupid" . Why do you insist on taking over every post on this board. You have now posted over 220 times as "dirty" and it's all the same crap. What makes you think that any of the real softball players that read and participate on this board are even remotely interested in your negative opinions? You come across as the softball guru and you don't even play the game.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
I was talking to mad dog, and anyone who thinks any batter is FIVE FEET from the plate has earned that.

I play, I play a LOT, I play roughly 130 games a year. I just choose not to spend upwards of $500 a weekend to play many times a few games against a few teams.

Keep protecting your tiny little turf, and pretty soon you will wind up with more obstacles in the infield than on a miniature golf course. Or get smart, understand the senior game has issues, and constructively work to fix them.
Oct. 31, 2008
Lecak
Men's 55
1012 posts
Gary I won't insult you like you do others but you ain't fixing anything through your posing on a senior message board, thats why I'm convinced your just on here amusing yourself. Pull up the list of contacts and look at the names the directors, league folks and in a small way the advisory board members that is where the change occurs not your posing about bats, miniature golf holes, protecting pitchers. You want change sign up for duty.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
My honest thoughts are that if I can stop the guys on here from constantly proposing more ways to ruin the game that would help to keep the game the way it was meant to be played.

No, I might not stop them but I can at least try to help them see the follie of things like screens and pitcher protection rules. And hopefully I can help them to see the hypocrisy of claiming to care about safety while insisting on special bats.
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Gee Gary J. Sommers aka Dirty et al, perhaps doing away with all perviously mentioned "fixes" to this and only use pitching machines with feeders and a remote for the catcher to use will improve it....not. One of the non mentioned "fixes" Then you could have a live ball situation if it hits the machine with no injury unless the machine breaks down...
Perhaps you should play next years 130 "games" as a pitcher to get a "feeling" for having been there.
I'd venture to say most tourney players play over 4 times that number of games a year. especially if you include their locat league games.
Start your own league, perhaps with wood bats and wiffle balls, maybe even kapok. Watch it grow. Wood bat leagues are around so your ahead already. Perhaps you can get in 216 games with around 561 players, hoping to become 2628 members in a few years. Watch it grow, or not. But good luck in it all.
Oct. 31, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
How stupid are you?
How stupid are you?
How stupid are you.
How dare you call anyone stupid.
And then defend it and yourself.
You are an abusive blot on this site
and should be removed once and for all,
again,
and never be taken seriously again
until and if you apologize to all of us.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
taits, I am surprised since you seem to have access to personal data about me that you don't know I have been pitching for 35 years. I speak from experience. And I am clearly not alone in this view.

NO special rules.

NO screen.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Over 520 games a year?????

Can anyone support this wild allegation?
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Joe,
He's an analysts. He's analyzing the softball world of "things", ANYTHING. The know it all guru of senior softball (Sorry Jim Carry).
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Actually "einstein" that was in the form of a question.

But I stand by the question. He was most likely either stupid to think some batter actually set up FIVE FEET off the plate, or he was stupid to see that and not immediately make the ump move the batter into the legal box.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Nice job of deflecting, boys. Keep advocating special bats while you act like you care about safety.
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
Almost every weekend and during thew week, league play, maybe one day a week off. Last about half that number and this year about 2\3 of that or slightly less. Fuel cost for diesel the primary reason for cut backs.
I'm sure there are some that played more than myself. I hope to get back more for next year since fuel is down somewhat now.
Yes, too bad you don't have a white picket fence to go with the white home.

As for the 5 foot thing, there are batters that run up to hit, and 5 feet is only 2 feet outside the box. I have seen even further out to start the "run" up. It's rare that starting outside the box is called by the ump, let alone having the lines there.
But your vast knowledge of 2 senior tournaments (national) a year apart 2006 & 2007 is incredible.
Stick with league ball, or actually play senior national tourneys. Share the travel and room cost to cut your expense. Now your down to half the 500, you say, it would cost.
The big real cost is airfare I find...I avoid it.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"Only" TWO feet???????

All of your tournament ball has not taught you the rules. You CANNOT take your stance outside of the box. NO, NO, NO! If a batter does that, and you don't call him on it, shame on you. Then you, or anyone else who allows it, are not the player you allege.

And the absence of lines is not relevant. Ever play on a field where the foul lines were gone? Does that make every ball fair because there are no lines to call "foul" based on? Of course not. Same here.

You sure you are as experienced as you say?
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
Oct. 31
Dirty
Posts: 230
"5' away from the plate"

How stupid are you?

must be that timing thing you keep yaking about but won't tell us anything,i guess i don't have any since you have it all.

also where were you when i did see this as to say i didn't see it.what tourney,park, state ,please tell me.

joe don't indulge the fat little rat,non playing idiot.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
IF (huge if) you saw a guy set up FIVE feet off the plate and did not get him moved back in, shame on you. Not something I would want to admit, over and over and over.....
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
Oct. 31
Dirty
Posts: 230
"Only" TWO feet???????

All of your tournament ball has not taught you the rules. You CANNOT take your stance outside of the box. NO, NO, NO! If a batter does that, and you don't call him on it, shame on you. Then you, or anyone else who allows it, are not the player you allege.

And the absence of lines is not relevant. Ever play on a field where the foul lines were gone? Does that make every ball fair because there are no lines to call "foul" based on? Of course not. Same here.

You sure you are as experienced as you say




i guess with my lack of timing knowledge in not asking the umpire about if the batter was in the box and getting he's ok type respnse, must have been the reason it was allowed.i'm still waiting for you to give me a viable reply to my timing question.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
NO legit ump will tell you that FIVE feet is okay. And if one does, then you are playing at some crappy place and should attend an event more befitting of your mad game.
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
can this timing thing be why the ump was not legit,especially since it has happen more than just 1 time (there's that word again).please tell me what kinda timing needs to be for an ump to be legit.he had the same uniform as all the other umps.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
No, it cannot be. And if has happened to you more than once you play with lousy umps more than once.

Do you not really know har long FIVE FEET is? Next time you play, measure out a legit five feet and then take your stance there and see if anyone notices or cares.
Oct. 31, 2008
taits
Men's 65
4403 posts
The players\teams do not hire the umps, or is that a new trend? Doubt it.
Umps just do not make the "Box" calls. Out of it, erasing it. Out of it included in front also.
Same for those who do not move out from behind the plate to see and make a call. Expecially in the 1 ump games. Some umps are very good at what they do. Some also talk on their cell phone, some do not.
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
i'm sorry for you as you have no timing as you say you have.batters boxes are 3' wide,2' more is not that much.so i guess my timing is off.
Oct. 31, 2008
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
According to research done by Danial Russell a prof. of applied physics at Kittering U. the pitcher has exactly .388 sec. to react to a batted from 50 feet away.There is a lot of research to back this up and I will not take credit for finding it.It was passed on to me by someone much smarter than myself.This is with the existing equipment being used by most sanctions including SSUSA.What this tells me is in less than a blink of an eye you could go from alive to dead .If any one would like to view a ton of research on this matter I would be happy to forward this to you as it was forwarded to me.you may contact me at usa50plus@yahoo.com another example of why we need to stay out of the middle.
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
i've seen that report also ray,and you only increase it very slightly by backing up.not a whole lot of time(oops that word again) for a pitcher there.
by the way did you go to huntsman games,bob w hit a ball there i think is still going.
Oct. 31, 2008
Norq44
58 posts
Gary,
In case you haven't noticed, this is a board whereby senior softball players who play a regional and national tournament softball gather to exchange things. When we find ourselves with a need for some help with our league play, we will contact you, since you are obviously the most knowledgeable local league player in the country.
In the meantime, maybe you could start another board, based on your considerable knowledge in league play. Your continuing inane banter about bats, balls, safety, etc, etc,etc. is redundant and boring. Your constant name calling and insults are something else.
Don Norquist
Oct. 31, 2008
Gekle BUilders
Men's 50
204 posts
Mad Dog I did not go to huntsman Salsa Jack (EH) took a number of our guys to huntsman to play with some friends of his from Oregon.I don't like flying so when possible I don't and with Phoenix the following week end I was kinda busy.

Thanks fo asking.
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
ahh so thats the connection,with butch's bulldogs.love that tourney,open rostered and all.just go and play.good luck next yr.
Oct. 31, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
So sorry Norq, I did not know there is a membership requirement. Though what you said does explain the extremely narrow views of most who post here, considering what a tiny percentage of all senior players travel around the country to chase the right to buy a ring.
Oct. 31, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
joe now please be calm,i'm still waiting on this timing thing and a mechanic to help me be able to hit 1.000.if we get mr knowitall banned i'll never be able to hit like him,or field my position as good as he does b/c i won't have any timing.
Nov. 1, 2008
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Mad Dog -
It'll be worth it.
Sorry,
Jano23
Nov. 1, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Hey Jano, where were you at batting practice today? A little rain and you're a no-show. What are you, made of sugar?
Nov. 1, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
RAIN,what you talking bout,it don't rain in sunny california :):)
ken was it your team that i went to vegas back in nov 05, where it rain and the summit going back to barstow was snowed in.smith was POC for me,(can't remember his first name)he played with OTL (55 AAA) last yr in phx.if it is i played SS for ya's up there,bob.
Nov. 1, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Mad dog, yeah, it actually rained a little out here today. I even heard thunder, something you very seldom experience out here. And all the taffy SoCalifornians were hiding in their houses or flipping their cars on the freeway, lol. And yes, you played with us (Basehawgs) in 05. Our 50 team was short-handed, so we combined the 50 and 55 Basehawgs and played in the 50 division and had a great time. A lot of the same guys are the Double Nickel now, playing 55 major. By the way, that was Andy Smith that you remember, our local softball whore, lol.
Nov. 1, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Hey Dirty,
Did you ever think that maybe mad dog was engaging in hyperbole (exageration to make a point) when he said "5 feet of the plate"? Come on, I've seen you argue enough in here to know you're better than that. to belabor that small point. I'm sure you get what he was trying to say.
Nov. 1, 2008
BigLou
26 posts
Einstein
Why do you always insist on banning Gary. He allows you to make your arguments. He doesn't seem any less civil than others I've seen on here. He just disagrees with you for the most part. You should welcome that challenge to make your points.
Nov. 1, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
Big Lou,
It's more than obvious up to and including him having been banned
from a number of sites including this one.
You don't let someone play poker who doesn't have the ante.
He's not coming from the same place the rest of us are.
He's entertaining himself at our expense.
He's told me so.
He likes to press buttons.
Get under people's skins.
He's told me so.
He has no opinions he cares about vis a vis our sport.
He just reads till he finds something he can and wants to say NO to
or someone he wants to goad or name call.
He's a trouble maker and has hit the soft underbelly of this site
and it's showing it doesn't have the stuff to deal with him.
It did when it banned him but then it lost its resolve
and only made him stronger.
He doesn't mean well, Big Lou.
He's not trying to be positive.
He's not trying to contribute.
Read his stuff and it will become obvious.
And I won't put up with or support sneering and disrespect
in any association I belong to.

Big Lou.
Next time say who you are if you expect me to respond to you.
Nov. 1, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
I think most will agree that if a pitcher gets a batter on a full count and on his next pitch he leave's it hanging outside one of 2 things may happen it's either a good backside hot or it coming right back up the middle.I have'nt played senior ball but one yr. and loved everytime I got the chance to play but me being young I played the outfield.But I love pitching, when I play with the young guys I pitch because they have young guys for the outfield.I guess what I'm trying to say is in my opinion I think it's respect more than anything else that stops so much hitting up middle in senior ball or I would like to think so.Any batter can come up with a full count and ypu know with the next pitch your going to swing and if your thinking pull and it's outside pitchers beware!!
Nov. 1, 2008
Jano23
Men's 50
95 posts
Ken, you were at batting practice? There must be a tournament coming up! :-)
Jano
Nov. 2, 2008
Ken
Men's 55
462 posts
Yeah, I had to get out of the house; my wife was ragging at me... something about changing a light bulb.
Nov. 2, 2008
WOW
197 posts
I can't believe you guys STILL read any post from "dirty". What a waste of your time.
Nov. 2, 2008
Duke
Men's 60
729 posts
Pitchers,

I read a few of the posts, and listened at the manager's meeting about the new rule about hitting the ball up the middle. The idea of protecting a pitcher from injury is great, but the rules here are not. The rules are too foggy and unclear and left to the umpire to decide. I have 2 suggestions, one I like and the other one I do not. I will not discuss the one I like, because no one will buy it. It also is just another rule that penalizes the offensive player, while the defensive pitcher may be injured or dead. Nothing accomplished here.

The one that I will discuss, is the one I do not care for as a pitcher for myself, but is the most protective for the safety of the pitcher. There should be no rule left up to the umpire to decide on this. We have enough of those. Just like every ump has there own strike zone. Make it a requirement that every pitcher wear a face guard of his choice, a chest guard, and shin guards up to the knees(catcher shin guards are very flexible and do not hinder the players movement). With this rule, you can hit the ball anywhere you like, and play the game for the spirit of the game as it was meant to be.

I have to say with all of these rules, it was a boring position to play(pitcher) this past weekend, as only about 5 balls were hit up the middle in 7 games, and my hands were being kept cool with those altered softballs. I welcome anyone to hit the ball up the middle, and no appologies necessary. I just want to play softball as I did when I was younger, not home run derby and not telling me where I can or cannot hit the ball.

Andy Smith,
Double Nickels,
Manager
Nov. 2, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
I would sure wear the equipment if it was mandatory...but if they ever put a screen on the infield my playing days are over.I think the equipment thing would be a good thing.I have in fact bought all the equip. for that purpose but dont have the nerve to wear it....lol
Nov. 3, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
203 posts
andy,glad to see your response. to the issue. good to get back to the subject this thread is suppose to be dicussing' can not believe how certain people keep interruping, how about we all stick to the point of the thread! anyway as i stated on this posting and on another posting under tournament ,i strongly support using protected gear andy you being a pictcher i respect your opinion can't understand why more pitchers don.t support and push for this suggestion. i wonder are we just blowing smoke? or are we serious in protecting our pitchers. catchers wear protective gear protecting themsevles from hard throwing pitchers and foul balls, seems to be commen sense to put on protective gear to keep from getting injured from a screaming line shot off a techology enhanced bat. i have a number of friends who are pitchers i do not want them hurt or any other pitcher for that matter! my ? is, the above idea can be instituted at once and will not alter the game we all enjoy playing why not give it a try???
tomar77
git-r-done
Nov. 3, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
firebird, that was a very strange post. So you don't have enough conviction, and need someone else's rule to get you to do something you want to do?
Nov. 3, 2008
Nancy Allen
Men's 55
616 posts
I think that a mask and a cup should be recommended equipment but not mandatory. The new rule is only making the umpires make unsure judgements and bad calls. Let the umpires call strikes and outs because they can get in enough trouble just doing that.

It might just be me, but I have been to more senior tournaments where someone had a heart attack than had a pitcher seriously injured with any model of bat. I know of 2 shortstops that passed away on the field this year. So for safety, I think that a defibrillator on-site and people trained in CPR is even more important than bats, balls, and gloves. To this end SSWC has done a very good job in having the equipment there and getting folks trained.
Nov. 3, 2008
mad dog
Men's 65
3958 posts
firebird i have a game face but haven't used it,just doesn't feel compy to me.if it was made mandatory yes i would use one to pitch.i have seen another mask type helmit i think i would rather use,its by worth and protects the whole head plus face and is light weight and has air holes for ventilation.
tomar not sure if it needs to mandatorybut if senior ball makes it then i'll comply.i've been looking into shin guards also,as that is the hardest place(down by the ankles) for me to field at this time.
we also need to look into making sure there is a good contrasting back ground so the ball doesn't get lost in it and making almost impossible to see sometimes.i've have that prol more than not being to field a ball that is hit to hard.
Nov. 3, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
203 posts
Mad Dog good point on the need to have contrasting background built into the safety equipment.
tomar77
Nov. 3, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
the one I have is a hockey type helmet it gives plenty of coverage and it's fairly light also.It would take some getting use to but very doable I think.The knee guards I have are little league baseball type.so there short but fit tight enough they would'nt hender running much.
Nov. 3, 2008
firebird380hp
Men's 50
81 posts
yep you pretty much hit the nail on the head there Dirty
Nov. 5, 2008
kingofmen
8 posts
havent seen any post tourney comments about the sun being directly at field level for our 4;30 game at Rose Moffett Stadium,field#1. never again in the history of seniors softball should any teams be made to play there at that time. playing first base, i did not see one liner until it was 9 inches in front of me. and my pitcher had to blindly defend himself when 7 consecutive batters intentionally went direct middle to take advantage of the elements,which is o.k. but the game should never have been played under these conditions.as for the hitting middle rule-there is but one solution grasshopper---make the mound18"wide and any ball that goes through that 18" slot is an out. hit the pitcher inside the 6"rectangle---inning over.hey guys....at our age,everything we enjoy involves PAIN&PERIL!!everything we love involves possible pain,soreness or death.
Nov. 6, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
You must have seen it pretty well if you could measue precisely "9 inches".
Nov. 6, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Thank God for copy and paste, huh "einstein".
Nov. 6, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Emulating "einstein"??? Is that your idea of a good time?
Nov. 7, 2008
TOMAR77
Men's 55
203 posts
regarding fielding with the sun in your eyes. last year in vegas we had the same problem the sun was brutal our pithers, and 3rd basemans, could not see the ball, managers of both teams did not want our players playing in this dangerous situation the umpire took charge and delayed the game until the sun cleared and we could see the ball again. we appreciated that the umpire placed safety 1st. bottom line is speak out be reasonable come together and i believe we can do the right thing and protect our players, in these SUN situations.
tomar77
Nov. 7, 2008
einstein
Men's 50
3114 posts
You don't let someone play poker who doesn't have the ante.
Gary Sommers is not coming from the same place the rest of us are.
He's entertaining himself at our expense.
He's told me so.
He likes to press buttons.
Get under people's skins.
He's told me so.
He has no opinions he cares about vis a vis our sport.
He just reads till he finds something he can and wants to say NO to
or someone he wants to goad or name call.
He's a trouble maker and has hit the soft underbelly of this site
and it's showing it doesn't have the stuff to deal with him.
It did when it banned him but then it lost its resolve
and only made him stronger.
He doesn't mean well, Big Lou.
He's not trying to be positive.
He's not trying to contribute.
Read his stuff and it will become obvious.
And I won't put up with or support sneering and disrespect
in any association I belong to.
Nov. 7, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
Joey, when and where did I tell you squat?
Nov. 7, 2008
Joncon
289 posts
I didn't read all this mess but........

1'st and 3rd basemen are much farther away than the pitcher and can stand wherever the please.

The tournament directors don't even THINK about the sun factor. They think about scheduling.

I have seen a lot of hitters stand 5 feet out. The box ends at 3'6" so legally, if you measure from his heels to the outside of the plate, it's 5 feet. I have never seen an ump tell someone to stand closer even though they were obviously "out" of the box.


Over 520 games per year? pffft, that's nothin. In my prime I'd squeeze in 700 plus.

Pitching against stong hitters = dangerous. Not my favorite thing to do. In a pinch, I'll do it but I'll whine until smeone takes my place.

Don't forget, it's recreational slowpitch softball. A girl's game played by old men :)
Nov. 7, 2008
Dirty
Men's 50
1375 posts
"I have seen a lot of hitters stand 5 feet out."

Then shame on you for letting them, though I am sure "a lot" is a gross exaggeration.

"Over 520 games per year? pffft, that's nothin."

Now that's funny. I suppose if you live where you can play all year it is possible, but that might be a strretch.
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